Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Fifty Plus (50+)
Reload this Page >

Cadence is Learned!

Notices
Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

Cadence is Learned!

Old 04-30-06, 10:20 AM
  #1  
Let's do a Century
Thread Starter
 
jppe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,316

Bikes: Cervelo R3 Disc, Pinarello Prince/Campy SR; Cervelo R3/Sram Red; Trek 5900/Duraace, Lynskey GR260 Ultegra

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 651 Post(s)
Liked 879 Times in 408 Posts
Cadence is Learned!

If it makes any difference to anyone, spinning a higher cadence (85 or higher) is a "learned" activity. For newcomers, don't be too concerned to see your cadence in the 75-85 range. Even experienced riders have to relearn spinning at higher cadences occassionally.

My brother has been riding for 10 plus years and takes a different winter training regime than I do. My brother is a stronger overall rider than I am in terms of speed and climbing ability. Maybe being 12 years younger helps as well. His approach is to ride less (less than 200/month) and do weight lifting. He really improves his overall strength doing this but loses some aerobics during that period of time. My approach has been to continue to ride as much as I can. In fact I averaged 500-600 miles over the winter months doing the weekly centuries at slow speeds. By summer, his overall conditioning will probably be better than mine.

When he started back to increasing his mileage he had real difficulties spinning at his old normal higher rates. Thus, he concentrated for several weeks on spinning at higher cadences and now has that tuned back up. So, even for someone that has more than 50,000 miles in the saddle sometimes they have to relearn some activities.

By the way, I just beat his personal record at the last Time Trials by 5 seconds!! So, we continue to challenge each other and push each other using different methods. Which one is best? Probably whichever one the person really applies themself to.
jppe is offline  
Old 04-30-06, 12:49 PM
  #2  
Ti #18 Senior.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 337

Bikes: Serotta Concours

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
What is the advantage?

I am 68, 210 lbs, and riding 150 - 200 miles a week as training for the upcoming "Bike Virginia" ride (250 miles for me in 5 days) at the end of June. I find myself most comfortable in the 75 - 85 RPM range. What would be the advantage of learning to spin at a higher cadence?


Thanks for any information.

Jim
abqhudson is offline  
Old 04-30-06, 04:19 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
RockyMtnMerlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Laramie Wyoming
Posts: 2,970

Bikes: Merlin Extralight Topolino Wheels Campy Record

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I agree that riding at a higher cadence is learned. At first it does not feel natural. FWIW - I find that I can produce more power (and in my case more is an extremely relative term ) at 94 - 96 rpms on the flats riding solo and my legs fare better if I keep my climbing cadence at least at 80-85 rpm. Getting a compact has helped in the latter category. Finally, I find that the higher cadence is easier on my knees.
RockyMtnMerlin is offline  
Old 04-30-06, 04:28 PM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 69

Bikes: Serotta Fierte; Specialized FSR120 Pro

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sometimes it's learned out of necessity. When I started riding, about 10 months ago, I was so weak I had no option but to use the gears and spin. I'm 54 years old and the owner of bad skinny legs I think this helped me learn to spin smoothly. As an example today I did a 43 mile ride and my average cadence was 95. The max cadence I hit on this ride was 140. A dog surprised me and cought me on the 39 and I was too panicked to shift It is learned best by practice.
Mr. Fierte is offline  
Old 04-30-06, 04:55 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi All,

When I started back at 52 I determined it was better for me to go the high rpm route. This has really paid off for me in speed and endurance. Most people I come across are clugging away at 50-60 in the big ring.
I have 3 spin speeds..distance..sprint and pitbull.

Keep2up,
Bikinguy
Bikinguy is offline  
Old 04-30-06, 05:56 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
RockyMtnMerlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Laramie Wyoming
Posts: 2,970

Bikes: Merlin Extralight Topolino Wheels Campy Record

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bikinguy
Hi All,
I have 3 spin speeds..distance..sprint and pitbull.

Keep2up,
Bikinguy
RockyMtnMerlin is offline  
Old 04-30-06, 06:24 PM
  #7  
Let's do a Century
Thread Starter
 
jppe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,316

Bikes: Cervelo R3 Disc, Pinarello Prince/Campy SR; Cervelo R3/Sram Red; Trek 5900/Duraace, Lynskey GR260 Ultegra

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 651 Post(s)
Liked 879 Times in 408 Posts
Originally Posted by abqhudson
I am 68, 210 lbs, and riding 150 - 200 miles a week as training for the upcoming "Bike Virginia" ride (250 miles for me in 5 days) at the end of June. I find myself most comfortable in the 75 - 85 RPM range. What would be the advantage of learning to spin at a higher cadence?


Thanks for any information.

Jim

Jim-it sounds like you've gotten yourself in terrific shape and the 75-85 rpm range works very well for you. Most folks find spinning a slightly easier gear a little faster is easier on the legs, knees, etc. Also, if you're riding in a group and need to accelerate pretty quickly sometimes it's much easier to do with a gear that's suitable for a cadence of 85-95. Otherwise it's really hard to get the cranks turning quick enough.

I'm finding something in the 85-90 rpm range is my optimum range most riding. Now if I'm doing some climbing it drops significantly from that. I know several folks that do Bike Virginia and they really enjoy it. I'll need to get that on my schedule one of these years.
jppe is offline  
Old 04-30-06, 07:15 PM
  #8  
In Memory of One Cool Cat
 
Blackberry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 2,722

Bikes: Lemond Victoire, Cannondale.Mountain Bike, two 1980s lugged steel Treks, ancient 1980-something Giant mountain bike converted into a slick tired commuter with mustache handlebars, 1960-something Raleigh Sports

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
All good advice. My cadences are slow and slower. But I'm still turning the pedals!
__________________
Dead last finish is better than did not finish and infinitely better than did not start.
Blackberry is offline  
Old 05-05-06, 05:10 AM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Can someone explain the advantage of faster cadence to me? I ride long distances, but don't mind using my big ring/small cog on the flats - am I not doing right by myself. Replies appreciated.
Caruso
Carusoswi is offline  
Old 05-05-06, 06:30 AM
  #10  
Not So Senior Member
 
jisaak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pt. Dalhousie, ON
Posts: 155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
For me a higher cadence of 90-95 is ideal due to a bum knee. If I try to lug it out I put too much pressure on the joint causing discomfort, swelling, etc... When hill climbing I try to stay in the saddle as much as possible and use as many gears as possible. A total knee replacement is in my future but the doc says that I'm too young to have the surgery now, so I will have to keep on spinnin'.
Now that I think of it how come everyone else reminds me how old I am but the doc?
jisaak is offline  
Old 05-05-06, 07:22 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
jazzy_cyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North Central Massachusetts
Posts: 1,281

Bikes: Cannondale R600

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Carusoswi
Can someone explain the advantage of faster cadence to me? I ride long distances, but don't mind using my big ring/small cog on the flats - am I not doing right by myself. Replies appreciated.
Caruso
I'm sure there's lots of threads on BF that explain this better, but some of the highlights:

- higher cadence is easier on your knees
- higher cadence relies more on your aerobic abilities; lower cadence more on muscular endurance (Lance versus Ulrich)
- higher cadence less taxing on your legs so there's "more left" later on
- easier to accelerate
- required for sprinting

That said, you should do what's best for you. But it's definitely worth experimenting with.
jazzy_cyclist is offline  
Old 05-05-06, 07:44 AM
  #12  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Can someone explain the advantage of faster cadence to me?
Fairly complicated to explain simply - but I'll have a go! Generally speaking, faster cadences (90+) place less mechanical strain on your leg muscles, whereas lower cadences are more ecomonical (in terms of oxygen cost, VO2). That being the case, there is an argument that a true optimal cadence does not exist. From a practical point of view (according to Burke's book), optimising cadence is of value only when your power output exceeds 200W - less than that amount, cadence may not in fact change anything.

The choice appears to be a trade-off between: 1. Less muscle stress and better blood flow with a higher demand on your metabolic system (higher cadences) & 2. More muscle stress but less demand on your metabolic system (lower cadences).

A really good reference is Chapter 4: High-Tech Cycling - Edmund R. Burke (Editor). Specifically the chapter by Lucia et al. titled "Optimizing the Crank Cycle and Pedaling Cadence".

Burke's book looked at data from professional races (Giro, Tour & Veulta) and concluded that mean cadence during mountain ascents was ~70 and ~90 during time trials and flat stages. This, however, was variable and he gave the examples of Armstrong pedaling around ~100rpm (39x23) and Riijs ~70 rpm (53-tooth) in respective climbs during the Tour.

To sum up: pedal fast - your legs will last longer but you will be sucking in the breaths, pedal slow and you will place more demand on your legs and less on your breathing.

I pedal around 90-100. Hope this was of some help!

Last edited by zabba; 05-05-06 at 07:59 AM.
zabba is offline  
Old 05-05-06, 08:13 AM
  #13  
Isaias
 
NoRacer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 5,182

Bikes: Ridley X-Fire (carbon, white)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Here's what Dr. Michele Ferrari thinks about cadence:

High Pedaling Cadence 10 Mar 2003

High RPM: further observations 13 May 2003

Pedaling Cadences and Force Peaks 27 Nov 2003

The Lab is far from the Road 18 Feb 2004

Pedaling Efficiency is Crucial 5 May 2004

Pedal Stroke Efficiency 5 Jul 2004
NoRacer is offline  
Old 05-05-06, 09:11 AM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia southside
Posts: 364

Bikes: Lemond Buenos Aries, Gary Fisher Tassajara, Trek 4500, plus many more

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I think most of us have a "natural" cadence. Mine is apparently around 82. But when I do a lot of interval training it goes up quite a bit. I like to do interval training on a flat course with two minutes at 85 and then two minutes at over 100. I try to keep this up for one hour. After a few days of this, it appears that my "natural" cadence increases to closer to 90-95 and anything less seems to be slow. In fact, 85 becomes a "resting" cadence.
jabike is offline  
Old 05-05-06, 05:56 PM
  #15  
Love to ride!
 
starship's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Summerville, SC
Posts: 178

Bikes: 2010 Allegra 2X

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ok, here is "Natural" cadence? Maybe not. I have been riding for several years, but just last month bought a new computer with cadence (Polar CS200CAD). I was MUCH surprised to find myself spinning at 100-105. I can spin up to 113 without bouncing. Anything below 90 I feel “loaded” and strain more. Could I have learned to spin 100 RPM just from reading and being aware of spin rates? I do not know. But I do know that works well for me.

Comments welcome!
__________________
2010 Jamis Allegra 2X
God loves you, and God loves me, Even if I do cause his over time!
starship is offline  
Old 05-05-06, 06:26 PM
  #16  
I need more cowbell.
 
Digital Gee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 8,182

Bikes: 2015 Specialized Sirrus Elite

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Is there any easy way to count cadence without a cyclometer that measures cadence? I guess it's the old glance at the watch and count for sixty seconds, right? Did I just answer my own question?
__________________
2015 Sirrus Elite

Proud member of the original Club Tombay
Digital Gee is offline  
Old 05-05-06, 06:34 PM
  #17  
Perpetually lost
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Digital Gee
Is there any easy way to count cadence without a cyclometer that measures cadence? I guess it's the old glance at the watch and count for sixty seconds, right? Did I just answer my own question?
DG
Count for six seconds and multiply by 10.

JiO
old99 is offline  
Old 05-05-06, 06:36 PM
  #18  
I need more cowbell.
 
Digital Gee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 8,182

Bikes: 2015 Specialized Sirrus Elite

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by old99
DG
Count for six seconds and multiply by 10.

JiO
Ahhh...
__________________
2015 Sirrus Elite

Proud member of the original Club Tombay
Digital Gee is offline  
Old 05-05-06, 07:47 PM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Cadence depends on gearing. You won't be spinning fast very long in the higher gears
babysaph is offline  
Old 05-05-06, 08:54 PM
  #20  
I need more cowbell.
 
Digital Gee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 8,182

Bikes: 2015 Specialized Sirrus Elite

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Big Paulie
Or, watch the time on your computer. Pedal three half rotations (R-L-R, then L-R-L) every second for 90 rpm.
I have no idea what you mean. I'm not tracking.
__________________
2015 Sirrus Elite

Proud member of the original Club Tombay
Digital Gee is offline  
Old 05-07-06, 01:25 AM
  #21  
Time for a change.
 
stapfam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 6 miles inland from the coast of Sussex, in the South East of England
Posts: 19,913

Bikes: Dale MT2000. Bianchi FS920 Kona Explosif. Giant TCR C. Boreas Ignis. Pinarello Fp Uno.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
75 to 85 is what you are used to so why change. My comfort zone falls between 85 and 95. 85 and I am looking for a lower gear and 95 and I want a higher. Couple of weeks ago we checked speed to cadence at 100 in our highest gear and it was 30 mph. Still felt comfortable but made us realise that we would not keep that up for long. First slope came and to keep that cadence of 100 we were breathing a bit hard. Dropped the speed a bit, dropped the cadence to 90 and sailed up it. Next slope dropped the speed a bit again and cadence to 80 and we actually lost speed and had to change down to keep the cadence. We could not accelerate back up to 90 in that gear. Our little bit of checking cadence to speed also made us realise that last year we pushed ourselves up to 45 mph and were still pushing hard. That cadence we had then would have been 150. I said at the time that I never wanted to spin that fast again.

Now offroad- on the flat we try to keep to 90 and that is comfortable. Downhill we generally coast above 30 mph but can still put in power if speed drops. Uphills though we drop cadence considerably. Like to ride them at 70 to 80 but that is probably due to mental side of long steep hills that will take 10 minutes to climb. Then when we run of gears and energy- it is survival time and a cadence of 60 in the lowest gear. Much lower than that and we are at risk of stalling on the hill and falling off again.

Cadence is one of those things that will vary from cyclist to cyclist. There is no optimum or set cadence that applies to everyone. Only thing is that Newbies generally ride at a lower cadence- but as the legs and lungs and riding experience comes in, it rises. Now all I have to do is convince our fit rider that he is doing it all wrong with a cadence range of 45 to 60 and see if it slows him down a bit.
__________________
How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


Spike Milligan
stapfam is offline  
Old 05-07-06, 05:58 AM
  #22  
Geezer Member
 
Grampy™'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 1,384

Bikes: Airborne, LeMond, Bianchi CX, Volae Century, Redline 925 (fixed) and a Burley Tandem.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by babysaph
Cadence depends on gearing. You won't be spinning fast very long in the higher gears

That would be Pit bull....
__________________
Carpe who?
Grampy™ is offline  
Old 05-08-06, 04:52 AM
  #23  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well, I'm still confused. I assume that one RPM means that one leg travels through a complete pedal cycle, yes? So, if I want to know my cadence, I could count how many times my left foot hit the bottom of its cycle for 15 minutes and multiply that by four - right?

I tried this out on the road - I doubt if I ever pedal faster than about 45-50 RPM - and, as I look around at other cyclists, some alone, others in obviously "in-the-know" cycling groups, it doesn't appear that my pedaling is all that much slower than theirs, and, during a six hour day of cycling through pretty hilly terrain, I'll average 13-14 mph (that's from the speedo, not just a guess on my part).

What must I have wrong about all of this? I'm missing something somewhere. Please set me straight.

Thanks.

Caruso
Carusoswi is offline  
Old 05-08-06, 05:57 AM
  #24  
Banned.
 
DnvrFox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 20,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by Carusoswi
Well, I'm still confused. I assume that one RPM means that one leg travels through a complete pedal cycle, yes? So, if I want to know my cadence, I could count how many times my left foot hit the bottom of its cycle for 15 minutes and multiply that by four - right?
I'm sure it was just a "slip of the tongue" but RPM = Revolutions per minute, not revolutions per hour.

Therefore, you would count the number of complete revolutions in 15 seconds, not minutes, and multiply that by four.

BUt, my guess is that is exactly what you did, no matter what you wrote.

I lead rides for seniors, and there is a fellow there who probably has a cadence of about 50 RPM. He is in his mid 70's, and I am not about to tell him to change his cadence, especially since he keeps up with me just fine. (He also gets on the bike by placing his left foot on the pedal, pushing with his right foot on the same side, gets a running start and swings his leg over the seat, as I did as a kid!)

Cadence is not some magical concept, and if your feet keep pedaling and your bike keeps moving forward, why worry?

As far as the riders in your area, I don't have a clue. I know that around here, those riding road bikes generally have a cadence in the 80's to 90's+ because I pedal as they do, and that is my cadence.
DnvrFox is offline  
Old 05-08-06, 06:42 AM
  #25  
Isaias
 
NoRacer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 5,182

Bikes: Ridley X-Fire (carbon, white)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Carusoswi
Well, I'm still confused. I assume that one RPM means that one leg travels through a complete pedal cycle, yes? So, if I want to know my cadence, I could count how many times my left foot hit the bottom of its cycle for 15 minutes and multiply that by four - right?
Cadence = cycles per minute

1 cycle = 1 left pedal rotation + 1 right pedal rotation

*Sorry, editted several times 'cuz I'm not awake yet.
NoRacer is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.