kbarch

Some people are 'goal oriented,' and some are 'process oriented,' but in any event, things like bucket lists seem kind of silly to me, like those lists of places and things one MUST SEE BEFORE YOU DIE.

Lists are not plans, and these kinds of lists are merely affirmations of desires or opinions. They can help one sort through and prioritize options, but only make sense if the thing or activity is important to begin with.

For instance, the fascination with bucket lists seems to indicate a kind of acquisitiveness - a desire to accumulate notable "experiences" and knowledge of the wider world. People often seem to believe that acquiring such knowledge is noble, but as Pascal put it in the context of travel: Curiosity is only vanity. We usually only want to know something so that we can talk about it. Frankly, it strikes me as rather ignoble to commit oneself to accumulating experiences before one dies if one can't put such knowledge and experience to use somehow. It's like dying a greedy miser, only worse - you can't leave your experiences to anyone in your will.

OldTryGuy

mea culpa

Doug64

A little OT:

I don’t pretend to know why other people choose to travel. I can only use my autobiography and those of friends. I am not talking about just traveling to xxxx; I’m talking about traveling by bicycle. I don’t know of anyone who rode their bike across the country that did not say the trip enriched their lives in some way. When traveling by bike, “the Journey is truly the destination.” When someone asks my wife or me , “what was the best part of your trip”; our usual relpy is, “ the people we met”.

I believe that traveling anywhere for three months on a bike will change your viewpoint of the world and people in a positive way. There are people who get it and there are some that never will; and it is pretty easy to tell who is who. I’ve seen that understanding in the smile and eyes of a little old lady who has probably never seen an American cyclist, or any cyclist for that matter, riding a bike loaded down with panniers. She understood what we were doing, and approved. I can almost say with certainty that Pascal never crossed a continent on a bicycle.

I also believe that doing anything that pushes me outside my comfort zone helps me grow as a person. It is almost impossible to gain skills, knowledge, or experiences that will not be used in some way. Experiencing an activity that pushes physical and mental limis, transfers into almost any area of a person’s life. How can riding an average of 50 miles a day for 74 consecutive days not make you stronger both physically and mentally. Wouldn’t you be outside your comfort zone cycling for extended periods in areas where you are reliant on the things carried on your bike, where there is no cell coverage or handy bike shops, are unable to read the road signs or menus, and unable to communicate effectively because of language differences. The self reliance and confidence gained from this type of experience are assets in any situation.

Knowledge and experience make you the person you are, for better or worse. I find it much easier to gain knowledge and experience while I am alive. What is the option, being in a “place” wearing blinders and using earplugs? Sure, we talk about our ventures; that is who we are. However, I’d enjoy listening to your stories much more than telling you mine.

John_V 

We got back from a two week river cruise, in August, that covered 5 countries, including Germany. There were bicycle paths everywhere, especially along the river. It seemed as if you could bike along the river through each country we visited. I drooled the entire time we were there. I love cycling; no matter where it's at or how short or long the ride is. While we were there, I saw several advertisements for cycling river cruises. They are the same as a regular river cruise except you do all the touring on bikes rather than buses and walking. I wouldn't say that I would put this on my "Bucket List", but I sure wouldn't mind doing one of those cruises before I'm too old to ride a bike.

John_V 

I've never done a three month journey on a bike but certainly would love to try it. On a smaller scale, my son-in-laws best friend does the Florida Coast 2 Coast ride every year. Many years ago, when he found out I was a cycling addict, he tried talking me into doing this ride. Each year since then, I kept finding new reasons why I shouldn't do this ride. Last year, at age 68, I finally gave in and signed up for the 210 mile ride. I can say, without a doubt, that I could kick myself in the a$$ for waiting so long to do it. It was by far the best thing I have done for myself in years. Meeting new people with the same passion as you, new friendships, sharing the hardships of other riders and the feeling of accomplishment that we all got when we put our front wheels into the Gulf of Mexico was something to experience. This years ride is on October 23rd, and my bike and I will be there, ready to do it all over again.

Gerryattrick

Thanks for those insightful comments.

I was planning on going over the pub for a few pints tonight and possibly, among other topics such as the Rugby and Syria, chat about the holiday we've just booked in Venice, but I now realise that would demonstrate my pathetic acquisitiveness and vanity. I'll just open a few cans in the house while watching TV.

Barrettscv 

“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one’s lifetime.” —Mark Twain

ltxi

Ahhh....done everything I wanted to do, and a lot of stuff I shouldn't have/didn't. I be ready to die now. Not as negative as it sounds. Feel most free to do any weird ass thing I feel like without consequence worries.

kbarch

Well, I can say so with absolute certainty. To begin with, the modern safety bicycle wasn't even invented until about 200 years after he died. As a youth, he invented the calculator, not the brifter.

I didn't mean to denigrate travel any more than I meant to denigrate knowledge of any kind. But like anything, it's what you make of it. What good is the approval of some old woman in a foreign country if you can't even appreciate a good movie at home - a movie that has the potential to change your life if you let it?
I have no idea what may be worthwhile or what may be pointless self-indulgence for anyone. It could be travel, it could be rugby, it could be a university education, or it could be cycling. Nothing is necessarily pathetic, but it's not worthwhile or noble just because we think it's interesting or has some kind of prestige or because we "get something out of it" - we have to do something with it besides talk about it and cross it off our list. Not that there's anything WRONG with that....

cccorlew

I did the bucket list summer bike mania back in 2011. I convinced my wife that because I was 60 I was going to die soon and I wanted one last big event. We rode in Calif, Oregon, Washington, Victoria Canada, Idaho and did two week-long Adventure Cycling rides that included Yellowstone and the Washington Cascades.

But I didn't die. So now were planning a 19 day ride from Lake Tahoe to Portland Oregon via Mt. Lassen and Crater Lake this summer.

Make it work for you.

BlazingPedals

Better yet, maybe we should just all die now rather than demonstrate how vain and shallow we are.

tg16

I think I'll respectfully disagree. I spent a lifetime doing meaningful things at work and in raising my children. Now its my turn to enjoy myself. It is noble to me if it makes me feel good. As for the old lady smiling. That may have been misinterpreted. Most of us have pretty well developed legs and glutes. That may have been what she was smiling at.

Rowan

You know, one of the really nice things about life is being able to have fun. Fun means as many different things as there are people. But probably the worst thing you can do is piss on someone's fun because you want to comment but have no understanding... unless, of course, that is how you get your jollies.

There are many things people can leave behind "in their will" based on their experiences. People might write down what they have been through, and that could end up being a book or a movie that changes other people's lives. It can be through passing on knowledge and wisdom to younger generations, providing them with an education. It can be through pictures, either photographs, or through art. And even using that observation about Pascal... he left behind something that has endured centuries, because people who make discoveries, often in collaboration with people in other countries, add to our lives.

Frankly, I take the view that my life is enriched if I learn something new each day (irrespective of how mundane or outstanding it might be) as well as have some fun doing the things I enjoy. That way I can cope with the less-desirable aspects of my life.

kbarch

Hmm.... What does "noble to me" mean? If it's entirely about oneself, independent of any shared principle, value or commonly known fact, how could anyone else possibly understand? It may not be important whether anyone ever actually understands (let alone agrees with one in any particular situation), but if understanding were impossible or unwanted, that would be an awful thing. It seems to me that the idea of mutual understanding and the possibility of a shared will is the foundation of our value of human life.

There's something more to taking your turn to enjoy yourself, isn't there? Perhaps you agree with Rowan.

Well put.

Now back to the thread title: a good life doesn't require a ticket or an itinerary, and while having one may help, it doesn't necessarily make one better.

Gerryattrick

+1

Well put!

(The last reply missed this pertinent part out of Rowan's post so I fixed the error.)

Dave Cutter

I have no bucket list yet myself.... but I have no problem with those that do... for whatever reason. I do have some things I really hope to see and do yet while I am still alive and well. They are of course for my own selfish enjoyment.

I could get hit while out cycling this afternoon... and never return home or ever create a "bucket list". Or maybe... get hit this afternoon and due to complications... realize if there are any loose ends in my life I will have an immediate need to tie them down. For this I would make one last list to accomplish my final preparations before I kick the bucket.

Years ago. I sold men's suits. It was common for elderly or sickly older men to stop in (often times with there spouse) and select a last suit. From time-to-time (even though the pants were unfinished) no alteration ticket was needed. These were suits to be worn for a showing. And... they would be worn soon.

I have a suit that will look fine in a coffin.
My papers are organized and filed.
I would compile a current up-to-date list of POC's names, phone numbers, mailing and emailing addresses.
My wife would need a scanner (its a wifi combo printer-scanner) icon on her desktop. (very low on the list priority).
I have some old friends I'd like to meet with (if possible) and say goodbye to.

A little thinking would certain expand on this list.... I am sure. And MAYBE a last (even if questionable) bike ride would be on the list. I have extra bicycles... and if time is limited anyway.....

kbarch

Oh, maybe that was the part you liked, but I didn't cut it out by mistake.

But since you brought it up, you know one can be direct or indirect in "pissing on someone's fun". Not that anyone here was doing so, but making claims about the importance of ones own form of fun, recreation, or proper use of retirement - all this "MUST see/do before you die" nonsense going around these days, exaggerated claims about how necessary it is to visit certain exotic places and so on is really just an indirect way of pissing on folks who have fun or make a good life without doing those things.

Now the kind of bucket list Dave Cutter describes is thoughtful and sensible, but probably not as much fun as going sky diving, hiking to Machu Picchu and such. Seriously, I never imagined people went shopping for suits to wear in their own coffin!

Doug64

You really don't get it !

Here are two items on the "life list" I made when I retired that have nothing at all to do with travel: "Help homeless/hungry" and "Volunteer school bike program". Travel is a very small component of my future plans. However, how I travel is: "Complete one long bike tour annually" and "Complete a short tour with daughters annually".

Mental lists like Dave Cutter and others have or a written list can have very little to do with "traveling to exotic places". I really don't give a rip what you do in your life. It's your "list".

BlazingPedals

I don't see a bucket list as something someone MUST do, but rather what they would LIKE to do. After all, nobody MUST submit to the list!

kbarch

Yes, I DO get what you have in mind, and that's all fine, of course. I've only been describing why I find a different kind of bucket list annoying - lists like this: 25 Things You Absolutely Positively Must Do Before You Die
and this:
Travel Bucket List: 100 Places to Visit Before You Die
Lists like these are all over the place these days, and it seems to me that the folks who call them bucket lists are the ones who don't get it.

You're right, of course, and I suppose it's just an overused figure of speech, but the suggestion is that by not at least attempting to cross off items on such lists, one is failing to be a better person, and that's rather annoying.

Doug64

In this context, I can understand your point. I don't think we can figure out what people really mean with e-mails and forum posts. There is too much room for interpretation. There is also a high probability that the term "bucket list" means totally different things to different people. I apologize for getting a little "defensively aggressive."

This thread and many other threads on this forum reminds me of a concept that is attributed to Sigmund Freud:

"Narcissism of small differences: The need to distinguish oneself by minute shadings, and to insist with outsized militancy on the importance of those shadings."

I'm guilty!

FrenchFit 

This is a very curious phenomena. I live in a region with 7.4 million people. But, if I travel I will come back with fascinating stories of the people I meet?. But, I do not have these stories about the 7.4 million people that are locals, I have to go find them somewhere else?

Perhaps whats going on is you open yourself to people and experiences when you travel, otherwise...not.. Makes me think of Kafka:

"You do not need to leave your room. Remain sitting at your table and listen. Do not even listen, simply wait, be quiet still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet."

Barrettscv 

It's healthy to look within to find the universality of life. However, its no substitute for discovering both the extremes and the common while seeing new people and places. My priorities have been: family, education, travel, profession, cycling and food. Most of my accomplishments came after age 45, including a BS degree from a prestigious university at age 50.

If I faced death today, I would feel that life was thrilling and worthwhile. However, I have plenty to accomplish and a dozen active years to spend before even thinking about slowing down.

Gerryattrick

I love travelling and meeting people, whether they are locals or travellers like me, but it's not the main reason I travel.

I'm amused by the number of people who say that they really love getting to meet the "real" locals on their travels when it's quite possible that they never make the effort to meet any people at home outside their social or working group.

What's the difference between a "peasant" abroad or a labourer, factory worker or farm worker at home?

Doug64

I have bike toured in a lot of places, including extensively in the U.S. and Canada, and I met good and interesting people from 2 blocks to thousands of miles from my home. Interesting people are everywhere, and the bike is the icebreaker that makes a cyclist much more approachable than someone in a car. People are not afraid to talk to someone on a bike. You don't have to travel very far to experience this.