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  1. #51
    Senior Member dougmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    There is so much BS in those clips that if I was setting in the jury
    Of course, any such jury probably has no cyclists on it at all, not just because cyclists are greatly outnumbered by motorists, but because one of the sides would have probably used a challenge to get rid of any cyclists who did make it.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    Now about this commonly used name for the folks who ride without lights. I've never heard it. Care to share?
    Ninja.

    (And people who ride the wrong way in traffic are salmon, since we're talking about the names we give people.)

  2. #52
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougmc View Post
    Ninja.

    (And people who ride the wrong way in traffic are salmon, since we're talking about the names we give people.)
    Yup. There are also ninja salmon which may be the worst of the lot.
    Stuart Black
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  3. #53
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oronzous View Post
    That is YOUR logic. I'm pretty sure that if you remove reflectors from ninja's bikes, they won't go and buy lights.
    Some of the ninja's are going to ride dark no matter what...you just can't cure stupid. But without reflectors, many of the (unintentional) ninjas would probably not ride at night. Self preservation kicks in at some point.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    Well I read over some of the clips from the transcripts. There is so much BS in those clips that if I was setting in the jury I would be thinking the whole time, "This is such BS. The guy ( on the bike ) ran into a car making a bad turn. If you're going to sue someone you sue the people responsible for causing the accident". Yes, I agree with you, Mr. Johnson could have sued the CSPC. However if they did that they probably would have lost. That's because government agencies can afford to hire expensive lawyers who would undoubtedly spend tons of our money to Cover their ...butts
    Well, governments have sovereign immunity so they can't be sued unless they want to be. They don't need a ton of money for CYA.

    I agree that Mr. Johnson should have been held at mostly culpable for his actions. I would also argue that since Derby was following CSPC regulations, they shouldn't have been held culpable. But I also see the point of the plaintiff's case. A complete reflector kit could lead someone to think that it is sufficient for night time riding. Why have it and why does the CSPC require it if the reflectors don't provide sufficient warning? Any person of reasonable intelligence can clearly see that the reflectors are inadequate but too often people aren't being reasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    Well, of course they have to use lights. If they don't the 2 tons worth of metal they are riding in can kill *innocent people. ( * other than [ but not excluding ] the operator of the vehicle. ).... If a cyclist doesn't use a light it is the cyclist that gets killed. Rarely in any bike/automobile accident is the motorist going to be the one to get killed ( regardless of who has lights and who doesn't ).
    My point was that cars come with lights as standard equipment. They have since around 1920 because cars are used at night. You cannot buy a car for street use that doesn't have lights on the vehicle from the factory. I, personally, don't want bikes to have lights as standard equipment because the lights would be incredibly crappy...just look at the lights that came on 1950's bikes for examples. But the reflectors that are added to bicycles are bandaids at best and are incentives to ride without active lighting at worst. I have reflectors on my bike for the simple reason that they are required by my state's laws. I don't depend on them for anything other than to cover me if I get hit and I need to file a lawsuit. I don't want to give ammunition to a cleaver lawyer who could get my case thrown out because I didn't have the proper reflectors.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    Likely you are right. Just remember even if you are completely decked out in lights it doesn't mean someone won't hit you. It increases your visibility which increases your chances of not being hit but there are never any guarantees.
    I agree that there are no guarantees. But my chances of avoiding an accident are much better with active lighting than with passive lighting. I also subscribe idea that, when it comes to bicycle light, if it can be done, it can also be overdone. I throw enough light in front of me and behind me that people in cars wonder what is coming at them. If they confuse me for a train that is off the tracks and think twice before pulling out in front of me, so much the better.
    Stuart Black
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  4. #54
    I STILL miss East Hill :) Rollfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    ...and they don't work if light doesn't fall on them. There are lots to situations where a reflector isn't going to have anything to "reflect". If you are coming to an intersection and the car is at 90 degrees to the bike, the reflector is going to be useless. Angled intersections are going to do the same. In fog or snow, the light can't travel very far and even straight in front of the car, the reflector can't reflect the light back. If the reflector is dirty, it won't reflect.

    On the other hand, laziness isn't an excuse. Every state law that I have looked at requires a front white light. Some require a reflector as well but all of them require active lighting for the front. Some, like my state, require a reflector for the rear but not an active light. Because of this, I carry a red reflector but I only do so because the law requires it. It's useless and I would rather have a light required but that's going to take legislation to change.
    I've never seen too many pitch black places. especially in an inversion. If you are in such a place you might be more concerned about bear repellent and a firearms permit.
    Quote Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
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  5. #55
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    ....I agree that Mr. Johnson should have been held at mostly culpable for his actions. I would also argue that since Derby was following CSPC regulations, they shouldn't have been held culpable. But I also see the point of the plaintiff's case. A complete reflector kit could lead someone to think that it is sufficient for night time riding. Why have it and why does the CSPC require it if the reflectors don't provide sufficient warning? Any person of reasonable intelligence can clearly see that the reflectors are inadequate but too often people aren't being reasonable.
    Yet the lawyers for the plaintiff sued the LBS. I figured they were only able to get so much money from the guy that actually hit the cyclist so they decided to broaden their horizons. Small businesses carry insurance. Lawyers know that. They also knew that it was useless to sue the CSPC so they went after the people who had no say in the matter whatsoever. Poor buggers, they must of felt like a deer caught in the headlights. ( YOUR SUING ME FOR WHAT! )... I liken this type of thing to the expression, "Shooting the mailman". If the mailman brings you a letter informing you that your wife is leaving you it makes no sense to shoot the mailman in an attempt to rectify or change the outcome. This also applies to the repo man but you get the idea...Just the guy in the middle, minding his own business, doing his job.

    So much for this subject. Think I'll step out to the local McD's, buy some coffee, spill it on my crotch and then sue McD's because ...well,..it's was just too hot. Doesn't matter that coffee is suppose to be hot and that it was my actions that caused the spill I just want to get rich.

    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    ...I have reflectors on my bike for the simple reason that they are required by my state's laws. I don't depend on them for anything other than to cover me if I get hit and I need to file a lawsuit. I don't want to give ammunition to a cleaver lawyer who could get my case thrown out because I didn't have the proper reflectors.
    Hummm....You know, I never thought of that. Good point. Then again if you keep a video of your bike deck out with full lighting all you have to do is show that to the judge/jury and they should understand that you have more than what is normally required. A lot can be done with video presentation.

  6. #56
    Senior Member dougmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    I liken this type of thing to the expression, "Shooting the mailman".
    The term shooting the messenger is much more popular.

    The repo man is a lot more involved than the mailman. He knows what he's doing, is an integral part of it (if the mailmain doesn't deliver your letter -- your wife has still left you) and in fact if you shoot him it'll actually change things ... for a while.

    So much for this subject. Think I'll step out to the local McD's, buy some coffee, spill it on my crotch and then sue McD's because ...well,..it's was just too hot. Doesn't matter that coffee is suppose to be hot and that it was my actions that caused the spill I just want to get rich.
    Your conflicting smilies are confusing me. Which part are you saying in an ironic way?

    (Because the first part isn't ironic. It *was* too hot, and there's a lot more to the story than we're usually told. (Or if you don't like videos, here's a written article, but with fewer details.)

  7. #57
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougmc View Post
    The term shooting the messenger is much more popular.

    The repo man is a lot more involved than the mailman. He knows what he's doing, is an integral part of it (if the mailmain doesn't deliver your letter -- your wife has still left you) and in fact if you shoot him it'll actually change things ... for a while.
    ...which brings into mind another old saying, "Out of the frying pan and into the fire". As you said, shooting someone will change things. In this case, the wife gets everything ( including the sympathy vote, even if she was the one that was at fault for cheating on you ) and you get life behind bars ( or a needle ).

    Quote Originally Posted by dougmc View Post
    ...Your conflicting smilies are confusing me. Which part are you saying in an ironic way?
    All of it. Very few places now can you get a really hot cup of coffee. A lot of places have switched to the large ( unheated ) urns. The coffee sits in there and starts to cool immediately.
    Some places like 7-11 at least have microwaves that allow you to reheat the coffee but this is an extra step. Royal Farms is my favorite. They have urns with heating elements and really good ( hot ) coffee.

    Yeah, McD coffee ( was/is ? ) super hot. I remember buying it back in the day when I was younger. Worse tasting coffee I ever had but yeah it was super hot. Just because it's now suppose to be 10 warmer I really don't think it will make a difference if it ends up on my crotch or in my face. A dangerous product needs to be handled carefully. This is where "Personally responsibility" comes into play. If you buy a ***, load it and shoot your own foot it's not the ***'s fault or the person that sold you the ***, it's your fault. ( same basic principle )

    I like my coffee hot. If somehow I spill it on myself ( through no fault of anyone else ) and burn myself I'll deal with it....without a lawyer.

  8. #58
    I STILL miss East Hill :) Rollfast's Avatar
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    I hate coffee and tea and somebody elsewhere grossed me out and lost my ear telling me that milk is mucus. More milk or diet Dew, thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
    They can't fix expansion joints, because they expand.
    Smile at Miles with a ROLLFAST!

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