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Old 06-16-06, 07:00 AM   #1
Carusoswi
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New Seat slight defect - Am I Anal?

Hey, all. I purchased a new Fizik Arione Wing Flex saddle at my local LBS last night. It's narrower than the stock Fizik that came with the bike - and I can tell from my first impression (about 10 miles) that I'm going to like the feel/performance of this seat.

Anyhow, the seat was installed by my local LBS (a one-man shop), and I also purchased new tires (Schwalbe Stelvio), a new Topeak trunk, new pads for my disc brakes, and some other odds and ends.

I really like my local LBS guy - he's friendly, knowledgeable, always going that extra step. Last night he noticed how dirty my bike was, so he threw it up on his outside stand, pulled off the wheels, and cleaned the chain, cassette, chain rings, etc.

Anyhow, this morning, as I'm about to get on my bike, I look down at my seat and notice two little bits of the leather right at the tip of the nose that seem to be protruding as I view the seat from above.

Viewed from the front, it is clear that there are two pin sized holes in the leather. If you drew a line between them, it would be horizontal, and the holes are spaced about 1/8" apart. The leather is red at this area, and whatever material is underneath is white - so, of course, they show up clearly.

I hate like heck to have to complain about this to my local LBS, but, I am obviously annoyed about this little flaw. The seat I replaced saw me through 2800 miles without any bruises or tears, and, although I doubt these little pinpricks will develop into larger openings in the leather, it just bothers me that a brand new seat would have these flaws. I don't know if they are factory flaws or if, somehow, this happened during the installation.

I picked this item off one of those wall displays and did not notice any defect at the time, but, then, I didn't inspect it with a fine tooth comb, either.

So, would it be anal of me to return this saddle for exchange?

I'm curious to get a read on what some of you would do in this situation. I've done enough business over the years that I'm certain the LBS guy wouldn't give me a hard time about it, but, the reason I continue doing business with him is because he's one of those good guys, always fair, reasonably priced, and to be relied upon for sound advice concerning all things "bicycle."

Thanks for your thoughts.

Caruso
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Old 06-16-06, 07:14 AM   #2
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General rule that I always try to follow: "If I'm not happy with something, tell the person who can do something about it." In your case that means talking with the LBS owner about it. From what you describe, I would want to keep the relationship a positive one. So, if he is responsive, I'd tell him how much I appreciated it and bring in some donuts, six pack of beer (or something that I know or suspect will be appreciated) to say "thanks again."

In terms of are you being anal? In the minds of many you probably are. But so what? I'm not so sure that being anal is a bad thing in all situations. I know that I absolutely hate doing any repair work on guitars for others or myself that isn't as close to perfect as I can get it. Everytime I see the instrument the first thing that grabs my attention is the flaw I wasn't able to repair. Hence, what should be a nice experience, looking at wood instruments, is lessened by the flaw. If you feel the same way about your bike, that is it has aesthetic value to you, then you're being smart to try and resolve it.
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Old 06-16-06, 08:33 AM   #3
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Yes, you are being very "anal" about this. YOU had several chances to
inspect this seat before you took it home but failed to note this very minor
problem. So to my mind the problem is your's.

You can ask the LBS owner for a "goodwill" adjusment but don't expect the
request to be greeted with a smile. If it were my seat I'd color the defect holes
to make them less noticeable and move on being more careful next time.

This is really pickin' fly ***** out of pepper. Better luck next time,mate.
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Old 06-16-06, 10:08 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tightwad
Yes, you are being very "anal" about this. YOU had several chances to
inspect this seat before you took it home but failed to note this very minor
problem. So to my mind the problem is your's.

You can ask the LBS owner for a "goodwill" adjusment but don't expect the
request to be greeted with a smile. If it were my seat I'd color the defect holes
to make them less noticeable and move on being more careful next time.

This is really pickin' fly ***** out of pepper. Better luck next time,mate.
Whew!!! It'd be better next time if you gave an opinion.

An alternative might be to contact Fizik directly and explain your problem and your concerns, reinterating how much respect you have for your LBS owner, etc. In other words, just like you've expressed here. I've often recieved a fair resolution on problems with products I felt were less than I expected, having gone directly to the manufacturer. Might want to try that.
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Old 06-16-06, 12:01 PM   #5
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The first time you lean the bike up against something or it falls you will probably have a ding on the seat anyway. I, too, would minimize the visible imperfection with a bit of touch up color and ride!
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Old 06-16-06, 03:02 PM   #6
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One thing that really irks me about this forum: You ask a question and all the answers come back lukewarm - you can never really tell what position folks are taking with respect to any problem about which you post.

Actually, the reason I didn't inspect the seat more closely is because it was coming right out of the package. - and I'm not certain I would have picked up this defect even if I did inspect it. I am also not certain that the seat wasn't perfect and got its little ding when he hung the bike over the top of the stand in preparation for changing the brakes/cleaning them.

I hadn't had a chance to get online to check for replies until now - but, in the interim, I did phone my LBS, talk to my guy, explained the problem. Predictably, he told me not to worry about it - that he wasn't available until the middle of next week - that I should go ahead ride and enjoy the saddle - bring it in next week and he'll take a look at it and do whatever is necessary/appropriate.

That's why the guy gets my business whenever I have the need/desire for anything more than $10.00 worth of work or equipment for my bike.

Right now, those two little holes are pestering the @%$ out of me - but, who knows, if I ride it a couple hundred miles this weekend, maybe I'll get used to it. If there is a way to patch it and make it less noticeable, that would be ok, too.

As for leaning it against something, that simply never happens. I have a little piece of Velcro that wraps around the center cross bar, and I either lean that part of my bike against a sign post or tree or whatever, or I lean the back wheel against some vertical surface. The seat is never used as a stand for the bike.

For certain, if the bike fell or I crashed or whatever and put a big mar on the seat, I am just anal and vain enough to go right out and replace the seat (of course, at that point, it would be totally my responsibility).

The suggestion to call the mfr is a good thought, also - but, I'll probably wait until I have a chance to show it to my LBS.

If it is manufacturing related, then, there would be no blood against my LBS whatsoever - and I'm sure he'll know right away if it is a manufacturing defect.

It's funny what we care about sometimes. I tend to worry about keeping things in decent order so that a good cleaning up will bring the appearance back to new or near new - so, a ding in a seat really bothers me. Scratches on the paint (of which there are presently none) really bother me. Riding a bike (new or old) that is dirty doesn't really bother me that much ('cause in my mind, I know I can always just clean it up).

My old Schwinn is all marred and scratched - 'cause it went through a period where I was "over" riding bikes. But my new bike can still look new when it is clean (and I'm back into riding bikes now), so, I guess I'm a little nuts about taking care of it. I'm the same way with cars - keep 'em mechanically tip top, and woe is the man (or woman) who dares dent the sheet metal - but, I might go a month without washing the thing, LOL.

Thanks for the replies. Next time, make sure you all tell me what you really think. For now, I'm off to do some riding - shooting for 250 miles this weekend.

Caruso

Last edited by Carusoswi; 06-16-06 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 06-16-06, 05:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carusoswi
I hadn't had a chance to get online to check for replies until now - but, in the interim, I did phone my LBS, talk to my guy, explained the problem. Predictably, he told me not to worry about it - that he wasn't available until the middle of next week - that I should go ahead ride and enjoy the saddle - bring it in next week and he'll take a look at it and do whatever is necessary/appropriate.
This reminds me of a jury I was on back in the 90's. We went through a 3 week trial, only to have the litigants settle as we were in deliberation. Thanks for nothing, pal.
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Old 06-16-06, 06:16 PM   #8
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If you had your saddle stolen how would you tell whether someone else was riding your stolen saddle or not?
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Old 06-16-06, 06:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carusoswi
One thing that really irks me about this forum: You ask a question and all the answers come back lukewarm - you can never really tell what position folks are taking with respect to any problem about which you post.
OK, no lukewarm - you're a (female sexual component). Do you believe that a couple of microscopic holes probably from a staple when they packaged it somehow degrades the value of the saddle? Somehow you're not concerned that you're riding a bike so filthy that the LBS owner feels the need to clean it for you but a couple of tiny holes are important?

Wow.
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Old 06-16-06, 06:48 PM   #10
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I'm going to make a mental note to myself not to respond to your posts, Caruso. As I recall, you posted something about helmets and took strenuous issue with the folks whose opinion differed from yours. Then you posted something about ear buds and took strenuous issue with the folks whose opinion differed from yours. And unless I'm misunderstanding you, you haven't liked the responses you got on this question either. I can't imagine why you keep posting, since we're obviously a group of knuckleheads to you!
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Old 06-17-06, 07:40 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carusoswi
One thing that really irks me about this forum: You ask a question and all the answers come back lukewarm - you can never really tell what position folks are taking with respect to any problem about which you post.

Next time, make sure you all tell me what you really think. For now, I'm off to do some riding - shooting for 250 miles this weekend.

Caruso
Take the saddle back and beat the hell out the guy with it.

Then burn his shop down.
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Old 06-17-06, 07:55 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Louis
Take the saddle back and beat the hell out the guy with it.

Then burn his shop down.
LOL!

Personally, I think I'd mention it to the owner and see what he says.

Steve
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Old 06-17-06, 09:34 AM   #13
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"Thanks for the replies."

I thought that statement would have made it clear that I certainly took no issue with any of the replies which, obviously were anything but lukewarm. I know that sometimes tone of voice gets lost on a BBS, but, when I complained that the obviously pointed replies didn't clearly define any particular opinion on the subject, I expected my sarcasm to be obvious as well.

If you all took me seriously, I apologize. The post was intended to bring a smile.

As for my participation in the debate about helmets, if you follow all my postings, you will see where, although I still am not convinced that a helmet is going to save my life in a collision, as a result of that debate (and having shared it with my daughter) she and I went out and purchased for me a helmet which I've worn for all my rides for the last three or four weeks. Hopefully, my epitaph is due to be penned sometime far into the future and it will not include a statement exclaiming "and he was right about bike helmets!"

"Thanks for nothing, pal." Big Paulie - as you can see, I read the posts and decided to take the advice of NOS88 - I called my guy and discussed it with him. I also acknowledged in thorough fashion how silly it is that I would worry about two little holes in the seat and not worry so much about cleaning the rest of the bike - those were my words offered in criticism of my own fickleness - I suspect that most of us can find that quality in ourselves, and I readily admit it about myself. I can laugh at my self for worrying about some things and not others - - why would everyone get so uptight about that? I don't get it - but, fortunately, it's not that important.

DG, I think towards the end of another thread, you and I exchanged virtual brews and agreed to call it a good day - I'm slidin' one (a brew, not a day, LOL) your way right now. It's full of foam - catch it or not as you please, but, if you ignore my hospitality, that foam is going to go all over you, LOL -- Oh, and, on another thread, I just ripped you up for posting about coffee/coffee makers on a bike forum - that was in jest, also. Enjoy the suds (can be beer or coffee as you please) -- thanks again to all for the replies - and have a great day (I mean that, seriously!).

Caruso
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Old 06-17-06, 02:42 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Carusoswi
Big Paulie - as you can see, I read the posts and decided to take the advice of NOS88 - I called my guy and discussed it with him.
That's not how you presented yourself. You stated that you posed the question, but called the shop before you came back and read the anwsers.

You stated: "I hadn't had a chance to get online to check for replies until now - but, in the interim, I did phone my LBS, talk to my guy, explained the problem."

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Old 06-17-06, 04:04 PM   #15
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Ok, Caruso,

(hic)

Thanks for the brew. Maybe you need to put more emoticons in your posts!
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Old 08-12-06, 11:56 AM   #16
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Take it back

It's defective. Take it back unless you make a habit of spending your money on defective items. If the bike shop owner gets mad then that tells you a little about him.
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Old 08-13-06, 04:44 AM   #17
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Hello, Hask12. Actually, I'm over that issue, now. Since starting this thread, I was right hooked by a lady with no clue that bikes move or that, in most situations, they have the right of way over cars.

Now that I'm satisfied that those two little holes aren't going to grow or cause the covering on the saddle to otherwise fail prematurely, I just ride it.

Had I pressed the issue, I'm sure my local LBS would have taken the saddle for exchange.

Thanks for the reply.

Caruso
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