cheeseflavor

This is probably my experience (or lack thereof) talking here, so I'm asking those of you have doubtless been down this road (pun intended) before.

For the last few rides, I've been sort of struggling. Feeling rather weak - legs burning, fatigue, general lack of power, top speed seems to be suffering as a result. Average speeds are still ok, but reaching those averages day in and day out is not as easy as it was a few short weeks ago.

The two weekly club rides I participate in are relatively fast - averaging 19+ mph over 30 miles of rolling hills and I usually finish with the front pack. The last couple of rides however, it hasn't been as easy as it was earlier in the year and the problem is, I'm not sure if it's temporary or if I'm really regressing.

Over the winter, Linda and I hit the trainers hard. Lots of Spinervals with special attention to hill climbing and leg strength. Now, we pretty much just ride, with no particular thought to training.

So, am I just in a funk and will it pass, or do I need to go back to basics?

Steve

crazyb

Are you riding hard every day? I find that if I take a day off after a hard ride, I come back much more refreshed. This is only my 2nd year back, so I'm no expert either.

stapfam

Agree here- Too much hard riding and no time to recover.

jazzy_cyclist

Sounds like you might be overtraining...

DnvrFox

Relax and smell the roses!

cyclintom

You shouldn't ride more than two days a week hard if you're over 50 and only 3 a week if you're under that.

You should ride a couple more days as well but you MUST ride easily with your heartrate at 60% or below. Preferably well below. What this amounts to is the almost continuous urge to speed up. The whole reason for heart rate monitors isn't to check how high your rate is but to know how low it is. That's because your recovery rides are just as important as your hard rides and they're much more difficult to judge.

jppe

Some other things to consider:

Have you been sleeping well? A couple night's sleep will do wonders. (I'm struggling with this one!!)

Also, after a hard ride, ride the next day- but only ride for about an hour to 1.5 hours and keep the pace/Heart Rate low. NO HAMMERING!! NONE!!! Then skip a day or two of riding and see if that doesn't help a little. Rest and Recovery are two of the most misunderstood and abused areas of riding......

Wildwood 

Be in control of your riding habits, don't let your riding habits be in control of you.

Digital Gee

I suspect you've been skipping pie. Do NOT overlook the importance of a good piece of pie. It's one of the four food groups.

hammerdocnomo

Steve.
Ditto the comments on "over training" but it is really "under recovery".
I suggest you cut back on your training volume by 50% for 2 weeks.
Cut out the group rides for 2 weeks. Keep your heart rate below 130 bpm on all the rides for those 2 weeks.
Then line up a race or fast group ride and just hammer those guys!!!!!!!!!!!
Good luck and let us know how you do.
Cheers.

cheeseflavor

I'm not sure I know HOW to take it easy. I mean, I try, I really try to take it easy, but the legs just start pumping and the wheels just start rolling and the wind just picks and.... well, I think you all understand. I tell myself that I'm not hurting anything... I mean, it's exercise, it MUST be good for you, right?

But today, my legs just ache. I feel like I was kicked in the glutes by a horse. The last few times out I just haven't felt strong at all. Even though I'm still able to hammer, it's more a chore than it should be.
I start thinking to myself, is my saddle too low? Is it too high? Is it too far forward? Too far back? Are my handlebars too low? What if I switched from 25c tires back to 23c? What about a compact crank?

I suspect I'm driving myself nuts, and I truly don't think I'm neurotic, but lately, I'm starting to wonder...

So, on the subject of training, let's say my max heartrate is 172 (220-my age). On a typical club ride, I'll average 145 bpm over the 30 mile course, I'll sustain 155 bpm for long (15-20 mins) stretches of time, and I'll hit my max a couple of times. I'll also take a couple of solo rides each week where I'll pretty much do the same thing. Is that overdoing it?

I just figured mileage was the factor, and not so much effort.

Thanks everyone for the advice, it is appreciated. I KNOW that what you all say is good common sense, and I will try to heed it.

Take care,

Steve

cheeseflavor

2 weeks!?

2 weeks?!

No seriously...

Wouldn't my legs just be a twigs by then? I mean, you don't use it you lose it, right? I'm not being facitious Doc, I just don't know if I could do this. All winter long I waited for these club rides.

What's next, knitting?

This is just too depressing...

Steve

cheeseflavor

Pie is the answer! How could I have forgotten the pie?



Steve

cheeseflavor

Thanks for the reply, jppe. And no, I haven't been sleeping particularly well. But, 5-6 hours a night is about average for me.

Steve

DnvrFox

The others being, of course:

milk (ice cream)
veggies (chocolate) and
breads (muffins)

rm -rf

I agree about the HRM to keep my effort in check. My max heartrate is about 175, I try to keep it 125-139 on recovery rides (about 70% to 80%). But a 60% rate would be 105, I think I would fall over from going too slow?

I used to go on a fast (for me) ride on Thursdays, but I wasn't fully recovered for Saturday, and felt slow. Now I try to do Wednesday and Saturday fast rides.

ken cummings

Absolutely, Especially the Chocolate Chip Cookie pie available at a local pie store.

will dehne

I am projecting from my own experience. I have been warned not to over train but went on a fast tour for 25 riding days at over 100 miles/day. There also was a lot of training before that. Therefore I am not so sure of over training.
Here are the differences of what you do vs what I do. My HR seldom goes above 140. Typical 120 and often less than that. I sprint up to HR 160 (on occasion).
Nutrition consists of a lot of food including recovery drink of 1000 calories, steaks and potatoes.

The most important difference is that I do not try to race every day. I go far and reasonably fast but at my comfortable pace and not someone else's. I have done what you do and have also experienced fatigue.

Raketmensch

One of the best pieces of advice I ever got on this topic was this: You do not get stronger by training hard. You get stronger by recovering after training hard.

That sounds almost like a cliche, but it captures a kernel of truth. The purpose of training is to overstress your body, and in so doing prompt a physiological response that will enable it to respond better to such stresses in the future. The stress occurs when you train, and the response occurs when you recover. Both are necessary. Push yourself two or three days a week, and then let your body respond in the way you want it to on the in-between days.

Good luck!

Dakota

So, is it better to go for a short but intense 25 miler, or for the not so intense 40 miler. Which is better for excercise and conditioning? Probably a mix of the two is better, but if you could only do one type of ride, which would you choose?

My interest is in building a healthier heart and lung system. I had way too many years that I abused them, and I'm trying to fix that.

So what's better? Short and intense? Long and strong?

Personally, I'll take a good cheesecake.

Blackberry

I wish I could remember who sald, "You've got to rest as hard as you train." I also wish I had listened to that wisdom before an overuse injury insisted that I take enforced rest of several months.

There's a growing body of literature about "periodization" that might help you build your speed (if that's your goal) without breaking your body apart. According to the book Bike for Life, "Periodization, in a nutshell, is a series of methodical, progressive physical challenges, PEPPERED WITH VARIETY AND PUNCTUATED WITH REST."

If you want a detailed description of how to use periodization to build fitness, check out The Ultimate Ride by Chris Carmichael (Lance's coach). Believe me, he won't have you sitting around the house knitting.

Whatever you do, please listen to your body. It's telling you something.

Trsnrtr

Part of the problem may stem from accumulative damage done starting a long time ago and may take more than two weeks to overcome. I've suffered this problem ever since I started riding in 1982. I love to ride. I mean really love to ride. I've never been able to rest properly, but luckily, I live in a four season climate and am generally forced to catch up on rest in the Winter.

Anyway, like cheeseflavor, I've been in a performance valley since the first of May. I blame it as much on my January riding than my April mileage. I keep extensive records and had the highest mileage January in my 25 year cycling history along with a relatively high Spring. I started noticing chronic soreness and fatigue that wouldn't go away about the first of May. I went to 60% levels and even took four days in a row off one week which is probably the first time since 2004. Finally, I felt good and rode a moderately paced century a week and a half ago. I still felt good after and continued upping my mileage until Monday of this week when I noticed I was "crashing" again; sore muscles, fatigue, no power, etc. In other words, I tried to "come back" too soon and I knew it, but I did it anyway.

To. the O.P., it may take a lot of rest, not just a couple of light weeks. Been there and done that... every darned year. I never listen to my own advice until I can't walk up a 6 step set of stairs. I can look back at my 25 years of logs and see the reason easily... January 300% higher than average, February 200% higher, March 80% higher, April 100% higher, May - KaBoom... A blind man could see it.


Dennis

GrannyGear

Steve, have you considered using your HRM to control your training? Checking your morning wake-up pulse to monitor over-training, setting the alarm for a heart rate that meets your goal for those days you want to keep it in the 60%'s, 70%'s, etc.

I find is surprizing how you can strategically cut back on training, still maintain your current level of fitness, and maximize rest and recovery...which will lead to your restoration. IOW, your legs won't turn to sticks or your heart to a marshmallow if you take days off, control yourself with some recovery rides, some "long slow distance" days, some short interval days (maybe after that period of rest) and some no-bike do-chores-for-Linda days. Once restored, then you can build yourself to wherever you want...as long as you keep the discipline of variety mixed with recovery.

There are natural laws that govern physical development-- and those in turn are shaped by our own unique physical attributes like heart volume, oxygen uptake, lactic acid production, metabolism, musculature, old injuries, and, yes "age".

Steve, using some sense and self-control, you could hit late summer tougher than ever. Tough minded, smart cycling will get you closer to tough-bodied cycling.

cyclintom

Firstly, if your legs are aching and you feel like crap you're overtrained now. It will probably take a month to rebuild. Recovery rides are AS important as testing rides. That general achy feeling is the muscle cells being destroyed from overuse and your body trying to get rid of the waste products.

As for Max Heart Rate - don't use those numbers. You absolutely MUST use a heart rate monitor in order to find your max heart rate and you can only do that when you're completely recovered. That number of 220 - age was almost pure fabrication but as luck would have it, the better shape you're in the closer you'll match it. If you haven't been an endurance athlete for at least three or four years you won't match that profile.

I know what you mean about recovery rides turning into hammer fests but the better you get the easier it will become to ride easy. When I was at my absolute best - able to ride on the front of the local races - was when I could go out and ride 12 mph for two hours without a problem.

Before you start gaining real shape it's all hard.

big john

I did the Breathless Agony ride (12000 feet of climbing in 114 miles) and the next week on Mt Baldy I felt weak and older than usual. I took it easy all that week and the next climbing ride tried to have fun and keep the pace down and it really helped. Sometimes I tell jokes or stories to my riding friends and this helps to calm them down and get them out of race mode, at least for a while. I did the Heartbreak Hundred last Saturday and I still feel it now. I may do another climbing ride this Saturday but it is starting to add up again. BTW I'm 52 and 210#.