Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-05-06, 02:52 PM   #1
FarHorizon
Senior Curmudgeon
Thread Starter
 
FarHorizon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Directly above the center of the earth
Bikes: Varies by day
Posts: 3,856
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Nearly died today.

See the following thread in the mechanics forum:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=1#post2621005

Now my wife is convinced that bicycling is "too dangerous" and that I need to give it up completely. My only hope is to find out what happened, why, and how to keep it from happening again.

HELP!
FarHorizon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-06, 03:40 PM   #2
NOS88
Senior Member
 
NOS88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montgomery County, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 6,490
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That is just plain ole scary. Glad you survived it. I'd contact Mavic to see what they have to say about it. Maybe they can shed some light on what happened. Tell your wife you're still much more likely to be killed at home than cycling... although I'd anticipate some skeptiscism from my wife if I had to tell her the same thing. In terms of the other wheels, that might be the ticket to get Mavic to take some action. Tell them you want to know if the wheels are safe. Not sure how they might respond, but it would be worth finding out.
__________________
A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. - S. Wright
Favorite rides in the stable: Indy Fab CJ Ti - Colnago MXL - S-Works Roubaix - Habanero Team Issue - Jamis Eclipse carbon/831

Last edited by NOS88; 06-07-06 at 03:14 PM.
NOS88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-06, 03:44 PM   #3
stonecrd
OnTheRoad or AtTheBeach
 
stonecrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Weston, FL
Bikes: Ridley Noah RS, Scott CR1 Pro
Posts: 2,170
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow, that is pretty scary stuff, good thing that you didn't get hurt badly.
stonecrd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-06, 03:46 PM   #4
Dockside97
Member
 
Dockside97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Manahawkin, NJ
Bikes:
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Boy, that is kind of scary. I'm new to biking and it really bothers me when I see something like this. When I was in St. Petersburg, Fl. this passed winter it was reported in the St. Pete Times that an experienced biker had a fatal accident on his brand new cannondale. He bought the bike from a woman in Germany I believe it was and paid $3,000. The bike was worth $5,000. The woman shipped it in a sealed carton the way it came from the factory. He brought the bike to his local LBS to assemble it. He brought it back several times complaining that it didn't feel right or was making a noise, I forget which. Anyway, he was riding with his bicycle club on the Pinnelas Trail which is a 36 mi. bicycle path when the witnesses said they heard a cracking sound just before the fork broke propelling the rider over the bars and killing him. The fellow was 62 years old.

It just makes you wonder how safe these new bicycles are today.

Glad you're okay but you have to get to the bottom of what happened.
Dockside97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-06, 03:51 PM   #5
backinthesaddle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Alameda, CA, an island city on the edge of San Francisco Bay
Bikes:
Posts: 666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
that's a scary break, glad you're all right!!!

I'm also concerned now, because I'm running Mavic Open Pro, is that what you have?
backinthesaddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-06, 03:52 PM   #6
nedgoudy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Glendora, CA USA
Bikes: Easy Racers EZ-1 and Lightning Thunderbolt Recumbent Bikes
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Take the secure thought
that the chances of that
ever happening again are
remote and get on another
bike tomorrow and do 50 miles.

I broke a hip when my EZ-1 went
down at mile 26 of the Acura Bike
Marathon Ride in LA in 2002
and could have quit, but 2 weeks after
I got off a walker I did 85 miles on
a very warm day.

Buy a new bike and forget the
incident. And ride man... ride!
nedgoudy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-06, 04:24 PM   #7
crtreedude 
Third World Layabout
 
crtreedude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Costa Rica
Bikes: Cannondale F900 and Tandem
Posts: 3,075
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
A lack of excercise and being fat is the second leading cause of death in the USA - bike accidents don't even get close.

Of course, you might not want to listen to me - I want to go bike riding and thunder is just a rumbling around. Since we are in the mountains, I think I better not...
crtreedude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-06, 04:25 PM   #8
DnvrFox
Banned.
 
DnvrFox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Bikes:
Posts: 20,916
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
WOW - I am glad you are OK.

I would not want to go on a similar wheel without finding the cause of this failure!

Last edited by DnvrFox; 06-05-06 at 04:50 PM.
DnvrFox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-06, 04:44 PM   #9
Digital Gee
I need more cowbell.
 
Digital Gee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Reno, Nevada
Bikes: 2015 Specialized Sirrus Elite, 2012 Masi Evoluzione
Posts: 8,111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Scary stuff, Far. Keep us in the loop -- let us know what happens. Wow. So glad you're OKAY!
__________________
2015 Sirrus Elite
2012 Masi Evoluzione

Proud member of the original Club Tombay
Digital Gee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-06, 05:05 PM   #10
cyclintom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 2,535
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
If I was going to guess I'd say that you had a crack develop in the V between two spoke nipples. I would expect that if this was the case there would be some darkening of part of the long failure points.

Failures like this should have been somewhat failsafe - for instance, how did the seatpost break? The back wheel should have locked up and the bike stopped in a very short distance with perhaps a very high heartrate on your part but not a fall. I would say that the failure of the seatpost was at least as significant as the failure of the rim.

This sort of failure occurs OCCASSIONALLY. Inspections should be part of everyone's usual process of getting ready to ride. It only takes a minute to go over your entire bike looking for that sort of thing.

I have never seen a wheel fail like that before but I have seen a lot of cracks in rims. The rim alloys have to be very strong to withstand the spoke tension. They are also made to be as light as possible. This implies that the alloys are as strong as they can be and such alloys generally lack ductility and so have fracture failures as their most prominent fault. But prominent isn't really accurate since it is rare at best.

What I believe happened is that your rims weren't wide enough for the 37 mm tire. That placed the spreading forces of the tire perpendicular to the sidewall. The problem was with your selection of rims and not the rim itself.
cyclintom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-06, 05:09 PM   #11
fthomas 
Fred E Fenders
 
fthomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Again! Philippines & S. California
Bikes: Jamis Aurora Elite
Posts: 1,454
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Glad you are alright! That looks like quite a dynamic failure. Quite a few years ago I had a new Cannondale ST1000 touring bike and was pedaling along with no problems, no pot holes etc. and the rear wheel collapsed. Not as violent as your experience, but it bent the frame and really upset me. Cannondale and the LBS were at a loss. I got a new bike and wheel.

I vote for getting back in the saddle. In Sept '05 I crashed my mountain bike and impaled myself on the bar end: Shattered Sternum, Giant Hematoma now scar tissue and a 1" x 3" tear into my abdominal cavity - hernia. Will be having surgery to fix it and get mesh reinforcement.

Within a month I was back on my bike wearing padding, but riding. I'm still riding and will continue.
fthomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-06, 05:18 PM   #12
turtleguy54
Senior Member
 
turtleguy54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lubbock, Tx
Bikes: 1971 Motobecane Grand Record (frame), 1983 Vitus 979 (Bought new and built up. My son still rides it), 1978 Raliegh Roadster (complete but totally torn down right now. 28" wheels, Surly Cross Check ( my love. What a bike)
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That is just awesome! I can't imagine what you thought when this happened. I saved the photo.
Give me a location of the incident. I am taking my two sons from my first marriage to Baton Rouge (my birthplace) in August to meet the relatives, still living, they have not seen since they were toddlers. I will show them the picture and the site along with less impressive Civil War stuff.

Lesaiz le bon ton roulet!

Rick
turtleguy54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-06, 05:24 PM   #13
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ascending or Descending the NH Mountains NW of Concord!
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)
Posts: 10,261
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Far H,

+++++ you have my prayers that you are ok and survived unscathed on this rim. I have an engineer in my church who investigates such things as an expert witness. I sent him the link to the Mechanics post so he could look at the pictures. I'll let you know what he thinks.
__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime!

Visit my websites:
FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com
pastorbobnlnh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-06, 05:26 PM   #14
dagna
Senior Member
 
dagna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 690
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
...it was reported in the St. Pete Times that an experienced biker had a fatal accident on his brand new cannondale. He bought the bike from a woman in Germany I believe it was and paid $3,000. .
Actually, it was a Trek Madone (not sure of the exact Madone model) and he bought it from a lady in Hawaii via eBay--at least, that's what I read. The rest was pretty much as I read it, including the multiple trips to the LBS to try to fix the noise.

Trek recently sent out a bunch of literature on how to check your carbon for cracks, and about how their low-cost replacement program for damaged carbon items works. I've always wondered it all this was a direct reaction to that accident and the resulting lawsuit

So glad you are okay!
Dagna
dagna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-06, 05:46 PM   #15
LilSprocket
Wheee
 
LilSprocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: S. FL
Bikes: Schwinn Rocket 88 phase 1/ Surly 1x1/Cannondale R700 WSD 650c
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yeesh... Glad you're here to tell the tale...

as for your wife... just living is dangerous...

you can go out and be a part of life or
you can hole up inside and wait for danger to find you...
and don't think it won't

be safe, be cautious, be considerate, be careful... be healthy and happy... have fun
__________________
If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.
http://www.myspace.com/qwtrailbuilders
rip sydney
LilSprocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-06, 09:58 PM   #16
roccobike
Bike Junkie
 
roccobike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: South of Raleigh, North of New Hill, East of Harris Lake, NC
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Speialized Roubaix, Giant OCR-C, Specialized Stumpjumper FSR, Stumpjumper Comp, 88 & 92Nishiki Ariel, 01 Bianchi Campione, 87 Centurion Ironman, 92 Paramount
Posts: 9,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Glad you're OK FarHorizon
__________________
Roccobike BF Official Thread Terminator
roccobike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-06, 10:16 PM   #17
slvoid
2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM
 
slvoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: NYC
Bikes: 04' Specialized Hardrock Sport, 03' Giant OCR2 (SOLD!), 04' Litespeed Firenze, 04' Giant OCR Touring, 07' Specialized Langster Comp
Posts: 15,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Be glad you don't live in NYC, otherwise you'd most likely be dead right now. *Shudder* makes me think about my stem, handle bars, and wheels...
slvoid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-06, 10:20 PM   #18
cheeseflavor
Get A Life - Get A Bike
 
cheeseflavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Minnesota, You Betcha!
Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Bianchi San Jose, '87 Schwinn Super Sport
Posts: 1,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarHorizon
See the following thread in the mechanics forum:
Holy crap, Far! That is just TOO scary for words! Thank god you weren't seriously hurt. I cannot imagine the fright that must have given you.

Sheesh!

Steve
__________________
cheeseflavor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-06, 01:15 AM   #19
FarHorizon
Senior Curmudgeon
Thread Starter
 
FarHorizon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Directly above the center of the earth
Bikes: Varies by day
Posts: 3,856
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Thanks for all the consolation. After reflection, I'm about to conclude that this happened because of my own stupidity. Here's my best guess:

Catastrophic Wheel Failure Analysis!

Now all I have to do is convince my wife...
FarHorizon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-06, 04:03 AM   #20
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ascending or Descending the NH Mountains NW of Concord!
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)
Posts: 10,261
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
FH,

Pretty rational explanation--- but I agree with several of the posters--- a tire should fail (or self dismount) if it is not the correct size. A rim should always be a stronger link than a tire in the wheel system. If it had seperated at the joint due to a blowout in that exact location, then maybe. But the rim should not fail. Don't let Mavic off this easy.

Last year after I restored my '79 Traveler, I bought new Michelins marked 27 X 1 & 1/4 for the Araya steel rims I used to run. I was amazed when they came how much bigger they were than the original Schwinn Puff tires. They just barely cleared the chainstays (less than 1/8 inch on either side). About 10 days into using them with less than 100 miles, I checked the pressure and went for a ride. They were about 5 psi over the recommended amount at 80 psi. I pedaled my 260 lbs. about 7 miles and as I was downshifting to go up a long hill, the rear blewout- KABAM! The force ripped the wire bead out of the tire for about 10 inches. The rear rim was also pushed out of alignment in the dropouts and twisted away from the blowout. The tires, though marked the correct size, were oversized for those rims.
__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime!

Visit my websites:
FreeWheelSpa.com orpastorbobnlnh.com
pastorbobnlnh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-06, 08:08 AM   #21
Monoborracho
Senior Member
 
Monoborracho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Deep In The Heart
Bikes: Seven Ti Tandem, Blue T12 tri bike, 92 Paramount, 93 Schwinn Mesa MTB, Soma Saga
Posts: 2,614
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Far Horizon....you may be considering this anyway, but if you have any question I would recommend

1) take the wheel to a reputable metallurgical analysis firm to determine the metallurgical condition and quality. There should be at least one good firm down there in the refinery country. If not, try the Lake Charles/Beaumont area.

2) afterwards, get he manufacturer involved. I'm certain they would want to know and render an opinion on the failure. This isn't the kind of stuff they want going around the forums.

Thank goodness it was the rear and not the front.
Monoborracho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-06, 08:10 AM   #22
cyclintom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 2,535
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarHorizon
Thanks for all the consolation. After reflection, I'm about to conclude that this happened because of my own stupidity. Here's my best guess:

Catastrophic Wheel Failure Analysis!

Now all I have to do is convince my wife...
My GUESS is that you are correct about the cause of failure. However, increased inflation would have only made it worse and not better.

Here's why - If you install the CORRECT size tire on a rim the inflation forces and the subsequent road shocks occur in plane with the rim and in an outward direction.

If the tire is too wide for the rim the sidewalls are trying to be pressed apart by tire pressures and road shocks. Since rims are made as light as possible you can see that they simply cannot be stressed for spreading forces.

You'll need wider rims if you intend to use 37 mm tires.
cyclintom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-06, 08:41 AM   #23
will dehne
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: rockford, il
Bikes: Trek 7700, C'dale R2000
Posts: 2,646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
FH:
You know that we are all celebrating that you did not get hurt.

Here is what I would do:
Go to Mavic and tell them that such a failure is NOT acceptable. Demand that they make an INDEPENDENT laboratory analysis to be given to you. If they do not do that, tell them that you will do it and will go after them for consequential damages.
Suggest they got lucky that you did not get hurt and they should investigate and come up with a solution so this does not happen again.
In defense of Mavic: They may determine that your weight was excessive or that you have the wrong tires on these wheels. If that is the case, OK, lesson learned.
I would have a lawyer advising me but not confront Mavic yet with that lawyer.

I have experience with such things in my Automation business. This is the procedure we follow, always.
will dehne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-06, 08:50 AM   #24
alanbikehouston
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 5,250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Glad you were not seriously hurt. Because we enjoy riding out bikes, we sometimes forget they are fairly complex machines, with lots of ways to go wrong.

Fred DeLong, in his '70's classic on bikes, did not underestimate how many things can go wrong on a bike. He included in his book a "checklist" for inspecting a bike that covered several pages. It was a checklist that he felt owners should work through on a regular basis. He had a shorter checklist for a daily bike inspection.

If you put a 37mm tire on a rim that was designed for 25mm tires or 28mm tires, that could put extra stress on the rims. If the bike was designed for 23mm tires and 25mm tires, as many current road bikes are, using 37mm tires would greatly reduce the clearance between the fork and the front tire and between the rear tire and the chainstays. If a rock, or other road debris wedges between the fork and tire, or chainstay and tire, something is going to fail. If the "wedge" is against a carbon fork, that fork may fail. If the "wedge" is against a sturdy chainstay, the rim may give way and fail.

We assume that the bike manufacturers are making unbreakable equipment. THEY are assuming that we carefully read owner's manuals and read the warnings that manufacturer's post on their websites. We are probably over-estimating them, and they are probably over-estimating us.
alanbikehouston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-06, 09:59 AM   #25
Little Darwin
The Improbable Bulk
 
Little Darwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA
Bikes: Many
Posts: 8,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
We assume that the bike manufacturers are making unbreakable equipment. THEY are assuming that we carefully read owner's manuals and read the warnings that manufacturer's post on their websites. We are probably over-estimating them, and they are probably over-estimating us.
I believe the assumption by the manufacturers is that they have placed enough verbage in their manuals to shield themselves from as much liability as possible. They don't care if anyone reads them or not. However, in civil actions, they would claim that they assumed the manuals were read.
__________________
Slow Ride Cyclists of NEPA

People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character.
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Little Darwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:53 AM.