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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by webist
    If the self-appointed expert is establishing a goal to achieve an exalted state of their own description and applying it only to his or herself, why would the opinion of a lurking, obstreperous and truculent poster matter?
    Because the "lurking, obstreperous and truculent poster" is part of our community and entitled to his/her opinion also. One can ignore him/her or rebut and start fireworks.


  2. #52
    I need more cowbell. Digital Gee's Avatar
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    Whoa -- Big Paulie, where did you get that vocabulary? There were enough $10 words in there to fill a thesaurus!

    However, that said, let me add a +1 and agree!
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  3. #53
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Paulie

    In that regard, they're not a part of our community.
    And what "our community" would that be? Are YOU the gatekeeper?

  4. #54
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webist
    If the self-appointed expert is establishing a goal to achieve an exalted state of their own description and applying it only to his or herself, why would the opinion of a lurking, obstreperous and truculent poster matter?
    If applying the goals of the exalted state only to his or herself I can't imagine why anyone else would care. A lurking, obstreperous and truculent poster would object only when the exalted goals are extrapolated as the required or expected goals to the mystical population of "serious cyclists", and conversely used to measure the worthiness/seriousness of anyone else's cycling activities.

  5. #55
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Gee
    Whoa -- Big Paulie, where did you get that vocabulary? There were enough $10 words in there to fill a thesaurus!

    However, that said, let me add a +1 and agree!
    And I suppose you are the key master of "our community."

  6. #56
    I need more cowbell. Digital Gee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    And I suppose you are the key master of "our community."
    Yawn.
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  7. #57
    Around now and then DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    If applying the goals of the exalted state only to his or herself I can't imagine why anyone else would care. A lurking, obstreperous and truculent poster would object only when the exalted goals are extrapolated as the required or expected goals to the mystical population of "serious cyclists", and conversely used to measure the worthiness/seriousness of anyone else's cycling activities.
    Were you once attacked and beat up by a group of "serious" cyclists wearing the most expensive Lycra and riding $6,000 Sevens all the time chanting, "The only good bicyclist is a serious road bicyclist?"
    Last edited by DnvrFox; 04-21-06 at 06:17 AM.
    DnvrFox - still bicycling, swimming, walking and weight lifting at 74yo is participating a bit in BFN 50+.

  8. #58
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    Recreational Biking ----OR----- Performance Biking.
    The former can be immensely enjoyable. It emphasizes fellowship, outdoors, good food, good wine, scenery and fun. I have done it for over ten years.

    The latter chases (in my case) what is called a runners high. It is scary how strung up I feel. This is the result of at least two hours/day intense exercise and much more on weekends. Perhaps also the result of all this high energy food? The reward (for +50 crowd) is a temporary feeling of being empowered as in younger years. It also affects your mind. I play aggressive computer chess and have seen my point rating improve slowly over these years. Performance oriented biking is not as social because time pressures prevent socializing. A performance biker is intense and often self centered. (very much true for me)

    The dispute between Wildwood and I-Like-To-Bike can be seen as a misunderstanding of Wildwoods intent. I have read his post to be a self analysis that for him (perhaps) Performance Biking would be better.
    I-Like-To-Bike read this as a value judgment that Wildwood thinks that Performance Biking is better in general.

    I hope this long post makes it clear that I do not think so. However, they are very different and appeal to different folks. The long term benefits of Vs the other remain to be seen.

  9. #59
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DnvrFox
    Were you once attacked and beat up by a group of "serious" cyclists wearing the most expensive Lycra and riding $6,000 Sevens all the time chanting, "The only good bicyclist is a serious road bicyclist?"
    Nope. Just understand that potential cyclists are driven away in droves in North America by self proclaimed serious cyclists (and related marketeers) imbued with the significance of the cult of performance/fitness. Obviously those obsessed with themselves and their performance don't have any problem at all. especially when the clique shares a common case of the cutsies.

  10. #60
    Around now and then DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    Nope. Just understand that potential cyclists are driven away in droves in North America
    A cite or reference, please.
    DnvrFox - still bicycling, swimming, walking and weight lifting at 74yo is participating a bit in BFN 50+.

  11. #61
    I need more cowbell. Digital Gee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    Nope. Just understand that potential cyclists are driven away in droves in North America by self proclaimed serious cyclists (and related marketeers) imbued with the significance of the cult of performance/fitness. Obviously those obsessed with themselves and their performance don't have any problem at all. especially when the clique shares a common case of the cutsies.
    I would like to meet ONE potential cyclist who was driven away in a drove (or a huff, or even a snit) by the various posts on the 50+ forum. As someone who stumbled back into cycling last year with no friends who did it who could give me any advice, it was the 50+ forum specifically that helped me stay motivated, gave me good advice, offered me the hand of fellowship, and gave me a place to connect to people my age (or a even a lot older, like that guy in Colorado...).

    Now, if there was no 50+ forum, I don't know if I would have stuck with it. Perhaps, perhaps not. The other BF forums (fora?) are simply not as engaging, friendly, or inclusive to me. YMMV, of course. But I love the diversity of riders, the knowledge base, the friendly teasing and banter, the sharing and all the rest that goes on in 50+. Not every post has something valuable for me, but those which don't, I simply skip.

    Anyway -- love to hear from someone (other than I-Like-To-Bike) who finds the 50+ forum off-putting.
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  12. #62
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DnvrFox
    A cite or reference, please.
    The best kind. Me. You know someone with better info?

    Racing and club activities are fine for those who enjoy them, so enjoy! Just leave out the association of such activities with the buzz words "serious," "real;" or "true" cycling. And any/every time a poster posts about getting back into cycling after the age of 50 arrives perhaps the roadie afficianadoes could ease up on their sales pitch for new members.

    Take a look at the number of over 16 year olds you see cycling anywhere. Better yet look for positive references for cycling in the media that includes any reference to competitive or club cycling activities.
    Only the inspiring Lance Armstrong Story stands out; and which in the US is at least as much about pseudo-patriots chest thumping about whipping those ***** Frenchmen at their own pansy game, than about cycling. How many of those jokers even know the name of another race let alone another competitive cyclist's name anywhere in the world. You think anyone knows or cares what their local cycling club is called or WTF they do other than dress up in wierd clothes and sometimes seem to unnecessarily block traffic in their funny formations on country roads?

  13. #63
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    I'm 51, got by used Marin MTB, about 2 years ago. I only found this forum about 2-3 months ago, I have totally enjoyed the information and the easy bantering. I therefore cannot count as one that was offput. I seriously bike for fun!

  14. #64
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LynnH
    I'm 51, got by used Marin MTB, about 2 years ago. I only found this forum about 2-3 months ago, I have totally enjoyed the information and the easy bantering. I therefore cannot count as one that was offput. I seriously bike for fun!
    If you like bantering you definitely came to the right place. I just missed that part as the purpose of this forum. Denver has made it quite clear for whom this list is really intended for the good ole boys (and maybe even girls) who share the same "vision" despite the jive about being all-inclusive.

    Dee-Gee, Big Paulie and Grannjy and maybe some others of the cutsey clique getting all smug and pompous with me and all; See ya later, when I cool down.

  15. #65
    I need more cowbell. Digital Gee's Avatar
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    Gosh, in all my fifty five years, I've never been part of a clique before! (None would have me, I should confess.) I'm humbled...

    Anyway, this "debate" isn't going to change anyone's mind so I'm going to drop it like a lead pipe. A hot potato? Whatever. I-Like-To-Bike -- have a good day (I'm serious!) and enjoy your bike. I sure enjoy mine.
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  16. #66
    Berry Pie..the Holy Grail GrannyGear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Gee
    Gosh, in all my fifty five years, I've never been part of a clique before! (None would have me, I should confess.) I'm humbled...

    Anyway, this "debate" isn't going to change anyone's mind so I'm going to drop it like a lead pipe. A hot potato? Whatever. I-Like-To-Bike -- have a good day (I'm serious!) and enjoy your bike. I sure enjoy mine.
    +1. (Though tempting to continue.....besides, I'd like to return this thread to Will's excitement and pleasure over enacting in real life his "Desiderata".)

    Have to smile though...been a very long time since somebody called me "cute". "Pompous" comes in almost daily. DG, Paulie and "some others"-- you make nice company.
    Last edited by GrannyGear; 04-21-06 at 11:38 AM.
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  17. #67
    Around now and then DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    The best kind. Me. You know someone with better info?
    Must I answer that? Goodness.

    Racing and club activities are fine for those who enjoy them, so enjoy! Just leave out the association of such activities with the buzz words "serious," "real;" or "true" cycling. And any/every time a poster posts about getting back into cycling after the age of 50 arrives perhaps the roadie afficianadoes could ease up on their sales pitch for new members.

    Take a look at the number of over 16 year olds you see cycling anywhere. Better yet look for positive references for cycling in the media that includes any reference to competitive or club cycling activities.
    Only the inspiring Lance Armstrong Story stands out; and which in the US is at least as much about pseudo-patriots chest thumping about whipping those ***** Frenchmen at their own pansy game, than about cycling. How many of those jokers even know the name of another race let alone another competitive cyclist's name anywhere in the world. You think anyone knows or cares what their local cycling club is called or WTF they do other than dress up in wierd clothes and sometimes seem to unnecessarily block traffic in their funny formations on country roads?
    http://www.ibike.org/library/statistics.htm



    Well, someone is buying them. An increase of 5 million per year.

    By the way, "Cute" sure beats "arguing and continuously complaining!"

    Also:

    bikesbelong.oli.us/Media_Monitor/Yahoo.pdf

    Bicycle sales boom in US amid rising gas prices
    Sat Oct 1, 9:15 AM ET
    More bicycles than cars have been sold in the United States over the past 12 months, with rising gas prices promptingcommuters to opt for two wheels instead of four.

    Not since the oil crisis of 1973 have bicycles sold in such big numbers, according to Tim Blumenthal, executive director of Bikes Belong, an industry association.

    "Bicycle sales are near an all-time high with 19 million sold last year -- close to the 20 million sold during the oil embargo in the early 1970s," said Blumenthal, whose association is based in Boulder in the western state of Colorado.

    The US Chamber of Commerce says more bicycles have been sold than cars over the past 12 months.
    In a country where most of the population still relies heavily on cars, some 87 million people have climbed on a bike in the past 12 months, Blumenthal said.

    While less than car sales, bike sales generate about five to six billion dollars of business a year, he said.
    Bicycles are back mainly because the sharp increase in gas prices has made them a practical alternative, said Paul Gaiser, owner of Scooter Commuter in Bethesda, Maryland.

    "Above all it's the higher price of gas, but also it's concern for the environment and the cost of another car," Gaiser told AFP.

    The average price of gas in the United States has increased 47.3 percent in a year, according to figures published last week by the American Automobile Association.

    Gaiser believes the bicycle trend is no passing fad.

    "Our sales have quadrupled in the last two months," he said. "I think it's a major paradigm shift. It's here to stay."

    Cyclists on the streets of the US capital agreed.

    "I bought my first bike six months ago to go to college. I could not do without it. It's faster in traffic and less expensive," said Erik Lubell, a student at George Washington University wearing a multi-colored helmet.

    Near the affluent district of Georgetown, Stella Hardwood said she had a different motivation.
    "I don't want to put on weight and my bike forces me to exercise," Hardwood said.

    The superstar status of cycling champion Lance Armstrong, who has won the Tour de France seven times, has also helped spark interest in the sport.

    The US government has also done its part to promote a more bicycle-friendly environment. Some 3.5 million dollars in federal money has been set aside to create cycling trails over the next four years.

    Gosh, bicycle sales would REALLY be high if the 50+ Bike Forum wasn't driving consumers away in droves!
    Last edited by DnvrFox; 04-21-06 at 04:04 PM.
    DnvrFox - still bicycling, swimming, walking and weight lifting at 74yo is participating a bit in BFN 50+.

  18. #68
    Senior Member jazzy_cyclist's Avatar
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    Back on the original message, just like to add my support (and express my envy) - that sounds like an awesome adventure that you're gonna have. I too, will be looking forward to the ride report(s)...

  19. #69
    In Memory of One Cool Cat Blackberry's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Digital Gee]I would like to meet ONE potential cyclist who was driven away in a drove (or a huff, or even a snit) by the various posts on the 50+ forum. QUOTE]

    I've never ridden a Drove, but I do have a titanium Snit with full Dura Ace components as well as a classic lugged steel Huff outfitted with Suntour Superbe Pro. Call me crazy, but I love 'em both equally.
    Dead last finish is better than did not finish and infinitely better than did not start.

  20. #70
    I need more cowbell. Digital Gee's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Blackberry]
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Gee
    I would like to meet ONE potential cyclist who was driven away in a drove (or a huff, or even a snit) by the various posts on the 50+ forum. QUOTE]

    I've never ridden a Drove, but I do have a titanium Snit with full Dura Ace components as well as a classic lugged steel Huff outfitted with Suntour Superbe Pro. Call me crazy, but I love 'em both equally.
    ROFLMAO!

    Let me know when/if you put either one up for sale!
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  21. #71
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DnvrFox
    Gosh, bicycle sales would REALLY be high if the 50+ Bike Forum wasn't driving consumers away in droves!

    1. Nobody said the 50's forum has any effect on anyone but its own members. The issue was the cult of the serious cyclists and the requirement for fitting the profile.
    2. I'm not talking about sales. I was talking about cycling. There is a difference.

    But I intend to drop the subject and let the smarmy ***'s continue to gloat with you and electronically high five each other on this and other threads.

  22. #72
    Senior Member Thrifty1's Avatar
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    Please define "elitist" as it relates to 50+ forum. What are the qualifications/requisites to become an "elitist"?
    I am 60, overweight, own/ride a hybrid occasionally, own/ride a road bike, own/ride a touring bike, and have been called most everything including "old fart".....do I qualify for membership ??

  23. #73
    Dances With Cars TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
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    as requested.....the new '07 Drove - Elitist Bastard with new can't suck-this-wheel Pissy tires
    Last edited by TRaffic Jammer; 04-26-06 at 02:27 PM.

  24. #74
    In Memory of One Cool Cat Blackberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRaffic Jammer

    as requested.....the new '07 Drove - Elitist Bastard with new can't suck-this-wheel Pissy tires

    I want one. Real bad.
    Dead last finish is better than did not finish and infinitely better than did not start.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRaffic Jammer

    as requested.....the new '07 Drove - Elitist Bastard with new can't suck-this-wheel Pissy tires
    Dear God, I am in love.

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