DBrown9383

O.K. I've been lurking for a little while and finally registered.. Please don't laugh as my wife and I got into this with no guidance or direction. We are both 60ish and recently retired. We are active but have never had bikes not counting when we were kids. Wife's idea to buy bikes and ride bike paths here in northern MI.. I agreed but didn't want to spend a lot of money. Again, don't laugh but we bought two hybrid bikes from Amazon. They are Schwinn network 3.0's.. I put them together o.k. but ended up taking them to a local bike shop for good derailleur adjustments and better saddles and some other accessories. The bike shop owner is a great guy and helped me out a lot. He wasn't offended that we bought our bikes off the internet instead of from him but quickly pointed out what I already knew (you get what you pay for). So off we go on our first bike jaunt.. 10 miles round trip on a macadam bike path.. No problem and my wife loved keeping track of calories burned etc. with her new bike computer. Our butts were a little sore but not bad.. We took a day off and then went on our second trip.. This time 20miles round trip on a macadam bike path.. Again, no real issues except for some saddle soreness and me realizing my handlebars weren't high enough, back to the bike shop for a 3" riser. We then took two days off and hit a rails to trails path for a 20mi. trip.. The snow has just melted here in northern MI so the multi use trail was still soft and the hybrid tires sunk in a lot. It was uphill for 10mi. but not a steep grade. We were exhausted but looking forward to the 10mi. return trip downhill.. No such luck.. We still had to pedal a lot because of the soft trail. When we got back to the car 3 hours later we were about dead and out of water and talk about saddle sore!.. Now my wife wants a new saddle that is softer but I'm reading that a saddle that's too soft is not good. I think we just need to get our sit muscles and bones acclimated to riding. I'm thinking we bought the wrong bikes or we need two sets of bikes, one bike for macadam trails and one for dirt trails. We have helmets and pretty good clothing but no bike shoes or clipless pedals yet. My wife doesn't want them... I think we did too much too soon and that last ride was a real bummer. Should we just soldier on with what we have or buy better bikes now and if so, is there such a thing as a bike that is good for soft dirt trails AND for paved bike paths? I'm thinking maybe a mountain bike that we could switch wheels to have thin road tires when riding paved trails? I've already invested close to a grand all in with bike racks, helmets. water bottles, a bar riser, bike computer, saddles, tune ups etc. I know that's just a drop in the bucket for most "real" bikers but if we're going to keep doing this, I want good gear.. Any and all advice is appreciated and I can take the ridicule for trying to cheap out on the bikes we have now. Thanks.

MinnMan

Good for both of you.

I'd say that 20 miles on a soft trail is on the ambitious side for just starting out. It's more important to ride frequently than it is to push your limits.

As to saddle issues, it's too early to say, particularly given that you probably overextended yourselves on that ride. Go back to easier rides and put in some miles, then you'll know about the saddle.

catonec 

a good pair of padded bike shorts make a big difference. Not so much in the cushioning aspect but in the friction. there are 2 pieces of material with a pad in the middle. this allows one surface to be against your butt and a different surface to be against the saddle, they move independently of each other separated by the pad.

You're body's tolerance will increase for sure over time but you can definitely be using a saddle that is wrong your shape. saddles come in different widths, just like peoples butts. having the right fit is step 1. finding the best design can be difficult, and expensive. Because of this most bike shops will have a saddle exchange policy or bin. you bring in a saddle and try a different one until you're happy. Ive used about 6 different ones over the past 7 years. currently I have found comfort on a selle smp.

this doesnt mean this will work for you. maybe? your wife might like it and you'll hate it, never know till you try it out for a few rides.

the theory behind overly padded saddles is basically, with sooo much cushioning, when you sit on it it has to go somewhere. it fills all the available space under and around your butt and restricts the blood flow significantly. this causes numbness and or pain.

my smp is not really a super lightweight racing saddle (not terribly heavy but...). It has just enough cushioning to help relieve pressure plus a well positioned channel. My favorite feature is the downturned nose. not only do I feel like i have more room to move but my jersey doesnt get snagged on the tip when I stand up.

good luck

osco53

Welcome Mr Brown

The bike shop guy smiled because he knows he will get to sell you your second set of bikes !
For how you two are riding now the bikes you picked are fine and will last a good while,
As you get stronger you may want more bike, time will tell. Relax and enjoy the ride,the workout and If the bikes are
working properly don't think about the bikes, think about the ride.

Padding in the shorts will help on your quite long for a new rider rides ....
You will 'Harden Up' the more regular your rides become,, 3 per week Is optimum.
I'd say stick to 10 mile rides for the first month at 3 per week. You two are not training for a race

Things that hold true for all, Saddles, very personal but most agree, soft seats often hurt more than firm well designed seats,,,
Handle bars can be too high putting too much stress on your sit bones,, or too low putting too much stress on your wrists.. It's a balance.
Bike fit is everything, google it in the forum, moving the seat fore or aft just a half inch can make a world of a difference. Saddles should be kept level for 99% of the people..

The Cardinal truth,,, It ain't the bike It's the engines,,and they get better.
No Pain No Gain.......
Hydration is paramount.
Proper diet, very Important.
Never stretch cold muscles,, ride a mile or two, get off and stretch everything. stretch before bed time also.
Learn to spin don't mash,,your knee's are expensive to replace :XD

Ride the bike,
My seat maker,
ISM

Yes they make comfort saddles,, they are there..

bruce19

That's a nice description of your entry to cycling and pretty typical. Except for the part where you are doing 20 mi. for first rides. That's pretty good for a newbie. But, on to some of your questions. I would agree with others that you should get your butt used to a bicycle saddle before you decide that you need a new saddle. There is a break-in period for your butt that I go through every year to some extent. Once you've done that you will know if your current saddle works for you. If you start buying saddles now you will end up with a half dozen sitting in your garage. Give it time then start looking. By then you will have a better base of understanding and may look at things differently. As to bikes....yes there is a type of bike that can be used on dirt trails and paved paths. It's called a cyclo-cross bike. I think they are awesome but be aware they are compromises. They will do most things well but will never substitute for a road bike on the road or a mountain bike in rugged terrain. But for the riding you describe they are perfect IMO. As with the saddle issue don't go buy a bike just yet. Ride what you have for a season and you will learn a lot about how you want to ride in your cycling "career." This will help you make informed choices and save you money over time.

You and your wife are off to a good start. Whatever you do have fun on your rides and be patient when looking for improvement. Much of your improvement depends on how much you ride and how well your body and mind respond to conditioning. I think you are off to a fine start. Have fun.

Retro Grouch 

Two things:

1. Your early rides sound a little bit ambitious to me. Take it easy and your bum will come around.

2. Better bikes will make a difference but there's a lot of different styles to pick from. Since you already have bikes that you can ride, I'd advise amassing a little more experience before making your next purchase. As you and your wife ride, make mental lists of what you like about your present bikes and what you hate about them. If you're objective there will be some of each and the lists may even change as the seasons progress and as you find other places that you like to ride. Find a style of bike that maximizes the things on your good list and minimizes the things on the bad list, pick a model at a price point that you're comfortable with and you'll be good-to-go.

StanSeven

When riding in soft dirt, no bike is fast. Unless you want dropped bars like on a road bike, your hybrids are a good all around bike.

You and your wife are doing great. Keep riding and you'll find what works for you. Spending a lot now until you sort through everything doesn't make sense.

curlyque

Might as well invest in a rack for your vehicle too.

Day trips that include a bike ride in a new area are nice incentive for us.

Wanderer

Good on both of you.... Just take it easy until the trail firms up, and you get used to riding again.

Are these bikes meant to be left in a cottage, for use when you are there? If so, they will be fine for a long time.

Again, if so, store them inside the building when you are absent, like in the kitchen. They will last longer.

OldsCOOL

We must be somewhat neighbors. I'm in Boyne City. Welcome to the forums.

DBrown9383

Thanks for all the responses! I'm happy that everyone thinks we should just ride what we have for now, my wallet will be happy too. Now I'm wondering if we should put the stock saddles back on and try those but the reviews of these bikes all said the stock saddles weren't any good. Now that I have a tiny bit of knowledge, maybe the stock saddles are fine and everyone just got saddle sore because of not riding for many years like us. Sadly, the weather is taking a turn for worse starting tomorrow and highs only in the 30's next week. My bike now needs to go back to the bike shop. I noticed while cleaning it yesterday that if I hold a pedal and move it towards the bike and then away from the bike, the three sprockets (actually the whole assembly) moves a good quarter of an inch in and out. There is a large collar that is loose and there's not enough clearance for me to get a wrench in there. I tightened it by hand and it was better but there is still free play there. I fear riding it any more now would damage the bearings. It must take a special bike tool to tighten. I do have a nice hand pump and a hex key set for the bikes but it looks like I need to buy more tools now. I'll also look in to padded bike shorts but if we're going to ride at all next week I think we'll need ski pants/bibs. We are trying to ride a little every day to get our bodies used to it but our neighborhood is too small to really take a good ride and the state road out of the development is busy with a lot of fast traffic. We pretty much have to load the bikes up and take them somewhere to get a decent ride in. Not happy with the bike rack for the trunk of the car. Every time I load the bikes it's different and they rub or touch somewhere. I end up using pieces of closed cell foam to prevent damage but still have some rub marks. The only thing that makes it o.k. is that we didn't pay a lot for the bikes so a few scratches or worn through paint isn't a big deal. I'm trying to get my wife to ride in the middle gear on the front instead of the smallest gear as I've read about avoiding big/big-small-small but she likes staying on the smallest sprocket. I believe the only reason for that is that once she tried to shift from 2nd to first the chain fell off into the crank. She kept pedaling unfortunately so I had a really jammed up chain to deal with. I turned the low limit screw 1/4 turn to keep the front derailleur further from the crank and it was just right. It shouldn't happen again. Cable tension was still o.k. for shifting to #3 .. I did have to spend some time with her on how to shift the gears as the only bike she had previous to this didn't have cassette gears. She was pedaling full force and shifting at the same time. I would cringe hearing the gears and chain grind. Now she's figured it out that you have to let up to shift and she's learning how to anticipate when she needs to shift too. I am enjoying maintaining the bikes, tire pressure, cleaning the cassettes and chain etc. etc. but our next bikes will NOT be white. Unless those dirt rails to trails firm up we don't have much interest in riding them again. Not only was it a lot of work but we ended up with sand and grit everywhere. Cleaning bikes is time consuming but I always maintain things, almost to a fault. I was a professional pilot for 27 years and know the importance of maintenance. I can see what's going to happen here. I will demand the best bearings, cassettes, wheels, tires etc. etc. I am doomed.... but happy

h2oxtc

Sounds to me like you've already come a long way. I would agree with the others above, ride for the enjoyment and don't stress about 'x' miles, etc.

No one has mentioned or replied to your comment about clipless pedals. A definite NO in my opinion for the type of bikes you're riding and experience level.

Enjoy the bikes and saddles you have and ride for pleasure. If pedaling in the small sprocket keeps your wife happy, that's great. When she's ready to progress, she'll be ready to explore shifting to the middle and large chain rings.

My 2 cents (Canadian - about 1.5 cents US)

DBrown9383

Yup, I don't think cross chaining is as big an issue as some make it to be... at least from what I've read on these forums. There is no rub and no noise.. I like your opinion on the clipless pedals. We don't want to fall over and get hurt. I can already feel some roughness in the cheap pedals that came on the bikes though. The LBS says they are o.k..... until they aren't.. I sprayed some lube on them and it helped a little but I don't see anyway to take them apart and grease them

BlazingPedals

Really??? I've been told on good authority that saddles shouldn't hurt - ever. My experience mirrors your words above, though. I'd recommend several weeks of doing 10-mile rides a few times a week. Increase the number of rides before trying to do longer rides. As for calories burned - figure 35 cal/mile, no matter what the computer may say. A computer can't possibly know unless it has weight, bodyfat%, and heart rate info, and even then it's only an estimate.

We don't need to mention the "R" word until they're ready to graduate to the next level.

Pedals: even good ones can come with insufficient grease and the bearings mis-adjusted.

OldsCOOL

The more you ride the less your butt hurts. Cycling fact.

Doug64

You are in great bike path country. Michigan has over 1400 miles of rails-to-trails multiple-use paths.

My wife and I did a loop around the Lower Peninsula a couple of years ago and were amazed at the amount of bike trails we ran across. The trails will firm up, and make for great riding. Just keep at it, and things will get better.

This was in the fall, and the trails were wet, but not soggy. We used 32 mm tires for this trip.

DBrown9383

Thanks for the encouraging posts from everyone. It's fun learning all this stuff. It's funny that as a teenager we took our bikes for granted and of course there was little info (no internet). To do a bike trip like Doug's is a long ways off for us but I find myself wanting to ride every day, even if for just a few laps around the neighborhood. We rode golf course cart paths today but my wife was still in pain from that last ride. We really did over do it going 20miles on soft dirt but I'm proud of her for not giving up, after all it was HER idea to get bikes!

Jimbosays

Do a bunch of daily/semi-daily 5-10 mile rides over paved surfaces to break-in your body before moving on up the mileage scale . . . Your rear-end (and wife) will thank you . . . And both will tell you when it is time to go further! ;-)

Good bike short/bibs with a quality chamois pad are good thing too . . . Just Sayin'!

curlyque

It's also likely that you and your wife will not improve at the same rate. I believe that the slower person should always be in the lead, if not side by side. Easy to pull away, discouraging to try and catch up.

DBrown9383

This is already evident. We went for a short ride yesterday but there were some hills that required a fair amount of effort. My wife got off and walked several times. She is still sore from the 20mi. soft dirt ride. I need to be aware of the pace and slow down when she does or get off and walk WITH her instead of continuing on ahead. I was at the LBS today and looked at a really nice Cannondale road bike with all shimano integra gear on it. This could get expensive. The owner of the store made a comment that I might already be ready for an upgrade. He's not pushing me to buy new bikes at all but like was mentioned earlier,he was more than happy to work on the cheap Schwinn networks we bought from Amazon.com knowing full well we might become life long customers. I almost splurged on padded biking shorts but didn't. I had to bring my bike back because of a loose bottom bracket. I could move the front sprocket assembly and cranks in and out a good quarter of an inch. He's going to take it all apart and re-assemble it correctly. I thought it just needed tightened but apparently it's more complicated than that. This guy really knows what he's doing and I trust him. He told me he'd probably work on bikes for free if he didn't own a shop. If someone brings in a bike for a brake problem and he notices a derailer problem while working on the bike he can't help himself and fixes the derailer for no charge. I get a chuckle out of that because I would probably do the same.

KenshiBiker

DBrown meet Slippery Slope; Slippery Slope meet DBrown. You are now well acquainted with the concept of "n+1".

BTW - Welcome to 50+

VegasTriker

If you don't want to be always going to the bike shop, it is time to buy a few bike tools so you can do repairs yourself. The tools are almost always less expensive than one trip to the bike shop for a repair. There are two excellent websites that will give you simple instructions on how to maintain your bikes Park Tool Co. » Park Tool Co. and Sheldon Brown-Bicycle Technical Information. Here's what they show for the repair you just paid for:
Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Adjustable Type Bottom Bracket Service and the tools to accomplish it are Park HCW-5 Double-Ended Lock Ring Spanner and perhaps a tool to remove and reinstall the crank arm on the side with the locking ring Avenir Octalink Crank Puller (these are specific to the crank and axle set so you need to match the type with the tool). Ditto for the pedals but you don't need any special tools other than a 15mm wrench to remove the pedal from the crank arm. Just for fun recently I tested about a dozen pedals in the local WalMart and not one of them turned freely right out of the package. Every pedal was too tight.

Bike repair is not rocket science if you have the tools. The other place for instructions is YouTube. There are thousands of videos on bike repair. All you need to know is the right terms to ask. Try using the term "bottom bracket maintenance" in the YouTube search box.

It is worth investing in some tools so you don't have to go to a bike shop every time you need to do maintenance or repairs. I now own quite a few but the following are the minimum I would want to have:
tire levers and tire repair kit to remove tire in case of a flat and fix flats.
multitool - compact tool with most of the things you need for emergency repair Tools, Lubes, & Cleaners - Tools - Bike Multi-Tools - Niagara Cycle (some have tire levers attached to the side of the tool) I carry one of these with me at all times.
cone wrench Park DCW-2 15x16mm Double-Ended Cone Wrench used to adjust the cones on the front and rear wheel so you can lubricate the bearings and set the pressure on the bearings correctly. A properly adjusted wheel turns easily and smoothly. A lot of inexpensive bikes don't come set up that way. These come in a couple sizes. I own 13/14 15/16 and 17/18 mm versions so I can adjust the cones any wheel.
simple chain tool Cyclo Rivoli Bicycle Chain Breaker Tool, Universal 8/9S If you need to remove a chain that does not have a master link, this is a necessity. If your chain has a master link, a master link tool makes disconnecting the master link a breeze Evo Master Link Pliers I use this one to take apart the chain for cleaning or replacing (after thousands of miles).

I also own tools to remove the cranks from the axle that is inside the bottom bracket, a tool to hold the cassette so you can take the cassette on the rear wheel off, a tool to open the locking ring on the cassette, a good cable cutter for brake and shift cable replacement, a pedal wrench. You can accumulate tools as you need them.

Don't buy a very expensive bike until you and your wife have had some experience riding so you have a better idea of what you really might need. "We don't need to mention the "R" word until they're ready to graduate to the next level." by Blazing Pedals If you really want sticker shock, take a look at an "R" bike/trike as Blazing Pedals avoided suggesting. It ends once and for all the search for a cure for tender butt, numb hands, and stiff neck, or special bike clothing. For some of us it has increased our annual mileage by a factor of 10. I can ride a regular bike for a couple miles but wouldn't consider sitting on a conventional saddle for a couple hours. OUCH! My conventional bikes are pretty old but well above entry level.

DBrown9383

I give up, what is the "R" word? I'm guessing recumbent?... I actually considered one but not quite sure how to transport it and they are pretty pricey. We will ride what we have for awhile and see how it goes but tools are ALWAYS a good investment.. O.K.. I looked at some recumbents.. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

BlazingPedals

You do NOT need a nice Cannondale road bike to do trails. A fast bike will just let you drop your wife and get you in trouble. All you need is a hybrid or mountain bike. Which you have. More expensive models will be lighter and shift better, but that's about it. If you want to upgrade something, first get your wife - not you - some slightly skinnier slick tires that will roll better and let her keep up with you more easily.

The cost of a lightly-used, low-end recumbent wouldn't necessarily make your eyes water, and most can be transported on a hitch rack. You probably wouldn't end up with a matched set, but they're like weights - a lot of people buy them with good intentions and then don't use them; and you can snarf them up for cheap.

DBrown9383

True, I do not NEED a carbon quick Cannondale but there is no harm in oogling the pictures.