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  1. #26
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    I don't run my lights on flash unless there is really thick fog. They annoy me as well. I run a 400 lumen spot and a 900 lumen flood on the bars and another 400 lumen flood on my helmet. A few.people hafe complained about it being too bright but I'd rather they saw.me and got annoyed than not see me.

  2. #27
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    So just to be clear... you are already running a light on your helmet that is as bright as a standard car headlight, in flashing mode, and directing that toward motorists.

    Now you want the equivalent of a high output car headlight so you can run that in flashing mode, and direct that at motorists.

    It would be bad enough if it was a fixed light as there aren't any proper bicycle headlights with this level of output and proper optics but you want to put this on a swivel.

    And you wonder why you have no friends.

  3. #28
    Seņior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    I only run a white light on flash mode in bright daylight. If it's anything less than that, I run on steady beam.
    Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.

  4. #29
    Mmm hm! agent pombero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    So just to be clear... you are already running a light on your helmet that is as bright as a standard car headlight, in flashing mode, and directing that toward motorists.
    .
    Directed at them when the moment requires it, yes. The light is not angled at the horizon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post

    Now you want the equivalent of a high output car headlight so you can run that in flashing mode, and direct that at motorists.
    .
    Yup, when the moment requires it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post

    And you wonder why you have no friends.
    not looking to make friends with road users. Looking to come home safe.

  5. #30
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agent pombero View Post
    Directed at them when the moment requires it, yes. The light is not angled at the horizon.

    Yup, when the moment requires it.

    not looking to make friends with road users. Looking to come home safe.
    At what moment is it practical to blind other road users and would you feel comfortable if another cyclist did this to you ?

  6. #31
    Mmm hm! agent pombero's Avatar
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    Better seen than dead. I will tilt my head back to angle the flash into the horizon at every intersection I cross. This has stopped many cars from crossing my path. I am alive today because of the power of my Niterider. And yes, I have encountered many cyclists with lights as bright, even brighter, and I did not once feel blinded.

  7. #32
    vol
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    This thread gives you better and more "benign" ideas to be visible without being annoying. If you use some fancy lights instead of ultra bright strobing lights you'll be noticed and loved; drivers will stop to watch you instead of cursing you.
    Last edited by vol; 11-20-13 at 10:04 PM. Reason: found thread

  8. #33
    Mmm hm! agent pombero's Avatar
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    Lol

  9. #34
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agent pombero View Post
    Better seen than dead. I will tilt my head back to angle the flash into the horizon at every intersection I cross. This has stopped many cars from crossing my path. I am alive today because of the power of my Niterider. And yes, I have encountered many cyclists with lights as bright, even brighter, and I did not once feel blinded.
    So you need a brighter light because ???

  10. #35
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    A car headlight is 1300 lumens so a car is putting out 2600 lumens on low beams. If you aren't over that, don't worry about it.

    J.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by vol View Post
    Maybe the 600 lumen was real spec, the 2400 lumen was overstated
    No. It's a Lupine Wilma and an honest 2400 lumens. It's no worse than a cars low beams. In fact, it's 200 lumens less.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    No. It's a Lupine Wilma and an honest 2400 lumens. It's no worse than a cars low beams. In fact, it's 200 lumens less.
    Not true at all, a cars low beams are specifically designed to *not* hit other drivers in the face with the majority of light.



    Now you're actively try to hit them in the face with it, and also making it blinking.

    Please post back if the cops start ticketing you like they should.

  13. #38
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agent pombero View Post
    I get equal amounts of love and hate from motorists/cyclists/peds about my beams.
    So you're annoying the crap out of 50% of the people who care to comment. That's pretty awful. Knock it off, would you? You're getting tons of signals that you're doing a bad thing, and you're taking it as a good sign. What's it going to take to get you to reconsider?
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by vol View Post
    This thread gives you better and more "benign" ideas to be visible without being annoying.
    Your link makes this thread worthwhile. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    Not true at all, a cars low beams are specifically designed to *not* hit other drivers in the face with the majority of light.



    Now you're actively try to hit them in the face with it, and also making it blinking.

    Please post back if the cops start ticketing you like they should.
    Do the math. The widest bike lights are probably about 25 degrees beam width. Cyclists are riding on the side of the road. That means that half their beam is going off road. It's still less than a car set of headlights. And, even then, if perhaps the car got directly in the headlight of the cyclist, it's only there for a very brief time.

    Furthermore, no car headlight is able to not get directly in the eyes of oncoming drivers. There are curves and hills that cause this to happen all the time And there are no accidents or problems from that since pretty much the beginning of headlights. We're all taught to not look directly at car headlights anyhow (duh) in driver training. Emergency vehicles and all sorts of other non emergency vehicles have high intensity flashing lights that ARE designed to be aimed right at you. And there are no problems from those either.

    So this whole thing is silly when put in a real world context. I'd not worry about it and I'd be glad I could see that cyclist.

    Like I said, I get compliments for being seen. No cop is going to stop me for being too visible. And I'm not blinding anyone who has either the slightest bit of common sense either.

    J.

  16. #41
    Senior Member jawnn's Avatar
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    You can't beat a truck tail light for brightnes: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...6#post16290196
    https://www.facebook.com/utilitybikeproject

  17. #42
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    My two cents; ( Concerning use of lights when riding on the road ) I only use my bright ( 1200 lumen ) bar light on slow strobe when it is full daylight and that only when I really think I need it. When the sun starts to set I use a Performance "Axiom" ( 70 lm on slow flash ) on the bars till I decide it's time to turn the main bar lamp on. When I do that I move the Axiom to the front fork and switch it to "flicker" mode. This gives me a two POV visibility from the front. The flicker from the Axiom is enough to garner attention from on-lookers but does not interfere with what I see when riding. My bar lamp ( when dark ) is usually in it's mid-mode ( 500 lumen ) unless I'm going downhill at speed. I use a XP-E torch on the helmet ( ~ 230 lm ). I can use this in strobe mode when needed but when I do it is only for a moment.

    I absolutely see no need to use a 1800 lumen lamp for strobe on a helmet. On the bars?...maybe. That said I see no reason for it unless you are in a really hazardous environment. Night time?...that is a completely different story. I can see no reason to run something that powerful on flash mode on the helmet or the bars at night. My concern is not so much that it will blind people you pass, my concern is that the bounce-back reflection of the lamp WILL BE QUITE DISTRACTING TO YOURSELF. Nope, at night the little mini-flashers do one heck of a job and the bounce back effect is minimal.

    For the record I'd like to say at this point I've still never seen anyone riding a bike at night using a lamp ( strobe or steady ) that was so bright that it blinded me. I also drive for a living at night and drive through areas known for bike commuter traffic. Nope, the only lights that ever blind me momentarily are some high output car lamps. I don't know what they're using but some people have some DAMN bright headlights.
    Last edited by 01 CAt Man Do; 12-01-13 at 05:36 AM.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Do the math. The widest bike lights are probably about 25 degrees beam width. Cyclists are riding on the side of the road. That means that half their beam is going off road. It's still less than a car set of headlights. And, even then, if perhaps the car got directly in the headlight of the cyclist, it's only there for a very brief time.

    Furthermore, no car headlight is able to not get directly in the eyes of oncoming drivers. There are curves and hills that cause this to happen all the time And there are no accidents or problems from that since pretty much the beginning of headlights. We're all taught to not look directly at car headlights anyhow (duh) in driver training. Emergency vehicles and all sorts of other non emergency vehicles have high intensity flashing lights that ARE designed to be aimed right at you. And there are no problems from those either.

    So this whole thing is silly when put in a real world context. I'd not worry about it and I'd be glad I could see that cyclist.

    Like I said, I get compliments for being seen. No cop is going to stop me for being too visible. And I'm not blinding anyone who has either the slightest bit of common sense either.

    J.
    Your post is like a 5 year old child trying to describe how to drive a car.

    There's a strong argument that you can put out a decent amount of light from a handlebar light while riding on the road, because you're off to the side, and there's a lot of ambient light.

    But everything else you wrote is non-sensical. Real 3,000 lumen lights have much wider beams than 25 degrees. A blinking, flashing, helmet light is not getting into someone's eyes for a short period of time - it's in their eyes the entire time you're looking anywhere near them. Your claim that that there are "no accidents or problems" with headlight beams getting into peoples eyes is laughable - why do they bother designing car beams with a cutoff then? Emergency vehicles expect you to pull off the road when you see them - that's why they don't have a problem flashing into your face. And people do actually hit emergency vehicle all the time, despite their plethora of flashing lights. There's also a reason why it's illegal to have those lights on your own car.

    Arguments about what may or may not be blinding from a handlebar mounted light - are completely irrelevant to the actual topic of a blinking, strobing, helmet mounted light. By your claims, we should all have blinking, strobing, flashing lights on all of our cars because it would have no adverse affects and we'd be able to see other cars better. Of course, things aren't like that, because it would be a bit of a nightmare to try to see where you're going.

    A relatively bright light on your handlebars is a whole different thing than a bright, strobing, flashing light on your helmet. Especially in the upper lumen range where you get a very wide beam.

  19. #44
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    ..Your post is like a 5 year old child trying to describe how to drive a car....
    ( above comment directed at JohnJ80 )

    Daaaaaamn!

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    Your post is like a 5 year old child trying to describe how to drive a car.

    There's a strong argument that you can put out a decent amount of light from a handlebar light while riding on the road, because you're off to the side, and there's a lot of ambient light.

    But everything else you wrote is non-sensical. Real 3,000 lumen lights have much wider beams than 25 degrees. A blinking, flashing, helmet light is not getting into someone's eyes for a short period of time - it's in their eyes the entire time you're looking anywhere near them. Your claim that that there are "no accidents or problems" with headlight beams getting into peoples eyes is laughable - why do they bother designing car beams with a cutoff then? Emergency vehicles expect you to pull off the road when you see them - that's why they don't have a problem flashing into your face. And people do actually hit emergency vehicle all the time, despite their plethora of flashing lights. There's also a reason why it's illegal to have those lights on your own car.

    Arguments about what may or may not be blinding from a handlebar mounted light - are completely irrelevant to the actual topic of a blinking, strobing, helmet mounted light. By your claims, we should all have blinking, strobing, flashing lights on all of our cars because it would have no adverse affects and we'd be able to see other cars better. Of course, things aren't like that, because it would be a bit of a nightmare to try to see where you're going.

    A relatively bright light on your handlebars is a whole different thing than a bright, strobing, flashing light on your helmet. Especially in the upper lumen range where you get a very wide beam.

    Let me know when you get your driver's license (car) and have gotten some good experience at driving at night. I think that will make this discussion go a lot better.

    Please check Lupine's specs. The Wilma has a 26 beam with it weighted towards the center for hot spot. It's right on their website. And it's an honest 2400 lumens (2800 lumens this year).

    J.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    ( above comment directed at JohnJ80 )

    Daaaaaamn!
    No kidding. Phew!

    J.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Please check Lupine's specs. The Wilma has a 26 beam with it weighted towards the center for hot spot.
    How far down the road does it take for a 26 degree beam to spread out to include the eyes of oncoming drivers -- 45 feet or so?

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Let me know when you get your driver's license (car) and have gotten some good experience at driving at night. I think that will make this discussion go a lot better.

    Please check Lupine's specs. The Wilma has a 26 beam with it weighted towards the center for hot spot. It's right on their website. And it's an honest 2400 lumens (2800 lumens this year).

    J.
    I'm 33 and have been driving since high school.

    The Lupine does look a little narrower than the other options I've seen, but still wide enough to hit a driver in the face across a lane of traffic from about 20 feet away. This is a Lupine, followed by other bright lights -

    Lupine Wilma 6 - 2340 Lumens
    http://reviews.mtbr.com/lupine-wilma...ights-shootout


    Light and Motion Seca 1700
    http://reviews.mtbr.com/light-motion...ights-shootout


    Niterider Pro 3000
    http://reviews.mtbr.com/2012-bike-li...der-pro-3000-2


    Here's another automobile headlight on low beam -


    Here it is on high beam -


    (from http://www.hotrodhotline.com/headlig...s#.Up0pz8RDtXY)

    You can pretty clearly see how on a car headlight with it's regular low beams it's putting much less light above the horizon than a wide beam bike light does.

    Just like your previous post, all of this completely misses the actual topic point though. You want to argue that your light is fine when it's on your handlebars and on steady, that's more debatable but I'm not arguing either way, as long as you're using it on the road and not on a bike trail. You can probably point it (relatively) down and get rid of a lot of flood light.

    But the topic is - what if you take that light, put it in blinking mode, and put it on your helmet? That's just being an obnoxious pain in the ass.

  24. #49
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
    ....But the topic is - what if you take that light, put it in blinking mode, and put it on your helmet? That's just being an obnoxious pain in the ass.
    Well....Yeah but it all depends on how you use it IMO. If you're only using it to get through a really hairy intersection of high speed traffic ( think multi-lane road with high speed traffic with both high speed exit and entrance ramps...)...I can see using a high powered strobe to get me through an intersection like that. Even more important if there are construction areas that cut off the shoulders.

    Also keep in mind that even if someone were so inclined to use a 1800 lumen helmet light mounted on strobe most people who are driving ( and looking head on ) are going to be past the "annoyance zone" within a matter of seconds. Even so if something is that bright and annoying you just look away. John was right about that and yes I was taught that in drivers ed as well.

    I should also add here that I have ( on a number of occasions ) had to follow emergency response vehicles through slow moving traffic. If I can deal with "their" strobes flashing in my face ( and believe me the newer ER vehicles can have multiple white strobes coming off the rear ) I can deal with some cyclist riding with a super strobe for 10 seconds or so. Using something like an 1800 lumen strobe on a bike/commuter path though would be inexcusable.

    Anyway, life is full of minor annoyances. Guy with super strobe on helmet (?)...if you've dealt with what I have while driving to make a living, dealing with a person with helmet strobe is just going to be an interesting curiosity. ( then again I'm a cyclist who loves flashing lights so perhaps I'm biased )
    Last edited by 01 CAt Man Do; 12-03-13 at 05:21 AM.

  25. #50
    Senior Member Gallo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    So you're annoying the crap out of 50% of the people who care to comment. That's pretty awful. Knock it off, would you? You're getting tons of signals that you're doing a bad thing, and you're taking it as a good sign. What's it going to take to get you to reconsider?
    About the same on this thread but I am sure that makes you happy.

    wow
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