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  1. #1
    Senior Member NOS88's Avatar
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    Clipped a jogger today

    Out for a short recovery ride this morning after several days recovering from a nasty virus. Thought I'd use the local bike path since I wasn't 100% yet and didn't want to deal with cars. As I was approaching a young woman from behind, I called out, "Passing on your left". She kept moving straight ahead, but just as I started to swing around her, she turns left right into me. I hit her pretty good on the arm and shoulder. Of course she was wearing "ear buds" and listening to music. I stopped; she was OK for the most part, but she's going to have some nasty bruises tomorrow. Glad she wasn't just a bit quicker, or I would have hit her full on.
    Last edited by NOS88; 07-02-06 at 12:13 PM.
    A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. - S. Wright
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    When I started cycling back in '96, I used to ride along the South Bay MUP in Los Agneles. I used to breath a sigh of relief when I got off the street and onto the "safety" of the bike path. After about a year, it was the other way around!

    Glad she was OK for the most part...

  3. #3
    Senior Curmudgeon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Paulie
    ...I used to breath a sigh of relief when I got off the street and onto the "safety" of the bike path. After about a year, it was the other way around!
    +1

  4. #4
    Senior Member edp773's Avatar
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    You always need to be wary of others on the trail. I like the people who step to the left and say "What" or "Huh" when you shout that you are passing.

    Glad to hear no one was seriously hurt!
    Born Again Bicyclist! I found my Faith.

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    Nos88, what path were you on? Just curious.
    I have come to the conclusion after having warned many a jogger (or walker) that our voices must not carry forward very well when we are riding. It seems most never seem to understand.

    Of course, if she was listening to music, if she heard you at all, she may not have even paid attention to you.

    Glad you're ok.

    I make a point to leave plenty of space when passing walkers/joggers on MUP's.

    If I can't pass with at least the equivalent of four of their strides between us, I slow down almost to their speed.

    Glad both you and she are ok.

    Caruso

  6. #6
    Senior Member Denny Koll's Avatar
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    I hope the jogger learned something. A couple of years ago a cyclist died here from a collsion with a runner on the local trail. The runner was part of a college cross country team and made an abrupt turn and caused a collision. The cyclist who apparently always wore a helmet for some reason was not wearing one that day...and she did not call out as she was passing...died from her injuries. Pere Marquette trail Midland MI.

  7. #7
    Geezer Member Grampy™'s Avatar
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    If she was under 30 she is worth 20 points.
    Carpe who?

  8. #8
    Get A Life - Get A Bike cheeseflavor's Avatar
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    MUPs are scary, no doubt about it.

    Well, the MUPs aren't, it's the people that use them that are scary

    Steve

  9. #9
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    Get a Bell!!!!!! Then when they still ignore you- You can say "I did ring my bell". Gave up on the bell many years ago- They do not work where I live. On the Tandem we have a horn- That doesn't work either.

    Some people just like bruises and Tyre marks.
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    This issue here is context.

    Twice in the ten years I've been cycling I've had cyclists come up behind me on public sidewalks. One said "on your left." The other rang a bell. Both times I completely blanked out, and had no idea what was happening behind me. Neither time resulted in a collision, but they easily could have. On the other hand, many times I've had a cyclist come up behind be on a MUP when I'm walking or riding, and understood instantly what was being communicated to me.

    The difference was that when I was walking on a sidewalk, where cyclists are not entitled, I had no subconsicous expectation of a cyclist coming up behind me. So I couldn't process in the information. On the path I was expecting it, so it was easy to understand.

    What we all experience on a MUP or trail while cycling are people who are in that mindset...not expecting a cylist to come up behind them, when of course they should. No horn, bell, or shout out will shake them out of their lack of awareness at that moment.

  11. #11
    cs1
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    Senior Member cs1's Avatar
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    I really don't want to say the average person is a complete and total DUMB *SS but, I can't help but wonder. It isn't just on the bike path either.

    Tim
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  12. #12
    loves rail-trails bikingbets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Paulie
    This issue here is context.



    The difference was that when I was walking on a sidewalk, where cyclists are not entitled, I had no subconsicous expectation of a cyclist coming up behind me. So I couldn't process in the information. On the path I was expecting it, so it was easy to understand.
    Do people who play golf duck when someone yells "FORE" on the sidewalk?

    Just asking.
    Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Koll
    I hope the jogger learned something.
    The jogger probably learned that the path can be a dangerous place - I'm not certain what else she is supposed to learn. IMO, we as cyclists are charged with the responsibility to avoid striking anything on the path in front of us. We're all friends here, and I'm not looking to beat on NOS88, but, in all honesty, this accident is his fault, not the jogger's.

    We may be annoyed with the predominance of personal listening devices, but, they exist and are in wide use by joggers. As we demand our right of way on the road, pedestrians have absolute right of way on a path, period.

    Are we advocating that the pedestrian should have checked behind her for a cyclist before making changing her place on the path? I would disagree. It might be prudent of her to check, but she is not required.

    It is our responsiblity to pass pedestrians with whatever degree of caution required to do so safely - even if that means dismounting and walking the bike around her.

    Caruso

  14. #14
    Senior Member DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Fortunately we have many miles of MUPS where there are very few, if any, peds, and most of our peds are quite well trained.

    Where there are peds, I find that "On your left" is confusiing to many. I either use my bell or shout "PASSING" or both. I then will look for some sort of physical response on the part of the ped/jogger/other bike rider. The very best trained will give me a wave of their fingers or something similar. Others will move about 6 inches to the right. About 75% say "Thank you" as I go by.

    If I see no physical response at all, I slow WAY down to their speed, and say, when I am close behind them, "Good Morning, are you having a great day?" or something similar.

    I strongly believe that the more positive encounters they have with bicyclists, the easier it will be for the next bicycler. As a ped, I hate when a bicycler does a "silent" passing. Makes me jump every time.

    Our small town of about 40,000 folks is starting a "Trail Ranger" program for the claimed 75 miles of MUPS we have within our town borders (I must have missed a trail or two somewhere). The organizational meeting will be on July 19th. As my wife and I are always on the trail system anyway, and as we frequently talk to folks and assist if necessary, it just seems natural to go to the meeting and find out more. Each person will get a course in basic bicycle maintenance, etc., and will carry some sort of tool kit and pump.

    Perhaps we will get to wear a "Trail Ranger" T-shirt?

    BTW, when passing a kid, you can absolutely be guaranteed that whatever noise or warning you might make, the kid will look over his left shoulder and will move to the left, walking or bicycling. 100%.

    My biggest peeve? The "Chain of Death." Someone walking on one side of the trail, with a dog on the other side and a chain or cable stretched across the path!

    I agree with Carusowi. Bicyclists are absolutely responsible for the safety of peds. I have, on a number of occasions, dismounted or slowed to about 2 mph. Think of it as interval training.
    Last edited by DnvrFox; 07-02-06 at 06:48 AM.

  15. #15
    train safe buelito's Avatar
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    iPods are the worst invention when it comes to MUP users... they make the user of those items completely oblivious. When combined with a rollerblader they are even worse, as they sway across 75% of the trail... I ride a MUP daily (commute) and use a bell, say "Passing on your left" and good morning/evening as I go by. I agree that many respond positively when you speak nicely to them...

    train (and ride!) safe-

  16. #16
    Senior Curmudgeon
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikingbets
    Do people who play golf duck when someone yells "FORE" on the sidewalk?
    Context it is! Most folks, I'd bet, don't have a clue what "on your left" means. The few that do sometimes don't respond because they've not heard that in the context of a multi-user path (MUP). For this reason, I usually call out "Bicycle on your left." That phrase includes the context of the message.

    When I use that phrase, I get "desired responses" far more frequently than when I just say "on your left." Of course, when the pedestrian has music going, there is no hope anyway - in those cases, I speed up, hoping to minimize the amount of time that it takes me to get past and out of the danger zone.

  17. #17
    Geezer Member Grampy™'s Avatar
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    When I come up behind walkers I also think "On yur Left" is confusing, especially to people that may be on the trail for th first time or not very often. The best rule for me is to slow down, announce, "coming up behind you", and let them figure out which way to move.... If the have a headst or ear buds, ya just gotta cross your fingers and hope the keep their line and buzz past.
    Carpe who?

  18. #18
    I need more cowbell. Digital Gee's Avatar
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    My new 32mm tires have helped out here. I'm much more willing, if necessary, to turn off the path onto the grass to pass a pedestrian than I was with the 23s. I agree with the post about the dogs on those long elastic leashes -- all too often they stretch across the whole path, and sometimes I don't even see them (or the dog) until the last second. People should learn to train their damn dog to heal!

    But anyway...I should move the $3 bell from my cruiser to my Giant. Be interesting to see what responses i get on MUPs.
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  19. #19
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carusoswi
    I have come to the conclusion after having warned many a jogger (or walker) that our voices must not carry forward very well when we are riding. It seems most never seem to understand.
    Given that many bicyclists have reported the same issue over and over (joggers unaware of the presence of bicyclists or not reponding as desired to the bicyclists shouted warning (often given in biker lingo)), I would think most smart bicyclists should not be surprised bywrong way responses from pedestrians. In addition, IMO, smart cyclists would cease expecting anyone else to respond correctly to the bicycling specific command of "on your left", in fact, they wouldn't waste their breath with what amounts to non communicative noise to non afficianadoes on an MUP or on the street

    Sort of like being surprised by a child running into the street after a rolling ball crosses the bicyclists path. Shouldn't catch a wary cyclist by surprise.
    Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 07-02-06 at 10:43 AM.

  20. #20
    Senior Member NOS88's Avatar
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    Just a few points of clarification.

    1. There were many cyclist on the path yesterday. Some of whom I saw pass the woman I clipped 30 seconds before I did. She knew there were cyclist and that she should be on the right; which she was.

    2. I called "PASSING on your left." And, it was loud enough that other runners and riders had heard me plenty well enough; many from 15 to 25 yards ahead.

    3. She was wearing ear buds with an MP3 player, and said after the brush that she didn't hear me.

    4. She also said that she was making a 180 degree turn around on the path, seeing she had reached her half-way point on an out and back run. She never looked to see if such a move was safe.

    5. I had slowed to almost a crawl, which is why she was only clipped by me and not seriously injured.

    So, I'm not likely to feel a great deal of responsibility for her bruises today. Personally, I think she's lucky to be alive. And, while I don't mean to sound callous, it just seems to me that she must carry a fair amount of responsibility for: 1) not being able to hear warnings; when given, and 2) cutting across the full width of the path without looking first. In terms of the logic that I "dismount and walk the bike around her", I must confess that I'm not quite sure how one walks a bike around someone who is running. That logic eludes me completely.
    Last edited by NOS88; 07-02-06 at 03:42 PM.
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  21. #21
    Senior Curmudgeon
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOS88
    ...it just seems to me that she must carry a fair amount of responsibility for: 1) not being able to hear warnings; when given, and 2) cutting across the full width of the path without looking first.
    Hi NOS88!

    Given those facts, I'd have to agree that she was fully liable in this incident. A lawer I aint, but I know fair when I read it. In any case, beware of not only squirrels but also squirrel-brained pedestrians and better luck next time.

  22. #22
    Senior Member DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Gee
    People should learn to train their damn dog to heal!
    Yes, it would save on veterinary bills!

  23. #23
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DnvrFox
    Yes, it would save on veterinary bills!

  24. #24
    I need more cowbell. Digital Gee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DnvrFox
    Yes, it would save on veterinary bills!
    GRrrrrrrrrrrr.............
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  25. #25
    Senior Member DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Gee
    GRrrrrrrrrrrr.............
    Don't be a heel now!

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