Weatherby

A google search of "garmin 800 problems defective" returned nearly 20 million hits.

Yes, I am the only one

"garmin 800 freeze" only yielded a quarter million hits.

Overcoming the lack of an adequate user manual and terrible default software settings is one thing, freezing up and puking all over itself is another.

Are you a Garmin employee?

njkayaker

So, you can do a mindless google search.

But you have no idea what those results mean.

19,700,000 hits. (I wonder if Garmin has sold anywhere near that number of Edge 800's!)

The first page is supposedly the "most relevant". So, let's look at what some of them actually talk about.

Looking at the first result I see.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...65788261,d.cWc

It's talking about an issue that was fixed by replacing a dead battery and problems with sensors (in the Vector pedal).

Looking at the fourth link I see:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...65788261,d.cWc

It's talking about heart-rate monitor straps.

Looking at the seventh link I see:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...65788261,d.cWc

It's talking about a speed/cadence sensor problem.

You didn't read what I wrote. (Go back and read it.)

A "quarter million hits" all talk about 5 times in one trip? Really?

The user manual is weak. Everybody knows that. You could have googled that before hand too!

No.

You clearly don't have much experience with the devices and you don't seem to know a lot about them.

The devices aren't perfect. If you use it with the expectation that they must be perfect, you are going to have a bad time.

raqball

The new 810 firmware (3.0) update appears, so far at least, to have solved the issues I was having..

It only took Garmin what a year to fix bugs and get promised features to work properly..

Gus90

I bought the 810 last year because I was riding longer than my iPhone could hold a charge while using a cycle navigation app. With the Garmin, I like that I could design routes on my computer in advance and upload them to the device. Navigation seems to work fine but sometimes if I have to take a detour it goes all wonky and seems to force me back to the point where I got off the course rather than continue from the point I get back on course.

As I've gotten used to my preferred routes, I actually use the navigation less and less and find that I'm more interested in my speed, distance, grade, cadence, etc. as I try and continue to improve my performance.

I also like the live track feature linking the garmin to my iPhone and allowing friends and family to track me live during a ride. I often ride solo, which can be dangerous and I have at least some comfort knowing that if something happened, they may know where I am. It also keeps my iPhone battery fresh so that if I need to make an emergency call it's not dead. Other than some minor glitches with syncing/connection errors every so often, it works pretty well. Most likely my old iPhone 4s is the problem, not the garmin.

Lastly, I have it set up for all my bikes so it's super easy to swap it between them versus having to have bought separate cyclocomputers for all of them. Just had to buy extra speed/cadence sensors.

frietmet

Thanks! I'll check these out.
Is "ridewithgps" the successor of Brad Culberson's course creator, by any chance?

njkayaker

He's mapmyride, etc. That has its own route planner. Bikeroutetoaster is another popular route planner.

And Garmin has an online one too. They also have BaseCamp, which runs on your PC and uses your device's maps.

njkayaker

Do you have it set to recalculate?

If you do, I suggest turning it off or to prompt (and say no when asked).

The recalculate doesn't seem to work very well (when following an uploaded route).

Gus90

Not sure, but I'll check. I guess my only other major complaint is that the user manual is not very thorough when it comes to walking you through all the programming options. Ie, i just realized how to change the data fields in the training pages from their default order so now I have all the info i want on one screen. I don't believe that was laid out in the manual, but it could be mistaken. Overall, I really like the unit and I'm sure they'll fix the connection error glitch with iPhones sooner or later, at least thats what they've told me.

njkayaker

The manual is well-known to be weak.

Menu->Wrench->Routing->Recalculate No/Prompt.

frietmet

Excellent, this is probably trivial information but I was not yet aware of this!
It's a while ago since I last tried to create my own courses. At that time, Garmin Connect did not exist yet, it was still Motionbased.
Great, thanks!

njkayaker

I don't know what maps you have installed on your device. The route planners usually use Google maps but often allow the OpenStreet maps (OSM) to be used.

Routing works best if you use the same maps for planning that are on the device. (Not that using different maps works badly.)

Keep in mind that maps don't always correspond exactly with the real world either.

Given where you live, it's possible that the "openfietsmap" (bicycle) version of the Openstreet maps might work better for you. (The bicycle versions of the OSM maps don't work very well in the US.)

An easy-to-use source for OSM maps (including "openfietsmap" versions).

Free worldwide Garmin maps from OpenStreetMap

Keep in mind that the maps produced by this site all have the same *.img file name. To change the name, you need to extract from the zip file to your hard disk (not to the Garmin directly) and rename the file there.

Detailed instructions:

How to download free maps to your Garmin Edge 705/800/810 | DC Rainmaker

Be careful not to overwrite any maps that already exist on your microSD card!

frietmet

I have a prehistoric device that doesn't have maps. It is an Edge 305, from the Stone Age of 2007.

Thanks. I might buy a new device in the next year or so, in that case this is very useful info.

njkayaker

That might work like the 500/510. While I like having maps, the 500 is still useful for navigating.

ColnagoC40

It is interesting how many complain about the 800/810, especially if one looks at reviews on Amazon.

It took me a couple of hours to figure out exactly how every feature on the 800 works, as the instructions are not the best, but it has never missed a beat. Routes, directions, custom screens, hard to imagine why one would ever need anything else by comparison. So, for me I would say it is perfect. Perhaps most user complaints are not understanding how all the features work?

I do not use any of the Garmin connect software or plug-ins though, everything goes to Strava. If I do pre-planned routes, they are done either in Strava, or MapMyRide. Then I dump the file manually into the 800.

There are some great Iphone apps, but the phone is bulky and the battery life is short if the screen is left on.

njkayaker

Some (many?) of the problems people have with navigating with them is due to not really understanding how GPS and maps work.

Interestingly, people can get away without that understanding with car navigation units. Part of the problem is that some people think that using a Garmin is going to be easy (maybe, that's due to their experience with car navigation units too).

I've had (relatively minor) navigation issues with the calculated routes but I can usually figure out why those issues occur.

The devices aren't perfect (and some issues with them aren't reasonable).

njkayaker

What was used to plan the route?
Did you upload the "track" file?
What maps are installed on the device?
Was "recalculate" on (it shouldn't be)?
Are you saving the data to the sd card (seems to be preferrable)?

The frequent "freezing" is odd. The Garmins can freeze on long rides related to data collection and the size of the data/fit file but that issue seems to appear around 180+ miles (that is, it doesn't explain the earlier freezes). People recommend closing the data collection and restarting it (so a new file is used).

What did the screen look like when it sent you the wrong way? Was it a little blue arrow? Or a big white arrow?

The map displays the track route. It also displays a calculated course route. (Yes, there are two lines.)

Usually, these are on the same path (usually, they look like one line). When things aren't working quite right, the track route is what you need to pay attention to (the device needs to be displaying the map to be able to do that).

============================================

There are three navigation modes (it's more like 2 and a half).

* The first (more basic) is track following: that entails keeping the blue arrow (representing your position) on the black-bordered purple line.

This method doesn't require maps at all. It just uses the current GPS coordinate to "draw over" the GPS coordinates displayed as the track.

The "off course" warning (it's part of this method) occurs when the current GPS coordinate is too far away from the track course (about 100 feet). It also occurs when the device doesn't get or loses the GPS signal (for example, when in a tunnel). It can also occur because the track coordinates don't quite follow the actual real-world position of the road.

If you get the "off course" warning, the first thing you should do is be aware that you might have lost a GPS signal and the second thing you should do is look the map screen to verify that you are basically following the track. If you are "far away" from the track (and going off in a different direction), you are almost certainly off course!

* The second is using what Garmin calls "course points".

This method is related to the first (and doesn't require maps either). These are a list of GPS coordinates with names and icons (little blue arrows, usually). When you arrive at a coordinate that has a "course point", the Garmin displays the name and icon on the screen. There are a few problems with this method. They are displayed at the turn, by default, which is, often, too late. They have a narrow "window" in which they are displayed. Alos, due to map/real-world differences and GPS "error", they can even be displayed after the turn. And, since they are just labels, they might just be wrong.

* The third is using a calculated route.

This mode is the one familiar to users of car navigation systems. This mode requires maps with routing data. The Garmin fits the loaded route to the nearest roads to calculate a separate route. Ideally, this will be the same path as the track route but a few things can cause the two routes to differ. The usual cause for the differences is planning the route using maps that are different than the map on the device. If you get wacky directions from the calculated routing, use the first method to confirm it.

The first method is going to be the most reliable. But since it's just a list of GPS coordinates, it might not follow the real road exactly (that depends on how accurate the map used to draw the track is).

============================================

Read my prior post. It's important stuff to understand to be able to get the most out of the unit.

If you are using a calculated route ("Turn guidance on"), you will get turn annoucements at 0.1 mile to 500 feet before the turn. You need to use a "good quality" track route for the calculated routing to work well (and make sure "recalculate" is off).

You will also see a big white arrow on the map on the turn well-before you get to the turn.

If you are going fast (20+ mph), it's fairly easy to blow-by the turn (the 0.1 mile distance isn't really enough for high speeds), which is o ne reason you want to display (and look at) the map (like before you hit a down hill). If you blow the turn, the "off course" warning should sound.

I usually split long routes into shorter segments. That makes it easier/faster to restart the route if the thing gets confused.

Note that ugly things happen when recording for long rides (at around 180 miles or so). You probably want to make a habit of resetting data recording to use a new file at "standard" points during the ride. (Of course, that means the total time/distance is reset too.)

It takes a bit of practice/experience but you don't need a cue-sheet at all.

============================================

"Tcx" and "gpx" are formats for files (both are "xml" formats). They don't describe what sort of data they contain.

Whatever format you use, what you want is a "track", which is many GPS coordinates that accurately follows all the turns and curves of the course. (Tcx files can also contain "course points.)

Historically, track data was obtained by recording GPS coordinates while moving. That data can be a bit messy.

Route planners (like ridewithpgs) basically produce a clean "synthetic" track, which follows the roads on a map. You can use a recorded track for navigation but it tends not to work that well.

Devoting time focused on learning/experiencing how the thing works is a good idea. Not enough people do that.

I suspect many people think that using them is (or should be) "easy". The reality is that they are fairly subtle and complicated devices. It takes some practice/experience/knowledge to use them well. There are quite a lot of people who have the units but don't use them for navigation (and get lost)!

If you understand what these are and how they work, you will learn to evaluate whether they make sense or not. You will get them when you lose GPS signal or if the real road deviates too far from the track (based on map data).

They do occur at points where they very-much matter but they are basically a secondary "fail safe" (like when you've blown a turn). Looking at the map (even before-hand) or when the warning occurs is usually enough to make sense of them.

You will quckling smooth over those rough edges (pun?). One approach is to charge it (top it off) earlier (during the day, when it isn't raining). That way, if conditions become less favorable, you are already set.

I said you won't need to follow a cue-sheet. Carry it or use it (too), if you like!

Realizing that you don't need a cue-sheet is kind of key to learning how to use the device.

Shimagnolo

Interesting.
They also introduced new separate speed and cadence sensors which contain accelerometers and don't use magnets. And according to Garmin, these are interchangeable with the older speed/cadence sensors.

njkayaker

They are "interchangable" because the data being transmitted looks exactly the same. The method used to make the measurement is hidden from view (that's the basic point of the ANT+ and similar stuff).

ColnagoC40

You folks are expensive!!!!

I just thinned my wallet by buying two sensors after seeing this.

Shimagnolo

I'd love to get rid of the magnets, but I'm not ready to buy new speed and cadence sensors for *four* bikes.

Weatherby

RidewithGPS.

I uploaded a TCX file and ran that course.

Open source as recommended by DCrainmaker's site.

No. Not on, just checked.

I am not aware of saving any data. If saving data is a problem with the unit, I can live without it but would have no idea how to disable this functionality. I only want accurate non-jumpy speed readings, time, HR, and 150 yard warnings before all turns. Elevation and grade are nice and getting a display of total elevation gained would also be nice.

I think I might have determined part of the wrong routing. Each time the mis-routing would send me on a smaller, parallel tiny road or onto a dirt path. I found a setting that was "Off road" and I just put it to "On Road"

The first set of freezes happened at around 75 miles into what should have been an 186 mile ride. The last set of lockups were probably at 180 miles but I am not sure of my total distance since I cycled for quite a patch with it non-functional. I only had two routes on the 8 gig card. I had only ridden maybe 20 miles before this ride. It is hard to fathom why it could not handle the data or why I would need to stop and reset it mid-ride. I have driven thousands of miles non-stop with my auto Garmin and it never behaved this way. It also froze on a little training ride. One of the crazy freezes was when I stopped at the Milford Bakery. When I came out it after a lengthy stop, I had a hard time starting it and now presume it was locked up because I had to power off and on a few times. When it came back to life, it told me I was off course when I know darn well that I was on course since the bakery was a stop. Then it told me that it found the course (I was not familiar with the route as I download someone elses hilly training ride). I was a bot surprised it sent me across the river. About 15 miles of hills later in Bucks County, I started to question if I was not doing the "Hilly" Covered Bridges course now. Sure enough, I was on another course. The only common point that I could see was the Milford Bakery. Good thing I had the double latte and a large donut.

With respect to the color and nature of the arrow. I do not know. I did once notice another line on the parallel road that I knew was the wrong road and therefore did not take it. I might need to put down more waypoints but I read that the 800 can't handle too many.

Thank you very much for your very thoughtful support.

njkayaker

That site works well (it's what I use). I mostly use the Garmin CN maps but I'm going to use the OSM maps more.

IMO, the Openstreet maps should work fine (except, in a few cases, fairly important stuff is missing).

That's a track file. You can also use a gpx track file (it has the same information except no course points). (Don't use a gpx route file.)

That's a good source for maps (it's really easy/convenient).

Don't use the "openfietsmap" (bicycle) versions in the US!!!

If you also want ride-time/elapsed-time/average-speed/elevation-gain/etc, that requires starting the timer (and saving data). You want to be careful about restarting the timer so it uses a different file (that's annoying and unreasonable).

It's possible that you are not "closing" the data collection file. You press the right button to start data recording (or, if you've set it to ask, you press on the "yes" button on the screen when it asks if you want to start the ride. You stop/pause data collection by clicking on the right button (again). With the data collection stopped, you need to press the left button until the "reset" timer appears and counts down. Once you've done that, the device closes the current data file. A new file will be used when you start data collection.

If you are calculating a course based on an uploaded track, those setting shouldn't matter too much. I suspect the routing problems you are having are related to using the "bicycle" versions of the OSM maps.

The second freeze might be the result of too much data being recorded. The first freeze is odd (it might be due the the "bicycle" OSM maps, if that's what you were using).

It appears that issue is the size of the data file itself being > around 500,000 bytes. It's not that it runs out of room on the microSD card. 8 GB is ample. It isn't reasonable behavior but it's the way it is!

The car units aren't doing as much work and are not saving any real amount of data. The bicycle Garmins are also much more power constrained (which means the processor and system memory might not be as ample).

You are having some really odd problems. What you experienced is not normal at all.

In around 7000 miles, I've had the mine freeze twice. The second time was related to the data recording. The first time might have been related to that too (I was just starting out with using it). And, another time, it kept making me want to do a U-turn when I knew I was on the course (on the same day the first freeze happened).

At this point, I think it's because you are using the "openfietsmap" version of the OSM maps. They don't work well in the US (they worked great in Germany!).

No, you don't need to do that. There is some value in splitting a long course up but that's most to make calculating the route faster (especially, if you need to restart the routing).

There isn't any reason that the device you have can't work well for the ride you did!

Keep in mind that there are two "routes": 1) the track route is a purple line with a black border and 2) the calculated route that is an all purple line (which is wider than the track route). Normally, they sit mostly on top of each other. This causes the track route to have a purple fringe. If you look really closely at the screen, you can see that they aren't always quite on top of each other). Sometimes, you see them separate. If the calculated routing is "bad", it will look bad. That might be hard to check on a long route (it's possible but a pain).

Read the "There are three navigation modes (it's more like 2 and a half). " section in my earlier post carefully. It's really the key to understanding how the devices work.

unterhausen

I probably wouldn't have used the openfietsmaps if I had seen that anyone had problems with them, but I have been using them without issue. I didn't have any significant issues and I rode the same ride as Weatherby. Maybe it was the fact that he was riding so much faster than me. Ok, I have no idea.

njkayaker

The openfietsmaps versions could possibly be OK for calculating a route based on a track sometimes. I'm not sure if I'd trust it always. It's possible that the routing options he was using was part of the problem.

For calculating best routes (without a track), like a car navigation GPS, the Garmins often fail to compute a route or produce wacky routes with the bicycle versions. Part of the problem is how roads in OSM are classified by people and how OSM road classifications get converted to the more limited classifications used in the Garmins.
The normal OSM versions should be more like the Garmin CN maps.

There could be some regional variations in how well the openfietsmap versions work. I know the don't work well for calculated best routes where I live. It would take a lot of work to do more extensive evaluation. I'm not sure if there is a big benefit to using them generally in the US.

The Garmins calculate the routes while you are standing still. As long as you have recalculate off, the route doesn't change. It doesn't depend on speed.

ColnagoC40

I'm just curious, as I have never had any of the issues mentioned above? Even did a 500+ miles trip on a motorcycle, no issues all the way. Did not miss a beat.

I purchased mine with City Navigator NT already installed.

How do you folks go about transferring a route file into the 800? I manually drop a file into the "New" folder and the rest just happens by itself.

Is your software updated?