PaulRivers

Right, well, if you want to argue that your light could suffer mechanical failure a dynamo won't prevent that. But it's not worse than any other kind of light in that regard. A battery light that you have to take off the bike could get smashed, dropped, or if you leave it on the bike stolen. I had a frame break on my once while riding it - there's nothing 100% unbreakable. But you could get a wheel smashed, stepped on, etc while it's in the rack to.

Most of them are though. That's usually where they are designed to be mounted, with the option to mount elsewhere if you want. But it far more unusual. If I try to account for every possibility these threads get way to long.

I actually did walk my bike home when I was biking with my dad this summer and he tried to take a turn to soon and flatted his front tire by smacking into a curb. He was...lol, this is seriously just what happened - he couldn't see that well because the batteries in his light were getting low and he hadn't replaced them in a while.

My front dynamo light lit up the road in front of me perfectly fine while walking home at walking pace. You gotta remember - you don't need much light to walk with. The light was dimmer than usual, but plenty of light for a walking pace. (It's a Cyo.)

I couldn't agree with you more on the second part of your statement - urban situations with intermittent lighting are absolutely the worst. Far worse than being out in the country with no lighting.

On the first part, you were saying you could rig up two lights with a dynamo, and I was agreeing that it's not worth it. If it's for more light, I haven't found the need, but if you did for some reason I'd still rather use a completely separate light for reduncancy if I was going to go to all that trouble.

There's definitely a point where having more light is not an advantage. But that gets a little...pendantic?

Can you even hook up 2 dynamo lights to a dynamo hub? I know you could with halogens, didn't think you could do it with dynamo's. I guess I could say there's no point for me to do that.

[QUOTE=cyccommute;17176245]Shaped beam patterns...I don't necessarily agree that the German light pattern is that good...

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think the only spec that's actually German putting not more than a tiny amount of light above the horizon. Otherwise the manufacturer designs it how they want.

As I've written before, in my repeated experience own both, a good shaped beam is just better than an unshaped one. One can argue that they'd like somewhat more light above the horizon than the German spec, that's not really an argument I care to get into. As long as the beam is shaped to have a smooth light pattern, and even amount of light everywhere (basically) in the beam, and doesn't have a hotspot, it works for me. If someone wants to come out with an american shaped beam that does that but doesn't meet the German spec I'd give it a shot without thinking about it.

I agree completely, and have written before that I think dynamo lights before the Cyo were crap. A few people will disagree, but that's what I think. I bought a bike that came with a dynamo, thought the dynamo was useless, then they announced the Cyo and I bought one intending to return it if it didn't do the job, but it worked pretty well. First light to put out enough light to actually ride everywhere by, imo.

The only reason, in my opinion, to have a dynamo light before that was if you have a very niche use for it, or for the novelty factor. I know some people used them for 24 hours races when you couldn't buy a light with a battery that lasts long enough. Maybe if you lived somewhere where if your light went out it was so cold you could die, you'd bring a battery light and also a dynamo. I dunno, point is, I agree that it's only been relatively recently that dynamo's are good lights to ride with. Before that they were crap. (I suspect if you go back far enough, you might find a time when they were useful, back when battery technology was terrible or non-existant).

I've found the overly bright front blinking lights annoying as heck, but living in Minneapolis where there are a ton of bikers on the streets, I've found low power front blinking lights helpful in easily seeing cyclists. Dunno what else to add.

As for the amazon light, you're probably right. I was thinking about it because I have somewhat different requirements than the OP - long battery life, looks cheap so I won't feel weird leaving it on the bike, and as a secondary light to a main steady light.

The only drawback is that if you're strictly looking for a "best to be seen" light, I don't know if/what blink modes that light you linked to have. High power blink is obnoxious at night - not just for other traffic, but for you. It's also a light + battery rather than being integrated.

But - other than the fact that I haven't tried it so I can't personally recommend it - you're right, the OP is looking for a primary light not a secondary one, that one would increase the "be seen" visibility by a lot and also let the OP see the road.

Well, I agree with you, but I said in my post it was a far more expensive option.

The bottom line here is frankly laziness. I mean...efficiency. Yeah, yeah, efficiency. :-)

I haven't found having a back and forth asking questions about someone's need to be as productive or interesting for my time, as saying "Here are the plusses and minuses of one choice". It's a lot less work, and I get more positive feedback. My post emphasized that it was more cost effective to go with a battery light. It's a lot easier that way than trying to guess, or asking a long back and forth with the OP on a forum. It seems like the best way to go, as long as one acknowledges the drawbacks and tradeoffs that they're aware of.

Well, I disagree with you on the first part. I think since the Cyo they've gotten good enough (finally) for mainstream use. People like they're all over the place for anyone who bikes anywhere in some countries in Europe. Weren't they legally mandated or something in Germany on non-racing bikes?

I'm just lazy, and it's to much work for me to have a long back and forth guessing what the OP's needs are and aren't. If someone says they want a light for their high speed racing bike or in group rides, or they're just looking for a casual light for backup and they don't bike that much, I don't recommend a dynamo light.

But otherwise it's just to much work to guess. OP says they their first night ride - of 40 miles. 40 miles is a long ride. That's not someone who dusted off their hybrid in their garage and took it out for a spin or two.

I just assume the OP is smart enough to make their own decision based on their own needs, and I don't see a gain in spending 2 pages trying to figure out what those are. I personally own a $800 bike for commuting to work, and have $300 worth of dynamo stuff on it, been thinking of getting a new front light and that would bump it up for $400 for me. I decided it was worth it for me. I more expensive bike didn't get me anything I felt was important, but more money on the light did get me less hassle in needing to charge stuff. (Ironically I use a battery rear light because I preferred a blinking light and hadn't seen the toplight plus - I just go with whatever works best for me).

If someone wanted to say halogen vs led, led is just better. If someone wants to think about battery vs dynamo, there's no "better", it just depends on your priorities, needs, and preferences. You have no idea what the OP is like - maybe they're a broke college student and a dynamo system is absurd. Maybe they're a millionare and they're going to have their butler go out and get whatever light they want. It's just easier for me to say "here's an option" and let the OP figure it out than try to guess or have a long back and forth to figure it out myself.

Plus, it's more interesting for the OP. Their priorities might not have any use for a dynamo light right now, but later they will, and if I didn't mention it they never would have heard of it. Who knows.

alan s 

You can move lights from bike to bike with regular lights, but not dynamo lights, unless you move the wheel as well. If you use multiple wheelsets on the same bike, it becomes a really expensive proposition to have a dynamo hub on each wheel. Multiple lights, bars and helmet, requires at least one regular light. Plus all the other things already said.

RoadTire 

Lots of good suggestions. The light from Fastec looks good. I use a $25 LED flashlight with single 18650 LiOn battery, mounted with an inline LockBlock rubber/velcrow chineese knockoff thingie (forgot the name) on top of my stem instead of on the bars. Carry a spare loaded flashlight (my son's) and one spare battery because I'm paranoid. Also a low-power 80 lumen (stated) 3-AA headlamp on my helmet for close, handy lighting. Like if I have to stop on the ride for something.

Mr IGH

I'd recommend a dyno hub and proper light. Then you'll never have to bother with batteries and all their hassles. I had a battery pack fail one hour's ride from home, that really sucked. My lighting system is always ready to go, no need to waste time and effort keeping up with batteries.

pdlamb

Is there some reason users of Brand X battery-powered lights may post to every light thread on how wonderful their lights are, but dyno light users should not? Or, for that matter, why it's apparently acceptable to post all the downsides of dyno lights (they cost a bit) while asking proponents not to post the downsides of the battery-powered alternatives?

rumrunn6

I have a magicshine up front which I use night and day. strobe during the day, steady on (high) at night. I dip it downward when/where I feel it is courteous. on the back I also have a strobe. when commuting I carried a spare headlight cuz I once had my headlight cut out and that was NOT COOL ...

cyccommute 

My point was that multiple battery systems are less likely to have a complete failure if one of the lights is damaged. Generator systems have all their eggs in one basket. It's true that there are lots of things that can break on a bike but if you can build in redundancy, that's not a bad thing.

That's good to know.

That's part of my problem with generator lights...the lack of redundancy. I've had far too many wires fail, light clamps break, bulbs blow out, etc. to depend on a single light and a single power source. Granted the wiring failing is due, largely, to my lack of soldering skill but still, I'd rather have backups. Given that I once almost had to spend a night out on a mountain bike trail because my ride was "Gilligan Island" (supposed to be a 3 hour tour but ended up being closer to 14 hours), I carry back ups to my back ups.

I prefer a light that has a bright central part of the beam. Most of the LED lights that I've seen are too "floody" with a beam angle of about 35 degrees. I prefer something closer to 12 degrees so that it puts light where I need it for off-road use...which often do when I commute. I've found some LED that are around 20 degrees that are acceptable but I would prefer a narrower spot light. That's a personal preference, however.

With respect, I think you missed my point. It's not that the current generator lights aren't good enough for mainstream use, it's that they are too expensive for the casual user. I wouldn't suggest a $200 battery powered system to a casual user. I really wouldn't suggest a $200 battery system to anyone considering how cheap and good lights like the ones I've linked to are. I'm not above spending money on bikes...I paid $145 for a Moots titanium riser bar and that was a bargain...but I don't spend extra money just to spend it. Well, I do but on other frivolous things and usually only one of them. I don't have 2 Moots bars.

We'll have to agree to disagree there. LED could be better but it isn't there yet. The light output of current LEDs is at about the point of halogens of 15 to 20 years ago...about 600 lumens. Sure you can gang up a bunch of LEDs and get a lumen output approaching that of a 20% overvolted MR16 halogen (1500 lumen) but it doesn't have the throw and compactness of that MR16. Even the power requirements of current LEDs aren't that much lower than the overvolted halogen. You get a lot of efficiency with overvolting of halogens. That's another reason why I council people not to buy $200 battery systems. The technology is changing to rapidly for a $200 bicycle light to be a good value.

I agree and thank you for your civility.

Steamer

I use both dynamo lights and battery lights. When I am using a battery light, I carry along a backup battery light. When I am using my dynamo light, I carry along a back up battery light.

Stuff happens, and back ups are a good thing™.

Mr IGH

Nothing cooler than a SA 90mm drum/dyno running an LED headlamp:

alan s 

I prefer wireless lights that don't require a huge hub. I also don't generally need lights 6 months of the year, so being forced to carry one with me all the time is so uncool.

Mr IGH

Huge hub is mostly the retro-cool drum brake, 90mm of loving! Without batteries to worry about, I use the light all year round, day and night.

alan s 

Now, this is cool.

PaulRivers

Well, if you want redundancy, then a dynamo + battery light would have the redundancy of 2 lights, plus the backup of that the dynamo light (if not damaged) has no battery stuff. And the drawback, as we keep repeating, is that that would be noteably more expensive than 2 cheap battery lights.

But on the topic of reliability, on the one hand I could get a flat tire, and I do carry patches, a spare tube, and a pump.

But on the other hand, there's no way to 100% eliminate possible failures. Your frame could break while riding - like I said it happened to me. It would be pretty amusing to always carry a spare frame on your back just in case. Your wheel could get smashed badly enough in the rack (purposefully or accidentally) that you'd need to bring a spare rime with you to fix it. Etc.

It's a matter of how much risk you think is worthwhile to take. I always carry my cell phone with me, and could call family, friends, or a cab, in case something like frame failure happened.

In the middle are things that you could carry a backup for but it's not worth the hassle. I could carry a spare chain, but I don't. I could carry spare spokes and spoke tools, but I don't. I could carry an extra tire (different than an extra tube), but I don't. I'd rather call a cab, or call someone for a ride, and then pay for that with money than go through the hassle of carrying that extra stuff - because it pretty much never happens. Fixing a tire I do myself, other more rare things aren't worth the hassle for me. It's the same with your car - any time you drive somewhere, there's a tiny chance your car will break.

On that list, a dynamo light is very reliable. Less likely, in my opinion, to break than a chain, spoke, etc. It's not impossible that it could happen, but like I said I've had a frame break as well.

The odds of something going wrong with a battery light are, in my opinion, higher. I've had several issues. Even then though, honestly, I've never been able to convince myself it's worth the hassle of 2 lights for the kind of biking I do around town. I've always found some sort of workaround that got me home. If the circumstances are more important or different than biking around town I'll bring a backup light - I always bring one mountain biking. It's pitch black, you're in the middle of the forest, you take a wrong turn and easily add an hour onto your ride and run out of battery, and crashing is far more common.

Sorry for the long post, what I meant to say is that I think a dynamo lights odds of failure are around the same as breaking an entire wheel, breaking a frame, or something like that. It's not 0, but it falls into the "use the emergency plan" area.

P.S. Remembered why I don't bring a backup light for changing flats - my cell has a led flashlight on it, and I always bring my cell phone.

I just haven't had that experience, not with decent commercial lights, since the advent of led's. There's no soldering needed for installing a dynamo light, and haven't had or heard of bulb issues since led's. It's not impossible that a mount could break or a wire could go bad, but I could break spokes on my wheel to like I was saying. Dynamo reliability in my opinion (if you're not doing anything custom) is as good as the other reliable stuff on my bike.

Sorry to hear that about your Gilligan Island experience...kinda want to point out a tiny bit that it wouldn't have been a problem if you had dynamo. But seriously, I remember the first time I went mountain biking on a real trail at night. I thought I had plenty of battery life, then my light went dim, then it went off. It was getting colder, you can't see a thing in the middle of the woods, no idea which way was even back without a light to see the trail, and since you're in the woods it's pitch black - no ambient light. Fortunately for me, in my paranoia, I had in fact brought a second set of batteries. I switched the connection over to them and went on my way. It wasn't easy to do in the dark, but I figured it out and things worked out. 14 hours in the middle of the night - wow, that's a long time.

Interesting. I definitely prefer a wider beam for the bars, but if I'm using a helmet light a narrower beam for the helmet.

You completely jumped over what I said before though. I find it more work and less useful to try to read to much into an OP's situation. I assume that if I say the advantages and disadvantages, they can sort them out without me asking repeated questions over and over again. I find that it's easier and best for both of us - posters tend to get annoyed with a ton of questions, sometimes posters will even say they want one thing then change their mind later in the thread, and even if I'm wrong sometimes it's useful to them later when they're thinking about their next move.

You'd have to define "casual user" - like I said, I personally own an $800 road bike and $300 in dynamo lighting on that bike. It's totally worth it for me, I never would have found out about it if someone had started making assumptions for me about what I did and didn't want.

I guess I'd rather not get into a debate on another topic.

I'm happy to discuss most things on a logical and useful level, and I hope other people are as well.

noglider 

Here is the lighting system on my Bianchi Volpe, one of my too-many bikes. I ride the Volpe a lot, and one reason is that it does everything with aplomb. I run the lights day and night because the cost is imperceptibly low: I can't feel the drag that the generator hub creates.

On my bikes without generator systems, I love this battery-powered light.

I use a Cygolite Hotshot as a battery-powered tail light. It can go steady or flashing, and there is a choice of flashing patterns. It is very bright. Both the B&M Ixon and the Hotshot last for several days on a USB charge, largely because they both have lithium-ion batteries.

loky1179

I still use a cheapo Costco light. But, they are cheap, and not so bright, so I use this little trick to increase both the output and redundancy by a factor of 6:

keyven

I've seen BIKES that are more compact than that setup!

10 Wheels

Get TWO of these and see where you are riding.

https://www.amazon.com/Cycling-Bicycl...eywords=led+t6

loky1179

Have you used this light? Looks interesting. I like self contained usb rechargeables. I have a light and motion 400. Neat little light, but i could use more power and runtime.

ColonelSanders

No, not yet.

I'm annoyed at myself because in my procrastinating, it has since gone up in price or at least isn't available at the same discount to RRP, as it was a few months ago.

I'll be looking out for when it is available again at a reduced price, even though it is still cheaper than its contemparies.

noglider 

I just checked your link, and at the moment, it's $190 US. What made you choose that one? That's a lot of lumens for such a small package. How long is it supposed to run on a charge? I'm always afraid of discharge before my ride is done. Also, are there any reviews of the light that particularly sold you on it?

cyccommute 

To be honest, I never used commercial systems until I started using LEDs. Commercial systems generally cost too much with too little value. My light experience also spans 35+ years and there just wasn't anything available that was worth the money...generator or battery...commercially for 15 to 20 of those years. Even generator guys of old had to do a lot of DIY.

It wasn't 14 hours in the dark but 14 hours total. Lack of planning and a wrong turn...5 miles one way on a 30 mile ride...made for a very long day. A dynamo wouldn't have helped much since this was a full off-road single track mountain bike ride. That's why we have all these battery lights out there. Mountain bike riders don't really find generators to be of much use for night rides. The ride was also about 10 years ago so generators weren't all that good back then.

We did, fortunately, have a squeezy key chain light but after 10 or 15 minutes your hand starts to cramp. I carry a key chain flashlight now...and plan better


squidrow is the perfect example of the "casual user". He didn't do a 40 mile ride at night but he did a 40 mile ride that ended after dark. It's his first 40 mile ride...those were the days...so I'd assume that he's pretty new to the sport. I would assume that he's not a utility rider nor a bicycle commuter so he doesn't have a need for a light on a regular basis. Dropping $400 on a light system of any kind probably wouldn't make a lot of sense for his needs. Dropping $20 on a battery powered light that has a good output so that he can get his feet wet. I'd suggest that for any one new to night riding, however. If you like the experience, then by all means explore options further down the road but I'd still suggest going cheap to begin with...especially given how good the performance of the "cheap" Cree type lights (aka Magicshine clones) is.

Mr IGH

$190 and you don't get an extra battery? I only paid $85 for my dyno hub and it included a front brake. $150 for my Phillips Saferide front/rear lights and all the wiring. Less than $250 for maintenance free lighting seems reasonable....

PaulRivers

Still...ouch.

In the last few years I've seen more interesting dynamo mountain bike specific lighting mentioned:
Edelux vs. The World- Mtbr.com

Exposure Revo Mk1 Dynamo Front Light review | road.cc"This compact dynamo powered light offers an 800 lumen output with the burntime only limited by rider endurance. If you keep pedalling the light keeps shining bright.With Stand Light Technology, when you stop riding the light dims slightly but remains lit for 10 minutes. It ensures you will still be seen when stopped at junctions. It bounces straight back to full output after a couple of peddle revolutions. There is up to an hour of light produced after this to help with all post ride activities.

I don't have any personal experience with it though. On the one hand it's not as many lumens as my Seca 1400, and even there I could use a few more. On the other hand, I used to mountain bike with a 200 lumen lamp. And as we discussed earlier, if you're in the middle of the woods with no external light you actually need less light to see with.

Just an fyi that they do make mountain-bike focussed dynamo lights, whether it's "worth it" is as usual debatable.

Lol, yeah, they were terrible then.

:-) May or may not relate to your situation, but I've learned from experience - when on group ride (the kind where people you don't know show up), never ever assume that someone else you're following actually knows where they are going. There's this weird dynamic where following someone makes them more confident in taking bad turns...lol, seriously, I learned this again. And again. And again...

My dad rode with a neighbor for 6 miles. The neighbor was exhausted at the end of the ride. My dad was like "we just got warmed up". I mean 6 miles. 40 miles being new to the sport... I can't even ride 40 miles without being tired, and I've been riding all summer (most rides more like 15-20 miles though, it's not 30 miles to work).

My approach like I said is to point out the good and the bad under the assumption that the OP is a better judge of what they will need for lighting than I would be, or you would be. It's good to point out cheaper alternatives, but there's a lot of different possible situations for the OP that you're guessing at. For example, OP could have been riding every day when they come home from work all summer. If so, it's not like rain where it won't be raining tomorrow, the OP will continue to deal with the dark more and more as they keep riding. I figure the OP knows better than you or I do. And like I said, mentioning future alternatives means they've heard about them if they get one thing now but later the other makes more sense.

Mr IGH

I even run an SP Dyno hub and SuperNova E3 Triple (800 lumens) on one of my MTBs, it supplements my helmet mounted light and I always have light, even after my battery dies on my helmet light.

slowpacer

I looked at many lights and decided on Fenix BT20 at the end. One of the main reasons i picked this model was because it can run on 2 standard rechargeable 18650 batteries, so i can carry extra batteries in my bag. I think this is a great light with good light pattern and great features. I've mounted it on my hybrid with one of these brackets and the battery case is mounted to the bracket with O rings.