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  1. #1
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    Many of us start off with a lower quality bike and we have 2 choices. Wait until we can afford a better bike or upgrade the initial purchase until it gives us a respectable ride. I do not have the finances to buy a top grade bike, so took the cheaper way out of buying a reasonable bike and gradually upgrading it to give me a bike that suits my body, suits my riding style, and gives me a bike that works.

    Forget about my Tandem as that is the reason I have a money shortage, and not many of us will be prepared to spend the amount I did on that thing to purchase, then more money to upgrade and even more money to keep it running. On my solo however, 5 years ago I bought a Bianchi Hardtail mountain bike with an excellent frame, but bits attached to it that I knew were going to need upgrading very soon. All I have left now of the original bike is the frame, front mech and bar stem. Everything else has been replaced with higher grade parts as the originals failed.

    Drivetrain has been upgraded to XT except for the original cheap nasty Acera front mech that still works and does its job perfectly. Brakes are still V Brakes but LX quality as These work as I want them to. Bars were changed to riser bars, and the saddle, after a few comfort problems has been put back to my long favourite of a Flite Titanium but the new version with a little gel and the cutaway. Wheels however did surprise me in that the Original Bianchi wheels were Good. Admittedly they are now the 3rd spare pair of wheels, but are still servicable.

    Barring the Rockefellars out there- What are the upgrades that you would recommend to newbies to get their bike working to its maximum, before they decide to sell the wife to get their ultimate bike?

    (Edit) Sorry about the sexist bit of selling the wife, but What would you part with to get your ultimate bike.
    Last edited by stapfam; 11-27-05 at 02:18 PM.
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  2. #2
    Elite Fred mollusk's Avatar
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    Here are my thoughts on rank ordering the parts of the bike in terms of where I would put my hard earned $'s, or whatever local currency you are using.

    My first real road bike was a mid-level Bianchi and over the first couple of years I slowly upgraded components until the bike was stolen. That was a mistake. The most important pieces of a bike are the frame followed by the fork. If the frame and fork are terrible/nondescript no amouint of upgrading will help much.

    The next bike I bought was a 1986 Cannondale R400 with a number of upgrades at the time of purchase. The biggest upgrade was the wheelset to a handmade pair of Mavic GP4 rims on Campy Record hubs. I also upgraded the saddle to a Brooks Team Pro and the pedals to Suntour Superbe Pros. I pretty much left the rest of the stock bike alone, but if I was going to rank order places where I would upgrade next would be shifter levers, followed by brake levers, and bars in that order. Next in line are the brake calipers. Now I'd put rear derailleur followed by the front derailleur. Next I'd put crank set and bottom bracket followed by stem and headset. Last we have the seatpost. Tires, tubes, chain, cables, cable housings, brake pads, and cassette/freewheel are regular service items and I don't put them on this list.

    Your particular needs may dictate a very different rank order.
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  3. #3
    Let's do a Century jppe's Avatar
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    For road bikes here are my thoughts no the bigger ticket items:

    Saddle!! (Enough said)
    Carbon Front Fork (Takes the bumps out of the road)
    Wheels (Wow-lighter weight can make a HUGE difference on acceleration and climbing-but will probably be $500+ to get something even decent)
    Rear derailleur (Think about it-you use this part more than any other-if you've never had really smooth shifting you don't know what you're missing)
    Shifters (same thoughts as the RD)
    Carbon Handlebars (Way down my list simply because of cost but they can really add to riding enjoyment)

  4. #4
    Senior Curmudgeon
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    Interesting priorities youse guys have!

    I'd agree that a good frame and fork are starting blocks. Beyond that, it's what is irksome about the stock equipment.

    I'm partial to smooth shifts, so for me, the rear derailleur and shifters are a good place to invest. The front derailleur, conversely, seems to be just fine from the cheapest to the most expensive - no sense spending there. If the original rig didn't come with teflon-lined shift and brake cables, that's a "do it" for me too.

    Obviously, a seat that I like is always worth the $$$.

    Things that don't seem to improve very much with "upgrading" include:

    brakes (except for housings and pads)
    headsets
    bottom brackets
    wheels (since I'm a Clydesdale, the cheaper, more-sturdy ones are usually better)

    Things that don't improve at all with "upgrading" include:

    front derailleurs
    bars (unless you don't fit the originals)
    stems (ditto)
    seat posts (ditto)
    cranks (ditto)
    pedals (I keep used spares of the type I like in case I inherit clipless crud)

    In general, my motto is "if it aint broke, don't fix it." I'm willing to use parts until I either get tired of them, they break, or I want to turn them into cash for my next project.

  5. #5
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    I've got to tell you. I ended up getting a lot of good bikes over the years mostly because I had the money and they were available cheap.

    Most of my road stuff is Chorus and I don't much care for Record because of the price differential for essentially nothing more than polish.

    However, there is really no reason to buy anything better than Shimano LX mountain stuff or 105 road stuff. Likewise there's no real reason to buy any higher than Centaur which works and lasts as long as Chorus. Most of my rear derailleurs now are Chorus because I don't want to pay for carbon components on a 10 speed derailleur when I can get a perfectly acceptable polish aluminum 9-speed.

    Campy is very likely to "improve" their way out of the marketplace.

    To my way of thinking we haven't improved significantly from 8-speed stuff since 9-speed wears out chains and cassettes and chain rings significantly faster than 8-speed.

    Since I stopped racing (even against the club riders on the training rides) I don't worry about having wide ratios and a 13-27 or 28 cassette and a compact crank are really welcome and in fact have significantly improved my riding both in pleasure and in better times.

    My Basso, Eddy Merckx EX and Look KG-241 all have "the ride" which is to say, they feel perfect. The Look is the bottom of the line and I didn't spend a great deal buying it used. The Eddy I snapped up at a fire sale as the guy who had it wanted a guitar I happened to have. The Basso was advertised as "Old model Basso Loto". I assumed that it was something from the 80's and when I received the frame sight unseen it turned out to be circa '95 and built from ELOS.

    And as for "the ride" - I had an old Peugeot PX-10 on which I replaced the fork in order to use English headset and normal reach brakes that had "the ride". I probably had almost 50 quid in that thing and it is still used by my middle daughter who also rode it to 14th place nationally one year.

    My point is that it doesn't necessarily cost a lot of money to get a really nice bike. And the equipment on the bikes doesn't need to be the most expensive stuff. You can often buy an almost new Centaur group, cheap, from someone who decided to upgrade. Now I happen to be mechanically inclined and many aren't. But you can still find a good bike cheaply from someone who has more money than sense if you know what I mean.

  6. #6
    Senior Member billallbritten's Avatar
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    I'm not much into upgrading except for comfort or safety - my two items - saddle and oddly enough, seatpost. The stock seatpost on the 7500FX has a saddle rail clamp mechanism that has a tilt adjustment that uses discrete "notches" for locking - turned out to be a tad to high in front, or a tad too low in front in adjacent notches. Also a bit tricky to adjust, keep fore/aft position right, and tighten.

    Upgraded to a seatpost with a continuous friction tilt adjustment (Bontrager) with a adjustment for tilt and fore/aft position from the side, not the bottom. Tilt is just right every time and can be adjusted without removing small under saddle bag that I use for a tube and CO2 kit.

  7. #7
    Senior Member RockyMtnMerlin's Avatar
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    ONE of the wonderful things about having ridden bikes (as an adult) since the late 70's is experienceing the vast improvements in the components. Mid (and in some cases even lower) level stuff is now as good as or better than top of the line used to be. The new stuff lasts longer, functions better, is safer and lighter than days gone by. If I had a reasonably nice bike and had some money to upgrade its performance, I would opt for a good set of lightweight wheels. They improve ride quality and efficiency. Taken care of, they will last a LONG time. Just my .02's worth.

    By the way I ride a titanium Merlin Extralight, Campy Record equiped bike with Topolino clincher wheels.

    p.s. if I had all of cyclintom's bicycles I couldn't even decide which one to ride each day! Wow
    Last edited by RockyMtnMerlin; 11-28-05 at 10:22 AM.

  8. #8
    Jim Shapiro
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    I have six (or maybe it's seven, can't remember) bicycles and, despite the fact that I ride almost every day, summer and winter, the only upgrades I have made are a (used) Brooks seat on one and wheels and (used) Shimano 105 brakes for the fixie. My most recent acquisition is a lovely hand-made Miyata road bike with a lugged frame and DuraAce derailleurs that I picked up for under $40. New tires and brake pads set me back another $16. It took some elbow grease to get this bike up to snuff, but now I have a terrific road bike that is my ride of choice. In short, if you are at least a little mechanically inclined (and I'm probably middling in this area), there is no reason to spend a lot of money on a bicycle. Bikes have always been cheap forms of transportation, recreation, and exercise. Stay away from the cheap department store bikes and it's hard to go wrong.

    Jim

  9. #9
    I need more cowbell. Digital Gee's Avatar
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    This thread has me wondering...

    Does it make any sense to upgrade my Trek 3900 MTB (I've already installed slicks, but that's it) rather than migrate to a road bike? (Or until I migrate to a road bike?)

    It's being a pretty good bike so far, for what it is -- your basic, entry level MTB, with 1100 miles on it.
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  10. #10
    Senior Curmudgeon
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    Hi Gary - Differences between MTB and road:

    1. The road bike will have you in a much different riding position - less upright, more forward leaning, and using a somewhat different set of muscles
    2. The road bike will have much less rolling resistance than even your MTB with slicks. The larger-diameter wheels and MUCH narrower (and higher-pressure) tires will astound you with how much easier they are to pedal along.


    On the other hand, if you don't need a road bike, and are satisfied with what you've got, there's no need to change. Sooner or later, an "unbeatable deal" on another bike will come along. When it does, you may wish you'd waited to "upgrade."

    Finally, if the components on your current bike are sufficient to your needs, don't change them just for the sake of upgrading. If the components you have wear out - then ask the LBS if there's a better quality replacement available.

    Although the advice I've typed above is the "standard, sensible" line, I don't necessarily follow it myself... I've been known to waste my $$ just to have a part that I **thought** I needed. Your money - your choice.

  11. #11
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    Well, I'd make the following comments: if you put in the same effort on a road bike that you do on the MTB you'll go considerably faster or as fast for quite a bit further.

    It's difficult to compare bikes because as Greg LeMond observed, "It never gets any easier, you just go faster."

  12. #12
    Senior Member Garfield Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Gee
    This thread has me wondering...

    Does it make any sense to upgrade my Trek 3900 MTB (I've already installed slicks, but that's it) rather than migrate to a road bike? (Or until I migrate to a road bike?)

    It's being a pretty good bike so far, for what it is -- your basic, entry level MTB, with 1100 miles on it.
    Fred, if you find yourself riding mostly on asphalt or concrete roads and you like the nice long rides and speed is somewhat of a factor, then you would do well to just go ahead and get the road bike. Performance bike owns Nashbar and Supergo. From the other posts on bike forums, Performance is going to cut loose from Specialized and Giant. That means there's a lot of good deals out there with Performance with these two manufacturers, even now before Christmas.

  13. #13
    Berry Pie..the Holy Grail GrannyGear's Avatar
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    To reiterate, Gary......the riding style, experience, and purposes of roadbike/mtn bikes are each uniquely different-- and the more miles you do, the more the difference is highlighted. You're a "serious cyclist", i.e. it is a significant, regular part of your life that you savor and want to put some focus on for a long time to come, so it may be time to consider indulging in the different sensations each type of bike gives you. Most of your riding is on pavement, speed is fun, and the higher miles and organized rides you've mentioned wanting to do may as well be done in way that maximizes your efficiency, your sense of grace, and encourages you to do even more....all of which may be better done on the roads of SanDiego with a road-designed bike. You may well end up shouting "WooHoot" as you spin up the road on that road bike--be it a Madone or an $800 used practical machine.

    A road bike won't necessarily make you faster or longer ranged.....but, as Grant Peterson says, it won't hold you back either. Besides, more bikes give you more places to hang wet laundry and more compelling reasons to spend more money with those upgrades. Face it, Gary....jogging would have been cheaper, but, oh no, you had to choose cycling. LOL
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  14. #14
    "Old & Slow Rider" BJ Ondo's Avatar
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    LOL, I guess I'm the strange one here, I have not want for a pure road bike, I really enjoy the thought that I can keep, "riding on" no matter the road surface! My $450 dollar Fuji Monterey Comfort bike is really closer to a "hardtail" MTB of a few years back and I've treated it as such and it just keeps working perfect. Don't see the real need to change much, someday I might get a more "MTB" triple crankset as my only limits I've found on dirt have been my 28/38/48 gearing, could use a 22-24 for some of the steeper/slipperier hills I've climbed.

    My lowly Deore rear derailer and a Shimano "non-named" front derailer have worked excellently weither on or off road so "why" upgrade?? I have added some niceities, rear rack, tailpack, head and tail light, bargin computer, front fender, and my favorite "Christopher METAL half-clips", which make the OEM pedles work great, road or off road! 50mm of suspension in the front fork seems to be great cause I'm not doing "Serious DH racing" and the suspension seat post and Gel comfort seat don't seem to leave me as "beat up" as the MTB riders I follow after a long days ride on a rippley Colorado dirt back road!

    I did upgrade tires went to a "high center ridge, knobby" from the OEM Snakebelly tread for more grip off road, with almost no difference in "speed" or feeling on road. Mainly I wait till something "breaks" before bothering to waste money upgrading. Although if I had the money, I just might break down and get a 2nd. set of wheels with 26X1.5 Slicks, just for those days that I find a "rodie" to ride with!
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  15. #15
    OM boy cyclezen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarHorizon
    Hi Gary - Differences between MTB and road:

    On the other hand, if you don't need a road bike, and are satisfied with what you've got, there's no need to change. Sooner or later, an "unbeatable deal" on another bike will come along. When it does, you may wish you'd waited to "upgrade."
    not to hijack your thread Stapfam - but to echo FarHorizon on Gary's Q. It's always nice to have some options and variety. having 2 bikes is more about opening all cycling possibilties than being frivolity.

    back to upgrading...
    sounds like you've done most of what I would. Given the frame is close to topline in design and execution, then itz just the hangon stuff.
    The items that get my attention are usually drivetrain related. Wheels of course, not necessarily the most expensive, just the best for both performance, durability and longevity. I imagine that wheel decisions would be as impostant in MTB as in road.
    A crazy thing that really gets my attention is the BB. I find as huge a variance in sealed BBs as in the older open bearing systems from way back. I'm very critical of the BB function under heavy load of out of saddle climbing and any big gear pushing or sprinting. I've found that FSA BBs can be very variable. Some are okay, some are terribly sloppy under load. I have 3 spare FSA BBs that are just sitting around cause they are not right riding under a load. Truvativ, on the other hand, seem to be quite consistent in a higher quality sortta way, Shimano Square Taper UN BBs are a mixed bag with short service life.
    I personally prefer a good open race BB, like Campy NR, SR and at the pinnacle, Campy C-record. If properly adjusted and kept serviced, they function incredibly well under loads and will last forever.
    I also like Deore open race BBs, they were built to last generations...
    That, of course, limits what cranks can be used.
    Newer Shimano BBs? have no opinion since I own nothing using an Octalink config. Solid shifting - alsi important, so durable, consistent, long wearing derailleurs and shifters.
    whatz left?

  16. #16
    Senior Curmudgeon
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclezen
    ...I find as huge a variance in sealed BBs as in the older open bearing systems from way back...
    Cyclezen is RIGHT! I didn't consider BB an item worth upgrading because ALL of my bikes already had sealed-bearing BB's. Now that I think back to the "bad old days," though, the BB's of yore weren't in the same category as the modern ones. Also, the new ones don't get "yucked up" quickly like the old ones did.

    Good catch!

  17. #17
    Elite Fred mollusk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarHorizon
    Cyclezen is RIGHT! I didn't consider BB an item worth upgrading because ALL of my bikes already had sealed-bearing BB's. Now that I think back to the "bad old days," though, the BB's of yore weren't in the same category as the modern ones. Also, the new ones don't get "yucked up" quickly like the old ones did.

    Good catch!
    I'm confused. I have an old Sugino BB with over 30K miles on in and it is still perfect. All I do is clean and repack it every year and it just got its annual service about a month ago. It looks brand new. I can adjust it to be smooth with no play. One thing that helps keep it nice is that it is on an old C'dale so the bottom bracket is sealed from the inside of the seat tube so there is no path for crud to work its way down to the moving parts. You can put a liner in your BB to seal the bottom of the seat tube if you need to.
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  18. #18
    Senior Curmudgeon
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    Quote Originally Posted by mollusk
    ...One thing that helps keep it nice is that it is on an old C'dale so the bottom bracket is sealed from the inside of the seat tube...
    I think you've hit the nail on the head! Most bikes don't have sealed bottom shells. Condensation, grime, dirt, etc. constantly migrate to the bottom bracket making non-sealed bearings high-wear items.

    With sealed bearings, the crud doesn't affect the bearings so much and they stay smooth. Your Cannondale is an anomoly among the legions of non-sealed-bearing bottom brackets IMHO.

  19. #19
    Jim Shapiro
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarHorizon
    I think you've hit the nail on the head! Most bikes don't have sealed bottom shells. Condensation, grime, dirt, etc. constantly migrate to the bottom bracket making non-sealed bearings high-wear items.

    With sealed bearings, the crud doesn't affect the bearings so much and they stay smooth. Your Cannondale is an anomoly among the legions of non-sealed-bearing bottom brackets IMHO.
    Have to disagree with you on this one. I have two Centurions and a Miyata, all with non-sealed bottom brackets. These bikes are all at least 15 years old and their BBs feel as smooth as butter. I packed one of the Centurions last year when I converted it to a fixed gear and the BB was quite clean when I opened it up. These are all road bikes and I try not to ride when it's wet or snowy, but all three get ridden frequently. Maybe the dirt buildup you speak of has something to do with the humidity. It's very dry here in Colorado. One other thing, I go over my bikes with a clean rag after each ride, bottom bracket included.

    Jim

  20. #20
    OM boy cyclezen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarHorizon
    I think you've hit the nail on the head! Most bikes don't have sealed bottom shells. Condensation, grime, dirt, etc. constantly migrate to the bottom bracket making non-sealed bearings high-wear items.
    With sealed bearings, the crud doesn't affect the bearings so much and they stay smooth. Your Cannondale is an anomoly among the legions of non-sealed-bearing bottom brackets IMHO.
    I think I'm partially misunderstood...
    I did mean to say that even though the modern sealed BB units are a nice thought, not all of them are well executed. The good ones are okay...
    I would say that my experience with open bearing systems is that the lower level ones are difficult to keep going for the decades of service I've come to expect; but the better ones are solid performers, even 25 years later. Tearing them down regularly and cleaning is an important process, and out here in CA I do that at least 2x a year. Back when I was an Right Coaster I did it 3x-4x, depending on how much winter ridin I got in (and that was all 'road' except for a little cyclocross, which necessitated BB cleaning almost after every ride - sealed wooda been good for this...).
    I still prefer the open bearing system. I feel that a good open BB, properly adjusted is way less prone to the twisting forces of standing on the pedals than those units where the bearings are couched in their cocoons.
    There is a clear difference (better) in the way my Campy C-record crankset works under load compared to every other sealed unit Crankset I now have (which total 3 road bikes in combo of Truvativ and FSA BBs). I'm considering the move back to a C-record cranks and BB set for the Titan, which will be a racing bike.
    Sealed Bearings? Okay if thatz all that was available, but I have the 'vintage' experience and hardware for 'road'. MTB, I would have to sit long and hard on the merits of Sealed V Open for the 'dirtier' MTB environment. So are my quirks...
    I'll glady accept donations of any and all OLD crappage open bearing BBs that anyone might be upgradin to a modern sealed unit.
    Last edited by cyclezen; 11-29-05 at 11:33 AM.

  21. #21
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Gee
    This thread has me wondering...

    Does it make any sense to upgrade my Trek 3900 MTB (I've already installed slicks, but that's it) rather than migrate to a road bike? (Or until I migrate to a road bike?)

    It's being a pretty good bike so far, for what it is -- your basic, entry level MTB, with 1100 miles on it.

    Youv'e found the joys of Biking, and the amount you are enjoying it. It probably is time to think about the new bike. Suggest you look at the better quality hybrids like the specialised Cirrus. As far as I can see, this is a Road bike with comfort in the way of straight bars. I know they work, from riding with them on a long ride earlier in the year, and the owners were very pleased with them.

    On upgrading a lower quality bike, and it may be different in the U.S. but in the U.K. the majority of bikes sold are mountain bikes. First thing to do on one of these is to get the riding position correct. May involve a change of bars, saddle and stem, but if it fits it will work. Then you have to decide on the type of riding you are going to do. If you are mainly on the road, then a change to slicks will help tremendously, and will still allow a bit of dry weather trail riding. If the bike is low quality, then that is all I would do untill it is decided that this keeping fit thingy works for you.
    Most bikes, and apoligies to the rockefellars, are sold with Machine made wheels. These will benefit from being looked at by a good wheel smith. They work wonders on any wheel but if the wheels are low quality, then a hand built pair will definitely be worth while. Then there is the gearing. Why on earth a mountain bike looks as though it is set up for offroad, but has the wrong gearing on it beats me. Any respectable offroad hill will have you looking for the lowest gear very quickly. If that is not low enough then you will be walking. Front sprockets of 44/32/22 are a true mountain bikes crankset , and coupled with an 11/ 28 for 8 speed or 11/32 for 9 will give you a gear that will eventually get you up the hills. Then there are the things that work well enough such as brakes and deraillers, these will be changed when they wear out and hopefully upgraded---- But how about the cables. I dont go for teflon coated or any fancy wonder material. I just use Stainless steel ones on the brakes and gears and keep them lubricated. Coatings wear off or get a snick in them after about 3 rides for me and ordinary cable rust even quicker.

    Next stage is to look at the heart of the bike-- the Frame. Is it worth upgrading? or is it time to buy a new bike? A lower quality bike will get you started. An upgraded good frame will keep you going for quite a few years, but I hate to say it- That top quality bike will last for years.
    How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


    Spike Milligan

  22. #22
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyMtnMerlin
    ONE of the wonderful things about having ridden bikes (as an adult) since the late 70's is experienceing the vast improvements in the components. Mid (and in some cases even lower) level stuff is now as good as or better than top of the line used to be. The new stuff lasts longer, functions better, is safer and lighter than days gone by. If I had a reasonably nice bike and had some money to upgrade its performance, I would opt for a good set of lightweight wheels. They improve ride quality and efficiency. Taken care of, they will last a LONG time. Just my .02's worth.

    By the way I ride a titanium Merlin Extralight, Campy Record equiped bike with Topolino clincher wheels.

    p.s. if I had all of cyclintom's bicycles I couldn't even decide which one to ride each day! Wow
    You are 100% correct about the new medimum grade parts being better than the high end parts from 30 years ago. I just replace my rear derailer an El Cheapo derailer I was amazed at the improvement.

    My $.0.02 worth on the upgrade trail is buy the best you can afford to start with. Then ride it until a part fails then replace the part with a better one.

    Good hubs and wheels make a nice upgrade. The way I did the upgrade is I purchased all the parts and laced the wheels myself and save a few dollars, it is not that hard to do.

    I don't know if it is an upgrade or not but taking a new bike apart and using good lube on everything a nice place to start. For two reasons you know the quality of lube and you know the part has been lubed. (Are you sure the factory lubed your crank set?)

    You do have to do the reality check when doing upgrades and ask yourself is the cost of a part worth the added benefit to having the part. Carbon fiber bottle holders come to mind, along with anything marketed as just like, Lance, Ted, Or Eddy uses.

    Then all bets are off if you race for money in which case the sky is the limit on what you spend on your bike.

    The one thing every new rider should get is a good pair of bicycle pants.

    Joe
    Schwinn Super Le Tour
    Specialized Rockhopper 05

  23. #23
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mollusk
    I'm confused. I have an old Sugino BB with over 30K miles on in and it is still perfect. All I do is clean and repack it every year and it just got its annual service about a month ago. It looks brand new. I can adjust it to be smooth with no play. One thing that helps keep it nice is that it is on an old C'dale so the bottom bracket is sealed from the inside of the seat tube so there is no path for crud to work its way down to the moving parts. You can put a liner in your BB to seal the bottom of the seat tube if you need to.
    Where to get a BB liner? I am riding an old steel Sannino that has actual cut outs in the BB. I need a liner just to keep it clean. The liner in their now is getting a bit worn after 20 years. I didn't see any such liners at loosescrews.com, but maybe I am searching for the wrong thing.

    Help.

  24. #24
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    Ask at your LBS - they should have some in stock.

  25. #25
    Gios
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    I recently swapped (upgraded?) a very nice Aluminium frame Gios with highish end components (Chorus/Record) to an even nicer Ti/Carbon frame Colnago with low/middish components (mostly Centaur, but some "own brand" stuff as well"). Based on that, I would do everything to upgrade the frame .. if my experience is anything to go by, everything else is secondary compared to the difference that can make.

    I would also take issue that components such as brakes and bars don't really make a difference. The Centaur brakes were just not as solid/reassuring as the Chorus brakes, and I couldn't wait to get the no-name/Chinese copy handlebar off. Much too much vibration and movement compared to my Deda.

    IMHO of course.

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