Am I a Luddite?
#26
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About 25-30 years too late to complain about that newfangled S.I.S..
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#27
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To those Modernistas that say that they need nine-ten-11-speed clusters, I have to ask 'Why?' Do you really have more gear choices than a 3x6(-7)??? Since I've never been a racer and am more of a sport-tourer, my preferred cadence/gear is more like a 81 inch-gear. So the more gears I have near that ratio, the better.
#28
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Yes, you probably are. But it is your bike; your ride. As long as you are riding, who cares?
#30
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Several mentions of not "needing" this or that. Unless you are one of the invisible cyclists who ride bikes out of necessity because you can't afford a car and no public transportation is available where you are, what the heck does "need" have to do with anything?
#31
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Bill
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#33
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To those Modernistas that say that they need nine-ten-11-speed clusters, I have to ask 'Why?' Do you really have more gear choices than a 3x6(-7)??? Since I've never been a racer and am more of a sport-tourer, my preferred cadence/gear is more like a 81 inch-gear. So the more gears I have near that ratio, the better.
Like BD said, "What does need have to do with it"?
Oh, wtf is a "modernista"?
#34
Senior Member
I've always been happy with the 3x9 systems on my bents. The only thing that would get me to change would be if the new 10/11 speed systems got a bit more durable so I could consider going to a 36/52 front and 11-36 rear, which would give me the same range as my current triples.
#35
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Thread Starter
Every time I try to adjust indexed shifters, they simply do not work. I've read the procedures, I've gotten instructions from a bike mechanic, I've read all the setup instructions I can get my hands on. Whenever I set them up, I can either get all but the lowest or all but the highest gear. The deraileur arm just does not go far enough. And I don't mean on SOME of them--- it's ALL of them. Every one I have tried. Oddly, trigger shifters on geared hubs don't give me any problems. Friction shifters may not be as precise--- I may not always know the gear I'm in--- but they always work, and I can always get all the cogs. I've rebuilt many motorcycles, and many bikes, so I really do not think My procedures or precision is at fault. They (indexed) always fail. Friction has always worked. If they work for you all, fine, go for it. I'm not crtical; they just do not meet my expectations for reliability.
#36
Senior Member
Every time I try to adjust indexed shifters, they simply do not work. I've read the procedures, I've gotten instructions from a bike mechanic, I've read all the setup instructions I can get my hands on. Whenever I set them up, I can either get all but the lowest or all but the highest gear. The deraileur arm just does not go far enough. And I don't mean on SOME of them--- it's ALL of them. Every one I have tried. Oddly, trigger shifters on geared hubs don't give me any problems. Friction shifters may not be as precise--- I may not always know the gear I'm in--- but they always work, and I can always get all the cogs. I've rebuilt many motorcycles, and many bikes, so I really do not think My procedures or precision is at fault. They (indexed) always fail. Friction has always worked. If they work for you all, fine, go for it. I'm not crtical; they just do not meet my expectations for reliability.
J.
#37
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Thread Starter
Last time was on a new bike maybe three years ago. It was a Shimano system, but I don't remember what exactly. It belonged to a friend of mine, and would not shift to the low gear cog. He took it back to the shop where he bought it, and they ended up swapping the rear deraileur. A couple of months later, it still would not go into low gear. Like I said, if it works for you, great. A pet peeve of mine is mechanical crap that does not do what I bought it to do. Any more, I just do not waste time on it.
#38
Senior Member
Last time was on a new bike maybe three years ago. It was a Shimano system, but I don't remember what exactly. It belonged to a friend of mine, and would not shift to the low gear cog. He took it back to the shop where he bought it, and they ended up swapping the rear deraileur. A couple of months later, it still would not go into low gear. Like I said, if it works for you, great. A pet peeve of mine is mechanical crap that does not do what I bought it to do. Any more, I just do not waste time on it.
Incidentally, cable stretch on a friction shifter can also prevent you from being able to shift all the way to the largest sprocket on the rear. That's not unique to indexed shifting.
J.
#39
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Then it's just an adjustment - probably just a couple of clicks on the adjustment barrel. Either that, or your friend is damaging RD's somehow. This stuff has been bulletproof for at about 25 years based on bikes I own or, if you will, the millions of bikes sold to others.
Incidentally, cable stretch on a friction shifter can also prevent you from being able to shift all the way to the largest sprocket on the rear. That's not unique to indexed shifting.
J.
Incidentally, cable stretch on a friction shifter can also prevent you from being able to shift all the way to the largest sprocket on the rear. That's not unique to indexed shifting.
J.
OP ... if you're using decent quality index-shifting (and I mean only decent ... not great), you should have none of the problems you're mentioning. Index shifting is pretty much bulletproof at this point.
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#40
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I think the problem the BSO stuff the big-box stores offer is the lack of a set up, its pretty much non-existent, as far as any indexing is concerned. And, you are correct, Vic, the stuff offered is Shimano's bargain basement hall of shame. The twist grip so many of these have should be outlawed, or put on the bikes for executives at WalMart, to be forced to ride.
Bill
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I Can Do All Things Through Him, Who Gives Me Strength. Philippians 4:13
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I Can Do All Things Through Him, Who Gives Me Strength. Philippians 4:13
#41
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I want to say up front that I DO own a Moto Guzzi ('03 California), so you could make that argument. As to my bicycles, I hate indexed shifters. That's the first thing to go when I get a bike. I tried them for a while, but I just can't justify them. Inevitably, when they get out of whack (De indexed?) they are such a pain to get to work properly, that I just ditch them for stem mount friction levers. As a teen in the '70s, I learned the move it, listen, adjust 'till the rattle goes to zero. To me it's second nature. The only click shifters that seem to work for me, long term, are for geared hubs. In fact, I'm looking for the right fixie to fit with my 26" wheelset with a Shimano Nexus 7-speed hub, but that's a different story. Anyway, I do not trust indexed shifters--- they answer questions I never asked.
-I like steel frames. Reynolds, columbus, True Temper, and what they used to make the higher end Bridgestones. All good.
-No computer.
-Toe clips, straps.
-I ride a fixie. (Say it with me: "At your age!?!?" Yes, people actually say this. )
I am in the market to buy a high end steel road bike, from the 70s, early to mid 80s. BEFORE the advent of indexed shifting, preferably.
I just do not like all this "new stuff", and I like your philosophy: It answers questions that were never asked.
Likes: All the new lighting technology. Headlights we can actually use. Anyone who rode in the 70s know what am
talking about here.
Anyway, I guess I can qualify for a Luddite hat too.
#42
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IMO The real luddites in cycling are members of the UCI. They stubborngly cling the to "safety bike" of the 19th century. Their failure to recognize all types of bikes including bents, and host bent and trike races, makes them the leading luddites of the cycling community.
#43
Senior Member
I would think NOT a liddite, as you are using a computer, on the internet, in a social media setting. We all have preferences.
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I have NEVER regretted going on a ride;
I have often regretted not going when I could have!
I am grateful for the headwind that challenged me today!
I am grateful for the tailwind that helped me go fast!
Clydesdales and Athenas Strava Club
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#45
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A Luddite..... posting in the 50+ forum... not likely. Ned Ludd was a youth when he opposed the new machinery of the time. Being older and refusing to adapt to change... is mere stubbornness... which is a virtue.
#46
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Leddite? Doing the Bron-y-Aur Stomp when you should be spinning??
#47
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Bar end friction shifters on my newly restored, 34 y/o Fuji road bike. Gonna be keeping this ride around forever just to remind me what the bad old days were really like. It works as well as ever and I actually enjoy it for the occasional nostalgia outing but no way for daily use anymore. Kinda like an old Chevy with 2-spd PowerGlide. Wife's ancient Nishiki has stem shifters. That/them be even more amusing.
#48
~>~
Are you looking for an "Atta-Boy" and validation as a "Luddite" for an obsolescence preference or a technical argument that was settled in the '80's by competitive cyclists and recreational riders since for decades? It takes a deep and abiding mechanical incompetence to make a post 1984 indexed shifting system not click reliably along through 6/7/8/9/10 cogs with DT, barcon or brifter controls.
Luddite? Use what you prefer but you need a competent mechanic instead of seeking to be cycling's Ned Ludd.
Unless riding a proper FG on the road Ludd_Lite is the best one can hope for with all those silly temperamental gears and freewheeling.
-Bandera
Luddite? Use what you prefer but you need a competent mechanic instead of seeking to be cycling's Ned Ludd.
Unless riding a proper FG on the road Ludd_Lite is the best one can hope for with all those silly temperamental gears and freewheeling.
-Bandera
Last edited by Bandera; 05-11-15 at 09:29 AM.
#49
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^ Great post!
The only thing that goes wrong with indexed shifters is the initial "stretch" with new cables. After a couple hundred miles, the slack needs taken out. It's very simple but if someone can't for it, it takes only a few minutes at a bike shop. After that there isn't anything else to do.
What surspries me is how non-indexed doesn't cause problems but indexed does. Ask a bike store mechanic go explain it - one click is one gear shift.
The only thing that goes wrong with indexed shifters is the initial "stretch" with new cables. After a couple hundred miles, the slack needs taken out. It's very simple but if someone can't for it, it takes only a few minutes at a bike shop. After that there isn't anything else to do.
What surspries me is how non-indexed doesn't cause problems but indexed does. Ask a bike store mechanic go explain it - one click is one gear shift.
#50
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What about the luddites mentioned on other threads that dont want to go to disc brakes?
OTOH while I love the idea and mechanics of disc brakes, I think hydraulics disc brakes are needless complication.
OTOH while I love the idea and mechanics of disc brakes, I think hydraulics disc brakes are needless complication.