Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 80
  1. #51
    zac
    zac is offline
    Just ride zac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lowell, MA
    My Bikes
    I just ride them, they own me.
    Posts
    874
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I do, I do! (Campy Record with downtube shifters.)

    But I ride STI shifters on my new bike too.

    Honestly, I don't know why I waited so long. I can shift pretty effortlessly with the friction shifters, and sometimes the STIs seem to have a mind of their own. BUT, being able to shift while hammering away out of the saddle going uphill, at least for me, makes it all worth while.

    Zac

  2. #52
    My bikes became Vintage OLDYELLR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,096
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I haven't read all of this thread, but if someone hasn't said it before, index shifters are like putting frets on a fiddle.

  3. #53
    Riding a bitsa
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM, USA
    Posts
    519
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    what is a fret on a fiddle and what does it do?

  4. #54
    My bikes became Vintage OLDYELLR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,096
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Are you serious or is it like a musician asking what a bottom bracket is?

  5. #55
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I was SOOOOOO glad to give up the friction shifters for my first bike with STI shifters. I hated having to let go of the handlebars and trying to shift while going uphill (and not lose speed, because the blasted thing would find the gear). Plus, you who like them must have much smoother shifters than I had. Buttery smooth NEVER described the shifting on that bike. What I remember if having to have my hand on the shifter for a relatively long period of time to try to get it into the correct gear. Ugh. Those of you who like it, all the power to you. I'll stick with my Shimano Ultegra.

  6. #56
    My bikes became Vintage OLDYELLR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,096
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    When I got my first derailleur bike about 50 years ago, I was puzzled why the shifters weren't made to index just like the Sturmley-Archer trigger shifters I was used to. I learned that the reason was unreliability because of cable stretch and the obvious misalignment that happens as the front and rear chain line changes. Back in the eighties Suntour came out with shifters that mounted on top of the downtube which compensated for the front change by adjusting the rear cable and vice versa. I don't have a lot of experience with index shifters, except fine tuning the ones on my son's bike. It's certainly more finicky than adjusting the cables on friction shifters. I still don't know if index shifters incorporate a means of compensating for the change in chain line. It seems to me that index shifting was introduced to dumb down shifting so as to accomodate the masses flocking to the SUVs of cycling, mountain bikes.

  7. #57
    Curmudgeon Wil Davis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Nausea, New Hamster
    My Bikes
    (see http://wildavis.smugmug.com/Bikes) Bianchi Veloce (2005), Nishiki Cascade (1992), Schwinn Super Sport (1983)
    Posts
    1,572
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have downtube friction shifters on my old (1984) Schwinn Super Sport, very easy to adjust, nothing to go wrong - and with good maintentance, very reliable. My first bike with index-shifting was a Nishiki Cascade MTB - very easy to shift - makes riding a breeze (until something goes wrong with the innards of the shift-levers…). It's a bit like the stick-shift/auto argument with cars - it often provides a useful excuse for not letting others ride your bike if they're only used to index-shifting…

    - Wil

  8. #58
    zac
    zac is offline
    Just ride zac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lowell, MA
    My Bikes
    I just ride them, they own me.
    Posts
    874
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by OLDYELLR
    Are you serious or is it like a musician asking what a bottom bracket is?
    Exactly!

    While I am a newer "musician" (and used here, the term "musician" is used in the broadest possible sense) I did catch your analogy.

  9. #59
    My bikes became Vintage OLDYELLR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,096
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wil Davis
    It's a bit like the stick-shift/auto argument with cars
    - Wil
    Well, yes and no. While all racers now have index shifters on the brakes, in car racing an automatic would be unthinkable (except for drags and those F1 gearboxes).

  10. #60
    Berry Pie..the Holy Grail GrannyGear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Weaving thru the cowpud outside Modesto CA
    Posts
    1,123
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Lesliegee--- I'm the one guilty of "buttery smooth"...which friction shifters (especially those with an internal ratchet ("retrofriction") can be. But, when those fine motor skills are gone or that farmer's dog is vectoring on your leg, they can be a bit rougher.
    Under a lot of chain tension while climbing they can go from smooth to rough for sure.

    Chain rub management, I.M.O., is much easier manually than with with a brifter--especially Shimano. In the end, this is merely a matter of taste and style; BTW, I still
    wear saddle shoes but they're hard to find.

  11. #61
    Riding a bitsa
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM, USA
    Posts
    519
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by zac
    Exactly!

    While I am a newer "musician" (and used here, the term "musician" is used in the broadest possible sense) I did catch your analogy.
    I'm still mystified, but will let it drop.

  12. #62
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    SoCal
    My Bikes
    Russian Vodka
    Posts
    8,344
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    bah you guys are ragging too much on the friction shifters. I think they are much better than some of you suspect You have to get used to them and then its like heaven

  13. #63
    cyclist/gearhead/cycli... moxfyre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    DC / Maryland suburbs
    My Bikes
    Homebuilt tourer/commuter, modified-beyond-recognition 1990 Trek 1100, reasonably stock 2002-ish Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo
    Posts
    4,172
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ovoleg
    bah you guys are ragging too much on the friction shifters. I think they are much better than some of you suspect You have to get used to them and then its like heaven
    Yep, I thought they'd be impossible to use and finicky, because I'd only used MTB rapidfire shifters before. Then I tried friction and found it was laughably easy, I found that I could shift just as fast as I needed, and that not having the stops was no problem at all... after about 2 minutes of trying it
    My bikes | Linux and Python stuff | Photo gallery

    Sheldon Brown, I miss you. Thanks for the advice, ideas, humor, and infectious enthusiasm for everything bikes...

  14. #64
    Immoderator KrisPistofferson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    POS Tennessee
    My Bikes
    Gary Fisher Simple City 8, Litespeed Obed
    Posts
    7,636
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I actually find them EASIER to use with more modern cassettes, 8 and 9 speeds, because there is less space between the cogs than on old freewheels. In conjunction with a double up front, it really is the most trouble free shifting I've ever tried, apart from Ultegra-level STI. But it's WAAAAY cheaper.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikeforums
    Your rights end where another poster's feelings begin.

  15. #65
    Powered by Borscht ovoleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    SoCal
    My Bikes
    Russian Vodka
    Posts
    8,344
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    After you know the position of each gear it is very fast and easy. It takes time to find those right spots but in the end its problem free. Its so much easier to adjust

  16. #66
    Immoderator KrisPistofferson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    POS Tennessee
    My Bikes
    Gary Fisher Simple City 8, Litespeed Obed
    Posts
    7,636
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikeforums
    Your rights end where another poster's feelings begin.

  17. #67
    Riding a bitsa
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM, USA
    Posts
    519
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I just moved to indexed shifters from friction. While the positioning wasn't a problem with the downtube shifters, the location was. I found myself mashing hard on an uphill rather than shift down if I were standing. I find I am more likely to select just the right gear ratio now than before. I'm a new comer to the sport, but to me, the location is 100% the benefit from my new shifters compared to my old ones.

  18. #68
    Senior Member sewupnut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Mountains and Plains of Colorado
    My Bikes
    Seven Odonata, Trek 950, 86 Stumpjumper, MASI 3V, Schwinn LeTour
    Posts
    168
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I am vindicated! Almost forgot about my old Stumpjumper with Suntour XT friction
    shifters on the handlebars. That's my rest day(s) bike.

    sun

  19. #69
    My bikes became Vintage OLDYELLR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,096
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by slide
    I'm still mystified, but will let it drop.
    Slide (a name like that and you don't play steel or dobro?) here's the scoop: A fiddle (or a violin to the highbrow snobs) has no frets (metal bars on the neck to determine the exact length of string being played. The player holds down the strings in the correct place on the neck from experience to get the right note. Guitars and most electric basses have frets to give the correct note, requiring less skill and experience. Similarly, SIS shifters supposedly put you in the correct gear without having an educated hand and perceptive feel.

  20. #70
    My bikes became Vintage OLDYELLR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,096
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by slide
    I found myself mashing hard on an uphill rather than shift down if I were standing. I find I am more likely to select just the right gear ratio now than before. I'm a new comer to the sport, but to me, the location is 100% the benefit from my new shifters compared to my old ones.
    I have no experience with the brake lever shifters, but to me the downtube shifter is wher my hand falls the easiest. As for having to downshift on a hill, it's frerever been drilled into us to downshift before you need to. In my case, when the going gets tough and I'm not yet down to my 21 tooth cog, I can't really miss it by just pulling the lever all the way back.

    This reminds me of when I rode a bike with Sturmley-Archer hub gears. If you dropped the bike on the right side you could break the little chain that changed the gears and it would revert to the high gear. The quick fix was to pull the remainder of the chain out to engage the middle gear and stick a finishing nail through it.

  21. #71
    wildjim
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by OLDYELLR
    index shifters are like putting frets on a fiddle.
    That is the perfect analogy. . .

  22. #72
    Riding a bitsa
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM, USA
    Posts
    519
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by OLDYELLR
    Slide (a name like that and you don't play steel or dobro?) here's the scoop: A fiddle (or a violin to the highbrow snobs) has no frets (metal bars on the neck to determine the exact length of string being played. The player holds down the strings in the correct place on the neck from experience to get the right note. Guitars and most electric basses have frets to give the correct note, requiring less skill and experience. Similarly, SIS shifters supposedly put you in the correct gear without having an educated hand and perceptive feel.
    Handle is a holdover from motorcycle riding fora.

    I didn't know that about violins! I also don't know what a dobro is - I'm sure I don't play one. I do play a mean radio, though

    Thanks for the explanation. I don't see why frets are a bad idea on a violin. They would, I think, make one's job playing easier.

  23. #73
    Riding a bitsa
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM, USA
    Posts
    519
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by OLDYELLR
    I have no experience with the brake lever shifters, but to me the downtube shifter is wher my hand falls the easiest. As for having to downshift on a hill, it's frerever been drilled into us to downshift before you need to. In my case, when the going gets tough and I'm not yet down to my 21 tooth cog, I can't really miss it by just pulling the lever all the way back.

    This reminds me of when I rode a bike with Sturmley-Archer hub gears. If you dropped the bike on the right side you could break the little chain that changed the gears and it would revert to the high gear. The quick fix was to pull the remainder of the chain out to engage the middle gear and stick a finishing nail through it.
    I initially had a borrowed bike which had downtube shifters. Then I had to give it back and buy my own. I ended up with shifters which are close to the brake levers. You push down or sideways on two levers to move to larger or smaller sprockets (large lever moves to smaller sprocket).

    I find the location to be much easier to access as all my gear changing is now at my fingertips when I'm in natural positions riding. Also, as my friend pointed out, I can now switch gears while standing on a hill. Like you imply, that's a theoretical advantage as I tend to shift down before the hill. HOwever, I hope to not to in the future as I need to take advantage of my new bike's assets.

    Where I find little improvement is the fact of the indexing. I didn't have problems before finding the right gear if I could get to the lever. Also the move one way for larger the opposite for smaller spockets made logical sense where push lever A for larger, lever B for smaller is taking some learning.

    What I can't see are those bar end shifters. I have never used them. Perhaps if I did, I'd learn to appreciate them.

  24. #74
    Berry Pie..the Holy Grail GrannyGear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Weaving thru the cowpud outside Modesto CA
    Posts
    1,123
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Slide.....I have barends on two bikes and like them. One set is indexed, one not. They are more easily accessible because they are closer to normal hand positions. (I often shift by just curling my pinky around the shifter. They are almost as precise as downtube shifters. They are more accurate and require less fiddling than STI when tuning your front derailleur to prevent chain rub. In indexing mode, they may well be a compromise between STI and downtubes. As for friction/index....you can choose either. Barends are cheap enough on ebay...try a pair...you may well like them as an alternative to dt's. The only hindrance, which may soon grow unnoticable, is the shifter cable shooting out from the drops before it curls back around to enter the cable guides on the downtube.

  25. #75
    Riding a bitsa
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM, USA
    Posts
    519
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'll keep that in mind, GG but I don't plan on changing what I have. I had to buy a bike because my borrowed one had to go back. I had a particular budget which should have met my needs easily. I ended up exceeding that budget by a whopping amount. My spending days are over for a good while.

    Thanks for the info.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •