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  1. #26
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anga View Post
    ^^ A good assumption can help and a bad assumption can hurt--hard to argue with that.
    The point is it is still an assumption and you cannot conclude based on an assumption!!
    Au contraire; Human beings cannot function on a day to day basis unless we utilize the mental processes of logic. Sense we cannot know the future for certain we make assumptions ( based on things previously learned ) that allow us to proceed. People assume and conclude both wrong and right things everyday. No one is right about everything and thankfully no one is wrong about everything or else our species wouldn't have survived on the planet for so long.

    Riding a bicycle on the road requires good survival logic. The more information and experience you have on bicycling and road safety in general the better off you are going to be. Still, even if you utilize all the best safety devices available for bikes and are well educated about "how to safely ride a bike on public roads", you might still get run down by some dim-wit in a motor vehicle. If you're in the wrong place at the wrong time usually you won't know about it till "AFTER" the crap has hit the fan.
    Last edited by 01 CAt Man Do; 12-27-13 at 02:03 PM.

  2. #27
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    And, here I thought we were discussing just about horns and not survival of the human race :-)

  3. #28
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anga View Post
    And, here I thought we were discussing just about horns and not survival of the human race :-)
    Indeed we were. As such the two are very much linked...ie...Logical progression; Horns > leads to increased bike awareness/safety > leads to keeping one's self alive. The better the horn, the better the chances of survival when bicycling on the road. Alas, not everyone really cares about such matters. Such is life.

    Personally I currently don't use a horn on any of my bikes. Then again I don't ride in urban areas with heavy urban traffic and lots of busy intersections. If I did I would most certainly want one that I "knew" was going to get heard inside an enclosed vehicle from at least 100 ft. away. Add to that it also needs a remote button that I can have very near my hands so I don't have to remove my hands from the bars to activate the horn. Without easy access to the button having a loud horn would be pointless.

    ...And speaking of horns; Here's a funny story about horns that I just remembered while writing this post:

    Back in the day when I was taking "drivers ed"; Before I had enrolled in "drivers ed" I had never gotten behind the wheel of a car before. Heck, I didn't even know that turn signals turned themselves off automatically after you made the turn. ....anyway, while driving the D.E. car every time I made a turn I kept hearing a horn blast away. I had no clue as to who was blaring the horn. Finally after having this happen a number of times I made note of this to the instructor who then told me that the steering wheel had a horn wire mounted to the back side of the steering wheel that went around the entire steering wheel! The horn I was hearing was mine! Craziest set-up I've ever seen. To this day I've never seen another car/truck/van..etc..with a set-up like that...thank God for that.

  4. #29
    Senior Member Winfried's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cplager View Post
    I'll be very interested to hear what the OP ends up with. I've been thinking along the same lines as it may be just like the Hornit, but with a better sound.
    It looks like using car horns is not a good idea because they 1) pump up too much current and 2) are too heavy/bulky on a bike.

    I don't know anything about electronics, but what about this:
    • a light and compact li-po battery
    • a tiny MP3 player just to play the sound of a car horn
    • an amplifier
    • a loudspeaker


    ?

    If someone here knows about loudspeakers, how big would it have to be to play a sound file loud enough to be heard by drivers?

  5. #30
    The Recumbent Quant cplager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
    It looks like using car horns is not a good idea because they 1) pump up too much current and 2) are too heavy/bulky on a bike.
    What about using (two) motorcycle horns?
    http://Charles.Plager.net
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  6. #31
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    One old codger around here installed 2 fog horns off ships on top of the camper shell on his truck

    And has a air-compressor+ tank to fill to power them..

  7. #32
    Senior Member dougmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
    If someone here knows about loudspeakers, how big would it have to be to play a sound file loud enough to be heard by drivers?
    To work properly, speakers need to have enclosures, and they're a lot larger than the speaker itself. You won't be able to make such a system that's as loud as a horn that's not significantly larger than a horn.

    If you want the sound of a car horn, the smallest and cheapest way you're going to get that on a bicycle is to use a car horn, or maybe a motorcycle horn if they sound sufficiently car-like. The current draw is easily handled by even a modest (2000 mAh, 3s, 10C or better) R/C lipo battery.
    Last edited by dougmc; 01-04-14 at 03:53 PM.

  8. #33
    Senior Member Winfried's Avatar
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    Thanks Doug for the info. I'll order a 20C 2000 mAh lipo pack and take it from there.

    -----------
    Edit: Found an article "Putting A Car Horn On Your Bicycle!"
    Last edited by Winfried; 01-03-14 at 04:46 PM.

  9. #34
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
    Thanks Doug for the info. I'll order a 20C 2000 mAh lipo pack and take it from there.

    -----------
    Edit: Found an article "Putting A Car Horn On Your Bicycle!"
    I think that "Screaming Banshee" horn you mentioned in the OP is the way to go if you insist on mounting a car or motorcycle horn.

    Personally I think the Hornit bike horn would be sufficient but it could be better if they incorporated some sort of "tonal fluctuation" rather than just the steady monotone. Make it "user programmable" with a choice of tone patterns and you have a product that might be more appealing.

  10. #35
    Senior Member Winfried's Avatar
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    The problem is that the Hornit doesn't sound like a car, so drivers just don't react accordingly.

    Looks like the Split Screamer + a lipo battery could do the trick for a total of about 2lbs/1kg.

  11. #36
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    After upwards of a year's use in the midst of Boston drivers I've got to say that the Hornit is not as consistently effective as I'd like. You do need to "lay on it" and if you've got time to do that, you've probably got time to stop.
    Any horn is going to need to be an adjunct to, not a replacement for, common sense and good judgement.

  12. #37
    Seņior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    Nothing that is reasonable to carry on a bicycle is close to an air zound.
    Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.

  13. #38
    Member aidzbelty's Avatar
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    This looks promising, but it still is in pre-order so I'm not sure:

    Loud Bicycle | Car horn for bikes

  14. #39
    Senior Member bconneraz's Avatar
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    so after reading this thread, I bought an Airzound on ebay last night. Any of you have any pictures of how you've mounted yours? As usual, I'm over thinking everything in an effort to make it trick.....lol. I don't want the bottle to simply hang from the frame, and I don't want to waste a bottle cage as I use 2 bottles most of the time. maybe a small handlebar bag for the air bottle....I didn't see a lot of good pics doing google searches, with the exception of a couple recumbents.
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  15. #40
    Seņior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aidzbelty View Post
    This looks promising, but it still is in pre-order so I'm not sure:

    Loud Bicycle | Car horn for bikes
    That thing is ginormous and fugly. Probably pretty heavy too. Also it's been in "pre order" for over a year now.
    Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.

  16. #41
    Member aidzbelty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    That thing is ginormous and fugly. Probably pretty heavy too. Also it's been in "pre order" for over a year now.
    That depends on the person, but that's just how I prefer my horn - ginormous. Besides it isn't on how it looks like, it's how you use it.

  17. #42
    Seņior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aidzbelty View Post
    That depends on the person, but that's just how I prefer my horn - ginormous. Besides it isn't on how it looks like, it's how you use it.
    Well, it's also about carrying something that big around that you'll use for 3 seconds a year.

    I like having a horn, but I've gone entire years without blowing mine, and to date I haven't hit a situation that the horn fixed that I couldn't just avoid too. I know those situations exist, but I don't think a horn would fix it either for me - in cases I've experienced where I most want to blow a horn, I don't because I'm too busy hitting brakes and steering to hit a horn button, even if it's right next to my thumb.

    For the airzound I'll put up with it, but I don't fancy carrying around an extra pound or two and significant drag and even more significant ugly just in case.

    If I lived somewhere where a horn was useful even once a week, I'd feel differently. But even in the car, heck, I don't think I've blown a car horn for 3 or 4 years now.
    Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.

  18. #43
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    Well, it's also about carrying something that big around that you'll use for 3 seconds a year.

    I like having a horn, but I've gone entire years without blowing mine, and to date I haven't hit a situation that the horn fixed that I couldn't just avoid too. I know those situations exist, but I don't think a horn would fix it either for me - in cases I've experienced where I most want to blow a horn, I don't because I'm too busy hitting brakes and steering to hit a horn button, even if it's right next to my thumb.

    For the airzound I'll put up with it, but I don't fancy carrying around an extra pound or two and significant drag and even more significant ugly just in case.

    If I lived somewhere where a horn was useful even once a week, I'd feel differently. But even in the car, heck, I don't think I've blown a car horn for 3 or 4 years now.
    I was thinking the same thing just the other day. In a real emergency situation you'll be too busy braking/avoiding to have time to fiddle with a button, even if it's close to your hand. Sure, it'd work great for those moments when you have enough time but in those cases you will also usually have time to stop if needed as well.

    Regardless I'm glad to see someone offer a horn loud enough for people who need it. According to the video the complete system weighs 23 oz.
    It is big so it's not going to be something that everyone will want.

    I still think something like the hornet would work but there needs to be some improvements. I noticed recently that many times both police and ambulances use a high pitched tone that is pulsed ( or varied ) to get them through traffic. It sounds nothing like the normal siren and I see them using this feature more and more. I figure if the hornet horn had a varied menu allowing for different varied pulse or warbles it might actually work better. Varied tones attract more attention in the same way that flashing lights draw more attention. If it works for emergency vehicles it could work for cyclists.

    Another idea I had would be to have a Bluetooth voice activation set-up for the horn so in a real emergency you could just "Yell" and the horn would go off with tonal pattern/duration preset by the user.

  19. #44
    Newbie jonathanl's Avatar
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    Hey all - Jonathan here the guy who's behind the Loud Bicycle horn.

    Definitely sad that it has taken this long for us to get going with the manufacturing. No one has ever put a car horn in such a small package before so we've faced (still facing) a few surprising challenges.

    If you think its fugly you should have seen it before Chris Owens re-did the industrial design! lol. Yeah its also heavy but the benefits outweigh the costs for a lot of urban commuters.

    Glad to read your comments, let me know if you have specific questions.

  20. #45
    Senior Member bconneraz's Avatar
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    First, thanks Winfried for starting the thread and asking the question; I'm now the owner of a new Airzound that arrived yesterday. The first thing I noticed after it was unpacked, was just how light the whole system is. I run mustache bars, so I got a little creative on the mounting, and the location seems to be perfect. This thing is friggen loud. Stupid loud. It's awesome. On my commute to work this morning, I had no real reason to use it (which is always a good thing) but that didnt stop me from trying it out just to see how effective it will be in traffic. I don't think there will be an issue hearing me...

    I still need to figure out how I want to carry the air bottle, but for now, it'll occupy one of my bottle cages until I figure it out.


    Last edited by bconneraz; 04-11-14 at 10:17 AM.
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  21. #46
    Senior Member Winfried's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonathanl View Post
    Hey all - Jonathan here the guy who's behind the Loud Bicycle horn.
    Looks like you're close to shipping, great :-)

    The Kickstarter page says that "the project was successfully funded on January 13, 2013.": Out of curiosity, what technical issues did you have that kept the product from being shipped earlier?

    Quote Originally Posted by bconneraz View Post
    I'm now the owner of a new Airzound that arrived yesterday.
    I stopped using the Airzound because 1) it didn't work in the rain or when it was cold, and 2) the volume knob broke after just six months.

    As for building one's own bicycle car horn, there's the issue of weight (li-po battery + two-tone horns + relay + switch + wires) and not getting fried when it's used in the rain.

  22. #47
    Newbie jonathanl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
    The Kickstarter page says that "the project was successfully funded on January 13, 2013.": Out of curiosity, what technical issues did you have that kept the product from being shipped earlier?
    The most major one was when the injection molded parts had different sound qualities than the 3D printed parts we prototyped with. I describe that problem in this video. Another problem was with the button connector which used to be right on the horn housing like this, but in tests the huge vibration from honking would wiggle the connector right out. We moved the connection point to the cable outside the housing and now it works great (horn photos here and below).


    Quote Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
    I stopped using the Airzound because 1) it didn't work in the rain or when it was cold, and 2) the volume knob broke after just six months.
    The Loud Bicycle horn is crazy, I've ridden it in through tropical storm Arthur last month. Here is a video showing how water resistant the bike horn is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
    As for building one's own bicycle car horn, there's the issue of weight (li-po battery + two-tone horns + relay + switch + wires) and not getting fried when it's used in the rain.
    Yeah, car horns are pretty robust but protecting a high powered LiPo and the button is the tricky part. A friend of mine had success putting all the electronics inside a sports water bottle. Then mounted it naturally in the water bottle cage. To charge he simply unscrewed the lid. I'm not sure what he used for a water-resistant button though ...
    Last edited by jonathanl; 07-31-14 at 08:15 PM. Reason: extra [/quote] snuck in there

  23. #48
    Senior Member Winfried's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonathanl View Post
    Yeah, car horns are pretty robust but protecting a high powered LiPo and the button is the tricky part. A friend of mine had success putting all the electronics inside a sports water bottle. Then mounted it naturally in the water bottle cage. To charge he simply unscrewed the lid. I'm not sure what he used for a water-resistant button though ...
    Thanks for the infos.

    I know someone who uses a lead-battery to power his GPS for long rides on the bike:
    batterie.gps.jean.daniel.jpg

    I wonder if this couldn't be done with a li-po battery to shed some weight.

  24. #49
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    About the "Loud" bicycle horn; Certainly sounds loud enough. Ugly it is but I figure if you ride in an area where you feel "that" threatened it would be an alternative worth considering. Another way to make the horn more consumer friendly would be to make it multi-functional. Perhaps consider including a good lamp into the build or including a voltage power-down regulator with multiple ports, one for your typical 8.4 volt battery lamp and one ( or more ) outputs for USB. My bet is that if included those features would help sell the product...( but WTH do I know ).

  25. #50
    Senior Member Winfried's Avatar
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    +1. A USB port would be really useful to charge a smartphone while riding.

    As for "if you ride in an area where you feel "that" threatened": It's simpler than that. There's no way cars in traffic or a truck operating will hear a dring-dring, so it's either an AirZound or the LoudHorn.

    A few months ago, I could have been run over by a truck backing up... if I hadn't had the time and space to get out of the way quick. It's beyond me why trucks still aren't required to have a camera in the back.

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