gif4445

So I began the Testosterone injections a couple months ago or so. Shared my concerns on 50+ before I started, but took the plunge. T has went from 200 to 500+. (have had 2-3 injections since last blood test). Energy level, which was the main reason I went with it, is actually lower. Winter may have more to do with that one. We will see. Before last injection (2 week intervals), they took my BP. At 140/75,it was the highest I have ever had. Was advised to give blood regularly, but did not until a couple days ago. Hemoglobin was over 18. Normally a bit over 15. Decided to give double reds, as they were almost begging and thought it would help me out. Of course now I can't donate till June, so what to do if/when the RBC count builds again? And mood swings are probably the worst side effect. Wondering if the Estrogen reducer part of the injection that the Dr. said was in there, is actually in there. Moods range from singing Barbara Streisand tunes, to wanting to injure someone. All things I will discuss with Doc during the next visit. On a side note, although I feel tired a lot of the time, when I get out on the bike, I get over that and actually feel surprisingly strong. My fitness level is probably at it's worst since leg surgery a couple years ago, but went riding with a friend last week and did 45 miles with relative ease. Just thought I would share this, in case others are in the same boat, contemplating such or have some insight . I will update as I go along.

OldsCOOL

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kbarj

Thank you for posting this. I have wondered about this sort of therapy and appreciate the insights you are sharing.

OldsCOOL

I'm interested in knowing the improvement of strength and endurance over the course of a season. Do you time or track your rides with Strava or similar? As for the mood swings, would more vigorous rides or workouts curtail some of the volatility?

JohnDThompson 

Wow. "18" is pretty high, and there are risks associated with overly high hemoglobin. Talk to your doctor. You may decide to forgo your next injection, and/or be a candidate for "therapeutic phlebotomy." In any case, it's something you should discuss with your doctor.

BlazingPedals

Oh no, you're on Lance's schedule of T and EPO! (ducking...)

The energy issue is probably seasonal. I was on the gel for a while when my T was at 150, but now it's at 300 and the doc says that's low-end of normal for my age.

gif4445

I use mapmyride and a garmin, so I will have history to compare. I'm not a racer, but do some endurance stuff (200-400k rides), so that data will be useful. I will share all of that as we go on here. And I think you are probably right on stepping up the workouts. I physically need to do that. And probably mentally also.

Carbonfiberboy 

I don't know from hemoglobin levels, but my hematocrit was steady at 45 back when I donated plasma every month. High hematocrit is a nice performance booster right there.

OldTryGuy

I finally got my T shot yesterday 2 weeks late so 4 weeks since last one. Rbc, Hbc and Hct are all below low range so don't have those concerns and can't give blood anyway due to prostate cancer. I chuckle a little when guys talk about having low T being 200 and think about good old Bugs Bunny cartoon with the following scene since before injections my T < 12. At least Lance had one helping out . Only thing producing for me was adrenals.


Even with injections I had a 145 level a few months back. Still managed 102 miles today after last Saturday's 307 during the 24 hours of Bike Sebring. Recovery is da-pits without the shots and even having them has not brought back the strength, stamina or endurance of pre-orchiectomy levels.

Good luck with your hopeful improvement and keep up with the blood testing schedule.

Bob S

my long term health condition was finally diagnosed when my T was tested with a reading of 10, not sure that is any different than a reading of 0. I have been on gels, Axiron and now Androgel since mid 2011. My endocrinologist wants my T level at about 400, age 70. It took me two years to get to the point where I think I am normal again. We tried a higher dose, T = 500 was dangerous, and a lower dose = no energy and naps every day.

gif4445

Thanks and I'm looking into it. The next Dr. visit will be more than the normal "fly-by".

gif4445

And I'm wondering if it would help in high altitude (10,000 ft ASL and higher) situations? I'm planning to do the triple by-pass again this year and hopefully one or two others in the high country.

gif4445

Thanks for your input and I'm amazed you are doing what you do. I struggled with beginning my injections, partially due to NOT having close to zero T. After more than a year after the initial blood test and nrg steadily decreasing, I decided to just do it and find out. I'm doing the finding out now.

gif4445

I'm 59 and my Dr. wants me over 800. I question that. Wish there was a home T test. And to begin self injecting, to hopefully take the wild swings out of the equation and get the T level dialed up/down to a sustainable level with a minimum of side effects.

OldTryGuy

Self injection is possible if you feel comfortable doing so. 800 should have you high jumping for World Records

gif4445

I would think 500 would be good, especially if I'm experiencing a bunch of side effects going above that. No excuse for me not to do self injections. I raised livestock for 25 years and probably gave 20,000 shots/year +/-. Seems like ironic payback.

Carbonfiberboy 

It might. High hematocrit is why pros used to try to sleep high. Daily Peloton - Pro Cycling News
They'll test your hematocrit before every donation, so you can see if a series of them made a difference. Note that it takes a few weeks before increased EPO will result in mature RBCs. The negative effects of plasma donation only last a couple of days.

Bob S

When I started on T my endocrinologist discussed the options with me and did not recommend injections because they cause spikes and valleys in T levels, things may have changed as that was nearly 6 years ago. Using topical gels I have not noticed any peaks or valleys in my energy levels.

ColonelSanders

I am due to see an Endocrinologist in a month's time and I will have to ask him why the USA and Australia have different ways of recording testosterone levels.

I don't know if it is as simple as dividing the figure the USA uses by 10 or not, but in Australia on our blood tests, the normal testosterone range is between 11 and 40 nmol/L, yet clearly you guys have a different measurement as you are talking about figures like 500.

gif4445

I assume the gel is applied daily? Or at least more often than an injection every 2 weeks, such as I do. It would make sense that more frequent applications/injections at a lower dose would make more sense here. I didn't try the creams and gels. Did not want the possibility, however low it may be, of transferring it to my grandkids and others.

gif4445

Here is another area where I need to educate myself. What is the best and most feasible avenue of donation for my situation? Is it the double RBC donation? Plasma? Whole blood? I emailed the Red Cross with my plight. It will be interesting to see how they respond. I've received numerous phone calls over the years begging for blood when they were in short supply, and usually have responded with a donation. Wondering if it works both ways. We just got a new blood center in town, for plasma, platelet etc. collection. Popular with the college crowd as a source of income. Maybe that's a better alternative. More to learn.

gif4445

Maybe this will help

https://www.nebido.com/tools/index.php/en/default/index/conversion-tool[/URL]

We measure in ng/dl. My old level in nmol/L was 6.9. At last test 2-3 injections ago, it was around 19.

ColonelSanders

Thanks for that, what a great link.

I think my last blood test showed 5.4 in nmol/L and 3.4 prior to that, so that's pretty low and translates to 156 & 98 ng/dl.

CrankyOne

This discussion is why I prefer to keep a big distance between me and drugs of any sort (and prefer as natural as possible food). I may change my mind when I hit 70 but hope not.

gif4445

Ideally, I'm with you. My wife would tell you that I'm pretty stubborn when it comes to medications. I especially hate the whole taking-meds-to-counteract-other-meds crap. In the words of an old TV commercial, "It's not nice to fool Mother Nature". But reality got in the way and I made a choice to try and improve my quality of life before worse things happened. Time will tell if I have made the right choice.