DnvrFox

Those peel-off patches (oops, almost typed "pee-off" patches) don't work so hot.

You can't put one patch over another.

You need a glue on patch, with the surface of the tire cleaned and dried and sandpapered.

But, hardly anyone uses patches, anyway, except in emergencies when you have used up your spare tube. The LBS will simply throw a tube in and will not patch it - too much chance the patch will leak and you will come back, and they will have to do it all over again. And too much time just patching.

That tube should work.

Inflate slightly, place inside of tire, not on rim, deflate, and go to it. Or, go see your LBS and ask if you can watch.

Have fun!

Just be glad you are not out in the boonies 25 miles without a cell phone!

stapfam

Puncture repairs are an art. First of all find the thorn etc that caused the puncture and push it out from the inside of the tyre. Just pulling it out may leave a bit of the thorn still in the tyre, ready to cause another puncture. Use a piece of cloth and run it round the inside of the tyre just in case you have a second thorn etc. The cloth will stop your hand getting a puncture. On the tube, find the hole. Before making it wet or putting glue on it-- use sandpaper to abrade the tube. This is very important and is not always specified, but makes the patch stick better. Put the glue on the tube and let it go dry. Put some air in the tube to bring it to approximate size, And locate the hole, Then patch it.

Dead easy, so why is it that I always forget the cloth but do find the second thorn. I have a multitude of punctured tubes in the garage awaiting the necessary repairs, because I always fit a spare tube instead of repairing it out on the ride. And on top of that, I can't find the puncture repair outfit that I bought last week, and the one from last month, and the extra patches I bought years ago to be able to sort out my tubes.

Punctures are common off road, and I reckon to be back on the road within two minutes of the tyre going down- But this is a group effort by my riding partners, but The other point to remember is that the Pump must be good enough, be big enough to make it easy and must work when you want it to, instead of leaking air out of the seals-- which is all my friends pumps seem to do.

Digital Gee

First of all, I'd like to thank everyone for your help and advice. I finally succeeded and didn't have to go to the LBS.

That said, I also re-confirmed my mechanical aptitude, although I now fear I've slipped BELOW the banana slug. To whit:

Taking Denver Fox's suggestions, I got the tube inside the tire, deflated it, and got everything mounted on the wheel. Ta da, right? Wrong. I suddenly noticed the black print on the black tire, telling me which direction the tread had to go. I had it backwards, of course (thanks, Murphy!).

So I removed the tire, deflated the tube, took everything off, put everything back on, remounted the wheel on the bike, and I was done, right? Nope, thanks again to Mr. Murphy, I had mounted the wheel backwards. I had the tire on in such a way that the computer wouldn't have worked and the quick release was on the wrong side. I'm not even sure I've explained it properly!

So, I switched all that around, and now I think (crossing my fingers) that all is finally well. I sincerely believe a banana slug would have done it better and faster! I also think this adventure belongs on the Humbling Thread now.

But the bottom line? The flat's fixed (i hope!) and I can get back on the road. Thanks everyone!

DnvrFox

We have all done exactly the processes you mentioned - tire on rim backwards, wheel on bike backwards with the QR on the wrong side, etc., etc. Someday you will have the joy of getting a pinch flat or of having the rim tape go bad and the tube punctured by the back of the spoke.

Just today, I picked my bike up (had a spoke replaced after it breaking during a ride), put the bike in the van, and was driving down the street, when I heard that famous "Pisshh" sound from the back of the car.

Turned around, took the bike back in the shop. It looked like a spoke puncture, but the rim tape was in excellent condition??? Can't figure it out.

So, they replaced the tube gratis, filled it and I just finished s hort ride with my wife.

Incidentally, my LBS guy said that the newer 700 tubes with the modified slime do seem to hold the air at 120 psi when punctures by a thorn. Didn't know that. Learned something!

Digital Gee

I have one more question: how much harder is it to work on the back tire than the front? I shudder to even consider that!

DnvrFox

Once a month on Saturday morning, my LBS has a one hour class on fixing flats, checking brakes, removing wheels (including the back wheel), remounting that back wheel and other simple and basic repair and maintenance techniques. It is open to anyone.

Check around. This is not uncommon.

And, yes, you can easily (well, perhaps not so easily, but it can be done) remove the rear wheel and remount it.

I can even tell you how to get your chain back on - if it has fallen off the small chain ring into the frame - without even touching the chain. I see alot of folks with black greasy fingers attempting to do this manually. Nope, you don't even need to touch it!

jppe

Don't despair on the patches. I quit using patches as I've just not found them not to be that reliable-but I do take them on rides and only use when them if I run out of tubes. Basically I hope they can get me back to my car or to the house.

Anyone remember the patches we used on tubes as kids? Used rubber cement and those things worked!! That was pre-tire tools and a screwdriver would do....That also reminds me of service stations using a solvent/glue on tube repairs that they lit a match to. Always fascinated me as a kid.

Fortunately tires are a non-issue for me anymore. Now if I can just learn how to tune my derailluers....

slide

They should be the same. What do you anticipate would be different in tires f / r?

Digital Gee

I'm sure the tires are the same. It's getting them on and off the bike (the wheels, actually) that would appear to be different. In the front there's no chain to worry about. That's what I mean.

edp773

Congrats on completing your first tire repair lesson. It gets easier with time. The mistakes are part of the learning process, they make you remember not to do that next time.
Removing the rear wheel may look inticing, but it is still simple. The cassette needs to clear the chain on the way out. I tilt the wheel slightly when removing and installing. The wheel goes back in the same way it came out. Just make sure the chain is on the cassette and the axle is seated.

slide

I'll add that you only need feel your way. Approach the removal with a cool mind. You'll find it easy.

What I suggest is that you do an R&R on the rear wheel now. That way when you need to on the road to fix a flat, you'll already know it's something you can do which will give you confidence that all will be ok. So do a practice run to gain the assurance you have the ability when you need it.

Longhorn

If I recall from the lesson on changing a tire that I got, be sure to change gears so that the chain is in the gear furthest from the wheel to give you more room. The only hard part for me was removing the brakes -- it was difficult due to the placement of the fenders. Unfortunately, I didn't get as much hands-on experience as I wanted because every time I had a question or the least bit difficulty, some guy in the class would take over. If only I could count on them being there when I have a flat on the side of the road!

slide

Can' t you release the brakes (spread the pads) so you can remove the wheel w/o removal of the entire brake mechanism? All the bikes I've seen have such releases.

Longhorn

It has a release but it was really tight and hard to get at because of the fenders.

Today I had Armadillos put on my electric bike. To change the rear tire, I'll have to remove the motor (three bolts) and the motor's chain, in addition to the regular bike stuff. Hope those tires live up to their flat-free reputation!

slide

Electric bike? You're swimming in waters strange to me. I think some guy I see regularly is on a bike with a small engine (moped?) but I've never seen an electric bike. I'd have guessed that the mass of the battery pack would make it hard to pedal uphill, etc. when you wanted to get off the motor.

Longhorn

It's heavy but has seven speeds so I can take many hills without the motor. The hills on which I use the motor are the same hills that pushed my heart rate too high in the lowest gear on my Trek (28-32!) I'm using it as a training machine -- rather than build up my strength and stamina in a spin class or on my elliptical, I train while I'm riding to and from work. Eventually, I hope to be able to commute on my Trek in a reasonable amount of time.

old99

Enquiring minds want to know: How do you get the chain back on the ring without touching it?

Digital Gee

I took this advice. I had to run (well, drive) to the LBS for some tubes (on sale, 3x$10), and had them show me how to take off the back tire. Came home, did it for practice. Surprisingly easy, once you know what you're doing. I now feel pretty confident about taking off tires and changing flats. Thanks again everyone!

Also, talked to the LBS about putting slicker tires on my 3900, and they said I could, but first try inflating to 65 or so and seeing how that feels. They think the stock tire on the 3900 is a fairly decent road tire as well (at that price point). They surprised me by NOT going for the easy sale. I like that.

DnvrFox

AH ha, someone finally asked - but I did get one PM asking. Here is what I told them:

Simple, assuming that the chain is not jammed tightly between the small chain ring and the frame - and it almost never is.

1. Move your front derailleur so that it would shift to the big chain ring - in other words, as far to the outside as possible.

2. With one hand, lift up the back of the bike.

3. With the other hand, turn the cranks in the normal going forward direction.

After a few turns, the small ring will "pick up" the chain, and it will eventually follow along to the big chain ring if you want, but you probably want to stop after it encircles the small chain ring.

Get on your bike, adjust the shifter for the front derailleur to the chain ring where the chain is, and pedal away.

I have used this technique on at least five different bikes several times and it has never failed.

(If the rear D is all the way to the wheel, it may make it easier if you move it to the outside, also - you may get a better angle)

slide

I still suggest a run through on your own R&R'ing the tire -either front or rear. These guys who do it have it down and they likely used better 'spoons' than the rather dull plastic ones you probably have.

I've done as much research as I can (so far) on tire rolling resistance, wheel mass, etc. I believe that tread and press are the greatest determinants of resistance. For example, take identical tires of 20 and 28 mm at the same pressure, there will be little difference in rolling resistance. That's my take, but understand I'm a newbie who looks into things - I'm hardly an expert!

OTOH, are you in a race now? What is the downside if you do have more resistance to your ride? You'll only end up going slower for a particular effort which is bad in a century ride or a race, but for conditioning or fun? I think it's not much of a difference. That said, I run slick tires 20 front and 23 rear at high pressure. I preach, but don't practice

slide

Gee, I agree with your approach. I enjoy my riding outside, but can't much enjoy those static bikes at the gym. I sometimes take a spin class, but to me I'd so much rather be riding out there than being in a class cheek and jowl by other sweaty folks puffing away.

I didn't know you CAN push your heart rate too fast. I figured if it can get going that fast, it's ok for it to do so.

Digital Gee

No, I'm not in any race. I'm going to sign up for a half century in October as part of that "ride your age" challenge, and I thought perhaps slicks would give me a couple more miles per hour, thus reducing how long the ride was. However, I suppose that's not very much. I'm not a speed freak but it is fun to hit 20 MPH, but on this bike that's pretty unusual for me. 17 mph is becoming fairly standard fare.

And I do have fun! And I am getting conditioned!

slide

Oh, based on my experience, I then suggest you do get those high pressure slicks for your age ride (we used to age run when I was marathoning). I believe that serious riders use one set of wheels/tires for practice (clunky stuff that endures) and another set for serious riding.

What kind of bike are you riding? -paul

Longhorn

I don't know that it's unhealthy but I do know that it felt like torture and there were times that I was afraid I was going to keel over. I could barely breathe, my face was beet red and I had to wait several minutes before I could drink water without choking since I was also gasping for breath. Knowing how bad it felt made me less and less enthusiastic to ride, especailly in this heat. I was beginning to make excuses not to ride and I was afraid the longer between rides, the sooner I'd drop it all together. Now when I think about going for a ride, I remind myself that if I get really tired or worn out, I can use the motor. Once I'm out there, I never use it nearly as much as I could -- it's a matter of pride -- but at least it gets me out the door and just that little bit of "flattening" of the hills makes a big difference.

I have to laugh whenever anyone on these boards says, "Go find a hill and do intervals" or even funnier, "Find some flats and do interval training." I have hills everywhere I go -- not necessarily huge but numerous -- and I can't even think of a place near my house that would qualify as "flats." Before I got the electric bike, I felt like I was training to swim across the English Channel but the only place I could train was -- the English Channel!

slide

They could have made you laugh even more by saying, "Go out and do fartlek" which seems to raise a few eyebrows at first blush.

I have no idea if what you describe is really a problem, but I sure can see it being unpleasent. Maybe it's a thing common to new folks coming in because a few times I have had unusually high heart rates (I thought) for the percieved effort. I figured for some reason my heart decided to go nuts and there was nothing I could do so I pedaled on. It subsided, but I never got to where I couldn't drink nor did I turn red.

Do you use a HR monitor? That seems to be standard equipment here for serious folks or those who like to take things a bit more formally. I don't have one. Instead, like running, I use percieved effort. I mean, what am I training for - to finish #301 instead of #304 in a field of 310? Why take myself seriously?