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Old 05-26-05, 01:36 AM   #1
greywolf
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Do 50+ bones break easier ??

Well I done it again ,fell off my MTB in the worst rainstorm weve had in 110 yrs & broke my left wrist ! so thatlle be 6weeks off work & off the bike. last year I crashed also in a storm & broke my hip, Im still suffering from that one ! Im now looking for exersice that will stop me getting too unfit ,till I can get back on a bike again, running/jogging is out because of the hip,any ideas are welcome
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Old 05-26-05, 07:07 AM   #2
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I"ve been told that heavy resistance exercises, or weight lifting, will make for strong bones. I suppose you can do your own Web research to confirm or debunk.

Personally speaking, I lift heavy. Two days ago I took a hard spill off my motorcycle. I was doing about 25 mph when I high sided, then hit, slid down the trail bumping into rocks. I ended up with my foot cut up inside my boot due to impacts. While I was unable to raise my left leg sufficiently to get on the bike due to a hurt back, a few days later now and I'm all ok. While I am not you, I'm fairly sure that if I had porous or brittle bones, I'd not have escaped with a one day sore back.

I also eat yoghurt which has a lot of calcium.
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Old 05-26-05, 01:37 PM   #3
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I would add vitamin D and magnesium to slide's excellent prescription of calcium and weight-bearing exercise.
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Old 05-28-05, 03:03 AM   #4
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Thanks for the advise , Im going to use a wind trainer kindly loaned to me by 62vette & will be doing some extented walks coupled with swissball/bean exercise's. I do have a set of weights d/bell &b/bell which i have'nt used for some time but of course the use of these would be a bit awkward with one arm in plaster. I am doing squats against the wall with the swiss ball at the moment & am contemplating puting some light weights in a back pack to do squats ect, its just getting motivated enough
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Old 05-28-05, 07:45 AM   #5
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weight bearing exercises do stimulate bone health. I work in a radiology department. You can look at an x-ray and tell alot about an individuals bone health. For example...a person whom spends alot of time in a wheel chair...say for reasons related to chronic illness.....and when they are not in the wheel chair then they are in bed the rest of the time.....well these individuals often demonstrate very poor bone density. Their bones appear radioluscent on the image because the bones are lacking proper mineralization. These bones appear paper thin and are certainly more fragile....meaning much greater risk for fracture. These individuals are at a much higjher risk for fracture...and when they do fracture...they will also have greater difficulties in getting the bone to heal..and they are at greater risk for complication. My belief is that their poor bone health is directly related to their lack of weight bearing activity..and poor nutrition too.

With patients whom are active and spend a great amount of time on their feet it is the exact opposite. These patients show very dense bone on x-ray. The bones are full of mineralization and appear very white on x-ray. This is because the bone is so dense that the x-rays are absorbed by the bone(radiopaque) and never make it to the film to expose the emulsion. In the poor bone density patients...the x-rays are not absorbed by the bone because the density of the bone is not enough to offer any signifigant resistance to the x-rays. The x-rays pass right through the anatomy and expose the film emulsion...giving the bone a grey unhealthy appearance on x-ray images.

So in my experience through my job(17 years) It has been proven to me that weight bearing activities not only improve bone health...but also keeps the bone healthy(preventive medicine/maintenance). Further...poor bone health is much more prominent in the female population than in the male groups. This is surely related to hormonal issues that women face after menopause.

I also believe that weight bearing exercises serve to 'stimulate' bone health..and my belief is that maximum stimulation comes from the impact and jarring associated with weight bearing activity. For example when you are jogging there is 'impact' involved. During a run the bones are exposed to certain stresses as a result of this low level trauma. Here is where 'stimulation' is achieved. Stimulate is a verb...action! Over time the body must adapt to such stresses by becoming stronger. This means increased bone density via mineralization. So it is my opinion that weight bearing exercises that lack this low level trauma may not be as good for bone health as those that do. So my opinion is that cycling and weight training(low impact) may not be as good as running for example. That said...I do believe that weight training and cycling are good for bone health. The important thing is to stay active and give your body a proper diet that includes a wide spectrum of vital nutrients. Also...you have a big advantage if you are male versus female. Finally, I have seen some x-rays on patients in their 70's who had better bone health that other patients much younger...so you certainly can fight biology and chronology with exercise.

Lest we forget that genetics probably play a great role in all this. we'll learn more about genetics in the coming decade.
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Old 05-28-05, 10:57 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by greywolf
Well I done it again ,fell off my MTB in the worst rainstorm weve had in 110 yrs & broke my left wrist ! so thatlle be 6weeks off work & off the bike. last year I crashed also in a storm & broke my hip, Im still suffering from that one ! Im now looking for exersice that will stop me getting too unfit ,till I can get back on a bike again, running/jogging is out because of the hip,any ideas are welcome
cheers
Well, it depends. There are some skinny girls out there whose bones can break with very little effort.

If you really want to know how strong your bones are, get a bone density scan. God knows, they should require every person after 40 years to get one once a year so you can see how dense your bones are.

To increase bone density, you could do resistance training and/or increase the impact of your exercise. This may mean for increasing impact, you may have to do something like run, or if you belong to a gym, take a cardio impact class or a step class.

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Old 05-28-05, 02:03 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by koffee brown

If you really want to know how strong your bones are, get a bone density scan. God knows, they should require every person after 40 years to get one once a year so you can see how dense your bones are.
Why? I got offered one for free when I set up a center for scanning bone density. The guy said why not find out what yours is? I said why bother since you can't improve it. He agreed. Personally, I think the entire bone density scan is a scam.
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Old 05-28-05, 02:08 PM   #8
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Well, I guess if you want to walk around not knowing if you have osteoperosis, go on ahead. Just don't slip and fall...

The point here is that you CAN improve bone density. What, doctors don't know the benefit of exercise STILL? Sheesh, it's the 21st century already!

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Old 05-28-05, 05:50 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by oneradtec
weight bearing exercises do stimulate bone health. I work in a radiology department. You can look at an x-ray and tell alot about an individuals bone health. For example...a person whom spends alot of time in a wheel chair...say for reasons related to chronic illness.....and when they are not in the wheel chair then they are in bed the rest of the time.....well these individuals often demonstrate very poor bone density. Their bones appear radioluscent on the image because the bones are lacking proper mineralization. These bones appear paper thin and are certainly more fragile....meaning much greater risk for fracture. These individuals are at a much higjher risk for fracture...and when they do fracture...they will also have greater difficulties in getting the bone to heal..and they are at greater risk for complication. My belief is that their poor bone health is directly related to their lack of weight bearing activity..and poor nutrition too.

With patients whom are active and spend a great amount of time on their feet it is the exact opposite. These patients show very dense bone on x-ray. The bones are full of mineralization and appear very white on x-ray. This is because the bone is so dense that the x-rays are absorbed by the bone(radiopaque) and never make it to the film to expose the emulsion. In the poor bone density patients...the x-rays are not absorbed by the bone because the density of the bone is not enough to offer any signifigant resistance to the x-rays. The x-rays pass right through the anatomy and expose the film emulsion...giving the bone a grey unhealthy appearance on x-ray images.

So in my experience through my job(17 years) It has been proven to me that weight bearing activities not only improve bone health...but also keeps the bone healthy(preventive medicine/maintenance). Further...poor bone health is much more prominent in the female population than in the male groups. This is surely related to hormonal issues that women face after menopause.

I also believe that weight bearing exercises serve to 'stimulate' bone health..and my belief is that maximum stimulation comes from the impact and jarring associated with weight bearing activity. For example when you are jogging there is 'impact' involved. During a run the bones are exposed to certain stresses as a result of this low level trauma. Here is where 'stimulation' is achieved. Stimulate is a verb...action! Over time the body must adapt to such stresses by becoming stronger. This means increased bone density via mineralization. So it is my opinion that weight bearing exercises that lack this low level trauma may not be as good for bone health as those that do. So my opinion is that cycling and weight training(low impact) may not be as good as running for example. That said...I do believe that weight training and cycling are good for bone health. The important thing is to stay active and give your body a proper diet that includes a wide spectrum of vital nutrients. Also...you have a big advantage if you are male versus female. Finally, I have seen some x-rays on patients in their 70's who had better bone health that other patients much younger...so you certainly can fight biology and chronology with exercise.

Lest we forget that genetics probably play a great role in all this. we'll learn more about genetics in the coming decade.
Since you work in Radiology, is a CT scan very good for finding out what's wrong with a knee? I've had some problems with my right knee. The Doc thought I'd pulled a muscle, but over a week ago it wouldn't support me. I have a pacemaker, so they can't do an MRI. I heard the Radiologist wanted to do a different type of test, but the Doc turned them down.
I think our bones do break a bit easier as we get older, and take longer to mend, so we need to do everything we can to keep our bone structure strong.
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Old 05-28-05, 07:10 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by slide
Why? I got offered one for free when I set up a center for scanning bone density. The guy said why not find out what yours is? I said why bother since you can't improve it. He agreed. Personally, I think the entire bone density scan is a scam.
You need to get current on your knowledge and stop practicing medicine without that knowledge.

Drugs such as Fosamax are very effective in assisting increases in bone density. My son has gone from osteoporosis to osteopenia in the last few years as a result of Fosamax and proper calcium supplements, etc. The drug Forteo is new (have you heard about it?) and quite effective in reversing osteoporosis.

If you have opened a center for bone density scanning, you at least should be current on the latest technology and advances.

You should also be aware that a bone density scan from one scanner is not comparable to a bone density scan from another scanner. The scan MUST be done on the same machine to be comparable and to show changes accurately,

Sounds like you have indeed set up a scam.

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Old 05-28-05, 09:02 PM   #11
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Do you feel that it's better to do more weight and fewer reps or the other way around. I see a lot of woman at the gym doing very light weights but doing about 50 reps. Instead I try to go for the highest weight I can while still maintaining good form and do 12 reps, 3 sets each. Then rotate (arms, legs, abs) and go back for another round, so actually end up doing 24 reps, 6 sets each on each machine. I also walk 45 minutes, 5 days a week (not counting my regular activity walking-around the house, normal stuff) and ofcourse bicycle several times a week.
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Old 05-29-05, 06:13 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by DnvrFox
You need to get current on your knowledge and stop practicing medicine without that knowledge.
<snip>


Sounds like you have indeed set up a scam.
I am practicing nothing. I was sent in on a contract to do the computer work which is what I do. The scanner sends signal to a processing unit (my domain) for analysis. I did the hook up, calibration, etc. I practice nothing medically. As far as 'you can do nothing' that was what I was *told* by the doctor whose office it was. I have no idea what the value was of these scans or the worth of the medicines which are supposed to help this.
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Old 05-29-05, 06:17 AM   #13
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Do you feel that it's better to do more weight and fewer reps or the other way around. I see a lot of woman at the gym doing very light weights but doing about 50 reps. Instead I try to go for the highest weight I can while still maintaining good form and do 12 reps, 3 sets each. Then rotate (arms, legs, abs) and go back for another round, so actually end up doing 24 reps, 6 sets each on each machine. I also walk 45 minutes, 5 days a week (not counting my regular activity walking-around the house, normal stuff) and ofcourse bicycle several times a week.
It depends on your goal. For example, if you seek hypertrophy, generally you'd like to do 5 reps for 5 sets of any exercise. Generally speaking (VERY generally) folks err by not exerting themselves enough or doing the moves improperly or failing to do whole body exercises. For example, deads, squats and benches will work almost the entire body. Do these three exercises so you are TIRED afterwards and you get a good workout. Instead, like you say, many in gyms (not just fems) wave around light weights working only a small muscle group which gives them no more workout than peeling an apple then wonder why they get little results.
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Old 05-29-05, 07:08 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by slide
I am practicing nothing. I was sent in on a contract to do the computer work which is what I do. The scanner sends signal to a processing unit (my domain) for analysis. I did the hook up, calibration, etc. I practice nothing medically. As far as 'you can do nothing' that was what I was *told* by the doctor whose office it was. I have no idea what the value was of these scans or the worth of the medicines which are supposed to help this.
You seemed to have enough medical knowledge to state abour bone scans

"Personally, I think the entire bone density scan is a scam."

On what medical basis and training do you come to the above conclusion?
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Old 05-29-05, 07:16 AM   #15
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You seemed to have enough medical knowledge to state abour bone scans

"Personally, I think the entire bone density scan is a scam."

On what medical basis and training do you come to the above conclusion?
Because the fellow whose office I set up for those scans said that there is nothing one can do to improve the results. That is, if you have bad density, the best you can hope for is arresting deterioration. You can't make it better. Since the things you should do to arrest the deterioration are the things you should do anyway, the scan adds no meaningful information. So your bone scan numbers are meaningless and useless. That's why I declined my free one. The results won't alter my behavior or give me useful info. That, to me, is a scam.
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Old 05-29-05, 07:29 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by slide
Because the fellow whose office I set up for those scans said that there is nothing one can do to improve the results. That is, if you have bad density, the best you can hope for is arresting deterioration. You can't make it better. Since the things you should do to arrest the deterioration are the things you should do anyway, the scan adds no meaningful information. So your bone scan numbers are meaningless and useless. That's why I declined my free one. The results won't alter my behavior or give me useful info. That, to me, is a scam.
Yes, he sounds like a scammer to me, if he doesn't know the basic physiology of bone building, and appropriate treatments.

I refer again to:

Quote:
Drugs such as Fosamax are very effective in assisting increases in bone density. My son has gone from osteoporosis to osteopenia in the last few years as a result of Fosamax and proper calcium supplements, etc. The drug Forteo is new (have you heard about it?) and quite effective in reversing osteoporosis.
Why are you involved in scamming people?
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Old 05-29-05, 05:49 PM   #17
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Do you feel that it's better to do more weight and fewer reps or the other way around. I see a lot of woman at the gym doing very light weights but doing about 50 reps. Instead I try to go for the highest weight I can while still maintaining good form and do 12 reps, 3 sets each. Then rotate (arms, legs, abs) and go back for another round, so actually end up doing 24 reps, 6 sets each on each machine. I also walk 45 minutes, 5 days a week (not counting my regular activity walking-around the house, normal stuff) and ofcourse bicycle several times a week.

50 reps is just too much. If you can easily do 50 reps, your weights are TOO LOW. Tell that to the women at the gym.

When fitness professionals recommend high reps with low weights, they're using talking about 15- 16 reps (about). By the time you've gotten through about 80% of your set, you should start feeling some fatigue in the muscle. That's my rule of thumb.

Walking helps. There is some impact. Resistance training also does a great deal also- the more you can lift, the more muscle you'll build, and the more bone strengthening you'll be able to do.

Sounds like you're doing well, Lite.

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Old 05-30-05, 07:14 AM   #18
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Since you work in Radiology, is a CT scan very good for finding out what's wrong with a knee? I've had some problems with my right knee. The Doc thought I'd pulled a muscle, but over a week ago it wouldn't support me. I have a pacemaker, so they can't do an MRI. I heard the Radiologist wanted to do a different type of test, but the Doc turned them down.
I think our bones do break a bit easier as we get older, and take longer to mend, so we need to do everything we can to keep our bone structure strong.
You may want to consider an arthrogram. I don't think a CT scan would be the test of choice. Arthrogram was the best test before MRI came along. We still do them as an alternative to MRI. MRI is a great test....to bad you can't have that done. Ask your doc about an arthrogram.
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