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  1. #1
    Berry Pie..the Holy Grail GrannyGear's Avatar
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    My "Last Friction Shifter" thread has now morphed into this. Friction shifting my 6spd uniglide with Simplex/Mavic retrofric's is, except for the reach down to the dt, almost as fast & sure as my friend shoving his 10spd brifter. My 7spd fw is also "easy".

    To keep that ease of shifting, and because I ride 126mm rears, am I missing out on all those cogs?? Does having beaucoup choices feel better? He fits his gear to his legs, my legs do more adapting to the gears I have. He also spends one heck of a lot of time click-searching for that best-gear-of-the-moment: riding with him in rolling terrain is a symphony of clicks, chain rattles, and ka-chunks.

    Question: what are people using in back with double or triples up front? Am I the last 6 cogster? How many of you actually have had your 126 rears cold set spread for STI?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by GrannyGear; 07-23-05 at 05:38 PM.

  2. #2
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrannyGear
    Question: what are people using in back with double or triples up front? Am I the last 6 cogster? How many of you actually have had your 126 rears cold set spread for STI?

    Thanks.
    Problem with updating an older bike is cost against buying a newer bike. In updating from 6 speed, it is going to cost you a new wheel, cassette, changers and possibly deraillers. That cost will buy you a more modern second hand bike that has all the gears you will want. It will also give you a better bike, with better components on it. Is it going to be worth it?

    I do occasionally ride an old Road bike and this is a 6 speed one. Gearing is high in comparison to my mountain bike, and the only place I suffer is on the BIG and STEEP hills. Lowest gearing is 42/26 wheras on my mountain bike it is 22/32. Thinking of one big nasty hill now and I can climb it on both bikes. I climb the hill on both bikes in the lowest gear so why can't I ride the mountain bike up that hill in comparative gears to the road bike? OK lighter bike, better set up for road etc. but the reason is not physical, it is mental. Sorry it hurts and my legs are pumping up. Change down and make it easier. I can't do that on the road bike as it starts the hill in the lowest gear so it is sit in and grind away.

    I am not saying that I can do the hill on the road bike easily, and if I had more gears on it- I would use them. It would definitely be easier and more comfortable, but I don't think the expense would be worth it on such an old bike. I looked at (Only looked at so I am not changing over to road riding) a second hand road bike recently. Triple on the front 8 speed rear cassette, good components and when I picked it up, it was light. The price of it was what I would spend in a 3 month period maintaining my bikes-300. If I did buy this bike, then I would also have the old bike to sell, so cutting the cost. As it is, I will stay with that antique Bianchi, and just cut out the steep hills. (Unless I get roped in to do another road ride that takes them in again)

  3. #3
    Let's do a Century jppe's Avatar
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    I'm riding a pretty docile 52-42-30 triple with a 12/27 cassette. I only have one bike so have it set up for the mountain rides I do. If I had two bikes I'd have a compact crank chain ring (double) but have too many college tuitions to think about a second bike for a while.....

    Haven used dt shifters many years ago, I must admit today's shifters are a real pleasure and maybe safer (questionable) to use. With the additional gears (9 or 10 speed) it's really nice to be able to trim your shifting to keep cadence within a nice range plus keep both hands on the hoods-especially in big, fast groups.

  4. #4
    Senior Curmudgeon FarHorizon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrannyGear
    Does having beaucoup choices feel better?...what are people using in back with double or triples up front?...How many of you actually have had your 126 rears cold set spread for STI?
    Thanks.
    OK, GrannyGear, in order:

    1. All them lagniappe gears don't actually do much. There's so much duplication of gearing with 10 in back and 3 in front, that most folks actually have no more gears than you do. People buy 8's, 9's, and 10's primarily because "more" sells. There ARE some exceptions to both of the previous sentences (like if you live in really mountainous terrain).

    2. People use the same stuff in back regardless of whether the front is a double or triple. Again, there are exceptions, but in most cases, the front is chosen by the bike manufacturer or by the personal preference (logical or not) of the buyer.

    3. I've "cold set" steel frames from 126 to 130 before (don't try this with aluminum frames!). The reason was that 130 rear hubs are more readily available than 126's with freewheels. With a rear 130, you can run 7, 8, 9, or 10 speed cassettes, your choice.

    Hope this is what you wanted to know.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Wildwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrannyGear
    Am I the last 6 cogster? Thanks.
    Hardly the last 6 cogster, my 80's tourer came with 5 spd FW and triple f der. I upgraded to 6 spd many years ago. The older friction systems can run smooth and quiet with less maintenance. I have 2 roadies with Campy Ergo and am impressed by the newer technology for several reasons. If your friend's drivetrain "is a symphony of clicks, chain rattles and ka-chunks" then he ought to get it lubed/tuned up or learn how to shift. I enjoy the both the nostalgia of friction and the advantages of Ergo/STI, but love that feel of carbon brifters.

  6. #6
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
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    On a typical 18-speed Tour de France setup of 53-39 / 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21, the gap between ratios averages just over 8 percent, and the highest ratio is 2.6 times the lowest.

    With its 50-42 / 13-15-17-19-21-23-26 gearing, my 14-speed Bianchi offers somewhat tighter gaps (as long as I am willing to "double-shift" at times, which I am) and covers an only slightly smaller ratio range of 2.4. The only objectionable gap in my gear development is between my 90-inch (50/15) and my 104-inch (50/13) gears, where a 96 (50/14) would be most welcome. My flatlands cogset, 13-14-15-17-19-21-23, fills in this gap for times I can do without my granny.

    Even better is the half-step-plus-granny I put on my PKN-10: 48-45-34 / 13-15-17-19-21-23 (the Bianchi's original Regina America cogset). This gives me a ratio range of 2.5 (40 gear-inches to 100), with most gear changes between 6 and 7 percent, a bit larger at the very bottom. For general riding and touring, this is perhaps the most satisfactory gear system I have ever assembled, although I'll admit that one can shift most rear cogsets faster than I can shift my front triple, simply because ANY front mech. is primitive compared to almost any rear.
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
    Capo [dschaw'-poe]: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Wildwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John E
    On a typical 18-speed Tour de France setup of 53-39 / 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21, the gap between ratios averages just over 8 percent, and the highest ratio is 2.6 times the lowest.

    With its 50-42 / 13-15-17-19-21-23-26 gearing, my 14-speed Bianchi offers somewhat tighter gaps (as long as I am willing to "double-shift" at times, which I am) and covers an only slightly smaller ratio range of 2.4. The only objectionable gap in my gear development is between my 90-inch (50/15) and my 104-inch (50/13) gears, where a 96 (50/14) would be most welcome. My flatlands cogset, 13-14-15-17-19-21-23, fills in this gap for times I can do without my granny.

    Even better is the half-step-plus-granny I put on my PKN-10: 48-45-34 / 13-15-17-19-21-23 (the Bianchi's original Regina America cogset). This gives me a ratio range of 2.5 (40 gear-inches to 100), with most gear changes between 6 and 7 percent, a bit larger at the very bottom. For general riding and touring, this is perhaps the most satisfactory gear system I have ever assembled, although I'll admit that one can shift most rear cogsets faster than I can shift my front triple, simply because ANY front mech. is primitive compared to almost any rear.

    How DO you keep it all in order when on the fly.

  8. #8
    Jim Shapiro
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    That's easy -- 1 (on the bike I ride most of the time). I don't have to think about shifting at all, just maintaining a good cadence. It doesn't get any simpler.

  9. #9
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    We might be doing too much thinking here...
    I was happy 25 years ago with a five-speed freewheel, went to six when everybody else did and couldn't find anything wrong with seven. Now I'm running eight because that's what I had around when I built the bikes, and I bought what should be a lifetime supply of extra cassettes from Rivendell a few weeks ago for $15 apiece.
    My two main road bikes (I also have a singlespeed) are an Atlantis and a Rambouillet, geared almost identically: 46-36-26 triple chainrings and an 11-28 on one, 11-26 on the other. I never need a higher gear than the 113 inches that gives me, and while I occasionally wish for a lower one, I don't NEED it.
    I live in the Sierra with 8000-9000-foot passes all around--low gears are more useful to me than high ones. Nine- or (God forbid!) 10-speeds wouldn't give me anything, and might make shifting trickier, adjustment more finicky and things generally less reliable. I friction shift both bikes with barcons (they'd index if I flipped the switch, but I don't) and haven't had to touch the driveline in more than a year.
    The bikes are similar, and I don't really need both, but I got a really good deal on the Rambo (used) after I already had the Atlantis. They're set up with different wheels, tires and handlebars and feel quite different from one another.

  10. #10
    FloridaFlats Bob Gabele's Avatar
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    Living in Florida is a rather unique story. We really don't need triple chain rings down here. I use a 53/42 up front and a straight-block 12/17 or 13/18 on the rear. Five of my bikes are set up this way. My sixth, an Eddy M. Scandium SC is set up with a 53/42 (I swapped out the 39 it came with) and the 10 speed cluster is 12/13/14/15/16/17/19/21/23/25. I really don't use the 19 through 25 though. Maybe in the winter when it starts howling though...

    Having said that, I did some riding in Colorado this summer out around Vail Pass (on a rented road bike) and was REALLY glad to have that 39 instead of the 42 up front. I used the full range of the nine-speed cluster too.

  11. #11
    Rides again HiYoSilver's Avatar
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    Do the setup yourself. See http://www.panix.com/~jbarrm/cycal/cycal.30f.html.

    1. put chainrings # of teeth in first selector.
    2. put cassette cogs # of teeth in second selector
    3. click on submit values and now the fun part begins.

    Click to remove
    a. duplicate GI gears
    b. changes less than 3% from one gear to another
    Click to add, when
    c. gear change differences are greater than 17%.

    After you have added/subtracted to get the shifting patterns you desire, you can see both how many usable gears you have and the shift order.

    NB[ nota bene, note well]-- there can be more than one optimal solution. For example if you have a triple. Solution I will favor lowest chainring. Solution II will favor middle chainring, and Solution III will favor high chainring. You won't have much choice at the low and high end of the scale. But it is interesting how you can get the gear shifts you want and in your favorite chainring.

    Enjoy
    Hi 'o Silver away

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