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  1. #1
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    New Dinotte Head Light

    Since my last thread here was so fun . . .

    Anyone see/use this?
    DiNotte XML-4 Headlight ? DiNotte Lighting USA Online Store

    One more LED emitter than my XML-3. Brighter than my XML-3 (2100+ lumens vs 1600+ lumens); but it weighs more (216 gm vs 100 gm - something doesn't seem right). Looks nice, but I really can't justify another headlight as long as my XML-3 is working fine.

    Round two. Ding, ding, ding.

  2. #2
    Seņior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    Still not a shaped beam. Not interested. Why the HELL is it so hard for manufacturers to deliver a proper, roadworthy headlight in the US?
    Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.

  3. #3
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    the lumen count pi**ing match continues ..

    Off Road 24 hour enduro lights should stay in the forrest .

  4. #4
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    the lumen count pi**ing match continues ..

    Off Road 24 hour enduro lights should stay in the forrest .
    You said it!
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  5. #5
    Senior Member Garfield Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    Still not a shaped beam. Not interested. Why the HELL is it so hard for manufacturers to deliver a proper, roadworthy headlight in the US?
    Can you describe what you consider as a "proper, roadworthy headlight" & "shaped beam"??

  6. #6
    Seņior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garfield Cat View Post
    Can you describe what you consider as a "proper, roadworthy headlight" & "shaped beam"??
    A beam that would be acceptable on any DOT approved headlight on a motor vehicle. One that lights the road and not the eyeballs of an oncoming driver. One where the beam lights up the road evenly, getting brighter as it goes out (required for even illumination) and cuts off at the horizon so oncoming drivers are not blinded.

    In other words, the kind of beam that is required by law by most vehicles on the road, and by bicycles in countries where bicycles are taken seriously. As opposed to conical beams, which are "OK I guess" if you're trail riding and need to see branches that might smack you in the head, but on the road, they just mean "we just got some crap optics left over from flashlight manufacturing because they were cheap, we're not REQUIRED by law to do any better than this and you don't have a better choice, so give us money."

    Check out the beam shots on this page. Notice that the light cuts off abruptly just above the surface of the roadway.

    headlight beams from Peter White Cycles
    Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.

  7. #7
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    This is the battery light I use when I use a bike that doesn't have dynamo lights:


    BUSCH + MÜLLER IXON Core IQ2 LED Headlight

    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Null66's Avatar
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    A lot of the reason I run lights, the biggest and best is NOT so I can see.

    For years I occasionally road w/o lights, and recently on occasion I have enjoyed our green way with out lights. It's truly beautiful.

    But on the road, I WANT the light all over the place...
    Cars come from the most unexpected places.

    As for the "wasted" light that sprays upward? Seems to bounce quite well off street signs, and even overhead wires. Again altering cars coming up behind me.

    And what do I care about absolute efficiency? There's more then enough to go around. With powerful batteries, so what if 20% or so is wasted? There's far more then I can ever hope to generate with a hub in 10 times the time...

    It's too diffuse to blind anyone...

    But then these arguments go on and on, and nobody ever sees the other side.
    So these are really rational arguments...
    They're just dressed up like that.

  9. #9
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    I've found that the best way to be seen is by using a light that is optimized for seeing by.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  10. #10
    Senior Member Garfield Cat's Avatar
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    Ok, from what has been shown (shined?), the Germans have the regulations that require a "no glare" for oncoming traffic. Maybe its more than just "no glare", but that seems to be a very big difference. As far as beam spread and brightness (lumens or lux), I would imagine the manufacturers in the States have it just as good or close to it.

    It would seem to me that the optics for the top horizontal cut-off can be done here in the States. It isn't but that would be something all the manufacturers can add to their "new and improved" models for next year. Is that too difficult?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    I've found that the best way to be seen is by using a light that is optimized for seeing by.
    In my opinion as a driver, if you want to "be seen" a low powered front blinking light is the best. It's both as or more visible than a super bright front light, without being annoying.

    Some people argue that a painful to see light makes cars stay away from you, but then you get into an unresolvable argument about how far your right to the be the brightest and most obnoxious on the road goes, and turns into a light output arms race where eventually no one would be able to see anything.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garfield Cat View Post
    Ok, from what has been shown (shined?), the Germans have the regulations that require a "no glare" for oncoming traffic. Maybe its more than just "no glare", but that seems to be a very big difference. As far as beam spread and brightness (lumens or lux), I would imagine the manufacturers in the States have it just as good or close to it.

    It would seem to me that the optics for the top horizontal cut-off can be done here in the States. It isn't but that would be something all the manufacturers can add to their "new and improved" models for next year. Is that too difficult?
    Clearly it can be done, but for whatever reason they just don't do it.

    The closest I know of from a US manufacturer is the Light And Motion Taz (if I remember the name right), but it doesn't have a distinct cutoff just a more shaped one.

  13. #13
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    I bought an XML-3 mostly for the extended run time at lower settings. But the damn thing throws light everywhere. I'm illuminating the tree tops when the main patch of light is ideally positioned on the path. Definitely not very friendly for other road users.

    I recently got an IXON IQ Premium, and despite a much higher output than the old model, still has a pitifully small lumen output. It would be nice to see a high power shaped beam light. I'd contribute to a kickstarter for one if someone was going to design something non gimmicky. Good lens setup, 500 lumen range and uses plain old protected 18650 batteries.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by gecho View Post
    I recently got an IXON IQ Premium, and despite a much higher output than the old model, still has a pitifully small lumen output. It would be nice to see a high power shaped beam light. I'd contribute to a kickstarter for one if someone was going to design something non gimmicky. Good lens setup, 500 lumen range and uses plain old protected 18650 batteries.
    Interesting, have you actually ridden with it on the road for some time, or were you just disappointed from a cursory use of it?

    I have one, and it's been "sufficient" but I do start to feel like having more light would be more reassuring. I'm not even sure it's really the lumen output - the annoyance is mostly the color distribution that the led puts out, it's not ideal. It's one of the best lights I've used (imo) but there's room for improvement. There's an aspect I enjoy about it that I feel like I can see the road without it negatively impacting my night vision to see outside the main beam. Wondering if running two of them on the bars at the same time would do the trick, lol.

    You definitely might enjoy the Phillips Saferide more. The older version (the v1.2 one they were selling on us amazon when I bought it) uses a 5k led which is the crystal white you see on a lot of wide light output bike lights. It makes it harder to see outside the beam, but it's a well shaped beam with a cutoff and you really feel like it lights up the road.

    The more recent version of the Phillips Saferide (v2) that I ordered from a specific site in Europe where I knew I'd get the latest version from, the color temperature is in the middle - seems brighter than the ixon iq, but can still see outside where the beam hits pretty well.

    If you really want higher light output, right now your best bet would be to buy and run 2 of them at the same time. There's a video on youtube of a guy who does that. But if you just feel it's a little to dim, the Phillips Saferide is a similarly designed light that might solve your problem as well.

  15. #15
    Seņior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    This is the battery light I use when I use a bike that doesn't have dynamo lights:


    BUSCH + MÜLLER IXON Core IQ2 LED Headlight
    That looks awesome! Is there a US seller? I found one on eBay for about $90 shipped from Germany.
    Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.

  16. #16
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    I got mine from xxcycle.com in France, but now I feel guilty for not patronizing peterwhitecycles.com. See if he sells them.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  17. #17
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    Why would you feel guilty about not buying from Peter white? It's not your job to support him.

    I purchased 4 shimano dynamos from German vendors. And I'd buy another one from those vendors if I needed them. However, my new go-to dynamo is the sp dynamo.

  18. #18
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    Harris Cyclery, the sponsor of the Sheldon Brown website, also carries them. I think Peter White is the importer and Harris still goes through him. I ordered from Harris (the Cyo Premium, not the Ixon) and the light arrived in 2 days. It'll take longer from overseas.

    As for shaped beam vs. light blasters, I'm finding pedestrians react to my light just as much as the old high powered blinking light I used. Cyclists are always amazed at how I light up the road in front of me, and drivers just don't notice. I'm in NYC though, and the street lighting is everywhere. Mostly the lights are needed so you can be noticed. Occasionally I need the light to see the street in front of me so I don't hit potholes.
    Last edited by zacster; 09-09-14 at 06:13 AM.

  19. #19
    Seņior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    I got mine from xxcycle.com in France, but now I feel guilty for not patronizing peterwhitecycles.com. See if he sells them.
    I didn't see them on his page so I ordered from a shop in Germany that's on eBay. It shipped yesterday via DHL and should be here late this week (about 3 or 4 days). I don't think it's longer than UPS ground from the east coast to here.

    I'll post beamshots and comparisons on my site when I get it.
    Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.

  20. #20
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    It's not my job to support any one business or another, but sometimes it's nice to take care of your own, so to speak. Buying from Peter White or Harris Cyclery is the localest (to coin a word) I can get, so I'll consider it next time.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
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  21. #21
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    Still not a shaped beam. Not interested. Why the HELL is it so hard for manufacturers to deliver a proper, roadworthy headlight in the US?
    Huh?...What would make you think ( or anyone else for that matter ) that this was suppose to be a "road worthy" lamp? Any time I see more than two emitters I automatically assume it's a lamp designed for mountain biking. Patience my friend, sooner or later some one will make something akin to the Ixon's with two emitters and external batteries.

    In the mean time some of the other two emitter lamps work okay on the road. I use my Gloworm X2 on the road all the time and I have yet to see anyone run off the road because it was too bright. That said I do typically only use the lower output levels.

  22. #22
    Seņior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01 CAt Man Do View Post
    Huh?...What would make you think ( or anyone else for that matter ) that this was suppose to be a "road worthy" lamp? Any time I see more than two emitters I automatically assume it's a lamp designed for mountain biking. Patience my friend, sooner or later some one will make something akin to the Ixon's with two emitters and external batteries.

    In the mean time some of the other two emitter lamps work okay on the road. I use my Gloworm X2 on the road all the time and I have yet to see anyone run off the road because it was too bright. That said I do typically only use the lower output levels.
    Well, point taken, I suppose this probably isn't intended for road use.

    I don't really think that the proper metric for a bad light is "causes people to run off the road." After all, I can leave the high beams on all night long while driving and it doesn't cause anyone to run off the road either. It's a huge dick move but by your measure that's just fine.
    Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.

  23. #23
    Senior Member 01 CAt Man Do's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    Well, point taken, I suppose this probably isn't intended for road use.

    I don't really think that the proper metric for a bad light is "causes people to run off the road." After all, I can leave the high beams on all night long while driving and it doesn't cause anyone to run off the road either. It's a huge dick move but by your measure that's just fine.
    Never, either here or anywhere else have I advocated running high beams full time while driving or using overly bright bike lights when it would not be safe to do so. That said perhaps you don't understand what, "My measure " really is about. Personally, I don't think I could lay that last sentence of yours on anyone. It's just not in Me.

    About my previous comment , "..causes people to run off the road". That was just a rhetorical way of saying that the lamp I was using on the road poses no danger or unusual annoyance to typical on-coming traffic ( IMO ). If it did I wouldn't be using it on the road. I think that most people who read my previous comment understood it was not intended to be an actual metric.
    Last edited by 01 CAt Man Do; 09-10-14 at 04:42 PM.

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