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Old 07-09-06, 04:26 PM   #1
Grampy™
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Lawyer tabs.....keep 'em or filed yours off?

For those of you that don't know, they are those little bits of metal that make it difficult to take your front wheel off.

I got fed up with mine on the Bianchi and the wife's LeMond and filed 'em off. It sure makes it nicer putting bikes up on my roof rack. It took about 2 minutes per bike. My Airborne didn't have any for some reason. (Which prompted me to do the other 2)
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Old 07-09-06, 05:31 PM   #2
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+1 ....... filed off !
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Old 07-09-06, 05:43 PM   #3
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On Easter weekend, I rode some long climbs and speedy descents (up to 44 MPH). On these long downhill runs, there were some pipe cattle guards consisting of about 12 2" pipes crossing the road. The speed was thrilling and we never thought about slowing down for the guards. Our group had to stop for traffic after about 20 miles and as we were stopped, I looked down at my front wheel and saw that the quick release was loose - put a chill right through my body.
The only thing I can figure is that when I was preparing the bike before the ride, I installed the wheel and forgot to tighten the quick release. This is the first and only time that I have forgotten this VERY IMPORTANT stage of readying the bike.
I might owe my life to the "lawyer bumps " (and the Good Lord) for holding the front wheel on while going over the cattle guards at speed.
In the past, I have done my share of complaining about the inconvience but, nevermore. Besides, it only takes seconds more to unscrew the axle nut enough to clear the bumps.
Score one for the bumps!
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Old 07-09-06, 05:46 PM   #4
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[QUOTE=jaws]I might owe my life to the "lawyer bumps " (and the Good Lord) for holding the front wheel on while going over the cattle guards at speed.
In the past, I have done my share of complaining about the inconvience but, nevermore. Besides, it QUOTE]

Something similar happened to me. I'm keepin' em.
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Old 07-09-06, 06:04 PM   #5
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I keep 'em for sure.......but I don't have to take the wheels off that often. I just roll the bikes into my van for traveling.
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Old 07-09-06, 06:11 PM   #6
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I keep them on. They aren't that much of a bother.

I also have my wheel reflectors on. I figure that if I am in an accident at night and don't have the "required" reflectors my potential search for damages against the potential plaintiff who may be at fault goes out the window.

What are you going to do if and when you sell the bike? Seems to me like a potential lawsuit against yourself in the event of an accident (as described above) by the buyer.

(I have been through a couple of lawsuits. Let me assure you that NO stone is unturned during the discovery process. None.)
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Old 07-09-06, 06:17 PM   #7
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The Bridgestone and the Fuji don't have them. The tandem and MTB have them and I hate them. I plan to file them off, but never seem to get a round tuit.
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Old 07-09-06, 06:25 PM   #8
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Can't imagine wasting my time taking them off. They've never been a problem for me.
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Old 07-09-06, 06:57 PM   #9
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Coupla' things here:

1, You should make sure the QR tension is correct every time you mount the wheel. Having to adjust the nut will force you to do this.

2, If you intentionally disable a factory installed safety device, be prepared to take full, personal responsibility for doing so.

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Old 07-09-06, 07:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grampy?
For those of you that don't know, they are those little bits of metal that make it difficult to take your front wheel off.

I got fed up with mine on the Bianchi and the wife's LeMond and filed 'em off. It sure makes it nicer putting bikes up on my roof rack. It took about 2 minutes per bike. My Airborne didn't have any for some reason. (Which prompted me to do the other 2)
I cannot imagine loosing my front wheel. I hope we do not loose you.
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Old 07-09-06, 07:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will dehne
I cannot imagine loosing my front wheel. I hope we do not loose you.
I can't imagine losing my front wheel either, that is why I got rid of the lawyer tabs. Believe me I would never be caught in a position where I would have to rely on lawyer tabs.
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Old 07-09-06, 07:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaws
The only thing I can figure is that when I was preparing the bike before the ride, I installed the wheel and forgot to tighten the quick release. This is the first and only time that I have forgotten this VERY IMPORTANT stage of readying the bike.
I might owe my life to the "lawyer bumps " (and the Good Lord) for holding the front wheel on while going over the cattle guards at speed.
In the past, I have done my share of complaining about the inconvience but, nevermore. Besides, it only takes seconds more to unscrew the axle nut enough to clear the bumps.
Score one for the bumps!
But if you had filed off the lawyer tabs, you wouldn't have to tighten down the QR because you wouldn't have had to loosen them in the first place to clear the tabs! The tabs force you to add one extra step (tightening the QR), and forgetting this step could lead to a loose front wheel.

Man, don't get me started on those &^(&%^^$ tabs! None of my forks have 'em. The first thang I do when I bring home a new bike frame or fork is to file off those stupid tabs. Then all the front wheel QR's are adjusted for the front dropout and things go very smoothly. If I puncture a front in a criterium, I'm not wasting time adjusting my front QR when I come in for a wheel change.

I really hate those tabs. It's like a committee of non-cyclists said, "we know what's best for you" and made up a ridiculous requirement to fix something that didn't need fixing. Lawyer tabs are symptomatic of a society bent on litigation that substitutes regulation of equipment for personal responsibility! Grrrr....

- L.
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Old 07-09-06, 08:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhbernhardt
...............Lawyer tabs are symptomatic of a society bent on litigation that substitutes regulation of equipment for personal responsibility! Grrrr....

- L.
AMEN !
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Old 07-09-06, 08:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grampy?
I can't imagine losing my front wheel either, that is why I got rid of the lawyer tabs. Believe me I would never be caught in a position where I would have to rely on lawyer tabs.
I am not serious with this. My spelling checker accepts "loosing" as well as "losing". So this Immigrant is confused.

BTW, I had one event where a poorly designed Tie-Rod cam-lock backed off. The lawyer tabs saved my a**. I replaced that Tie-Rod with an OEM Tie-Rod. The culprit Tie-Rod was from a trainer.
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Old 07-09-06, 08:48 PM   #15
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"Lawyer tabs" is a convenient name the industry has put on those tabs, but actually they are the secondary retention system for the front wheel. Would you take the safety off of your pistol? That's an exaggeration for sure, but same principle.

So, when you take them off you remove part of the safety features built into your bike.

And, as Dnvrfox points out, no stone is unturned in a discovery process. For that reason I make certain to have the required reflection equipment on every bike I own, daylight rides or not. If its not street legal and I get nipped.....the fulcrum measuring blame starts to slide toward me.

Like drafting too close,riding in a crowd, or buying stocks based on a "tip", its a risk/reward thing. Is the "risk" of losing a wheel, or having your damages suit mitigated by their removal, worth the "reward" of saving a minute or two with the wheel?

"...........and then the wheels came off"

Last edited by Monoborracho; 07-09-06 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 07-09-06, 09:20 PM   #16
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Admittedly, the tabs are a (minor) pain. I sometimes have a vision of myself doing a face plant on the road surface on our favorite fast downhill...in this unwanted fantasy that sometimes comes in mid-descent [please see jppe's current thread "Horrible Accident"] my fork snaps, a sudden gust of wind, I hit some sand...or maybe I hit a bump and my unsecured wheel parts from my drop-outs.

While we can't live always in reaction to fears, it seems unwise to ignore little precautions. This from the guy who drove 125 miles for a ride with his daughter and forgot something as big as his wheel. Having a loose quick release seems easy enough-- at least for me.....hell, I can't remember to zip my saddle bag half the time and have lost my phone more than once.

I'll leave those darn tabs on I'm thinking.
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Old 07-09-06, 09:56 PM   #17
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I'm just glad that the bike I ride most came without the lawyer lips. They are a real pain when you transport bikes on fork mount carriers. Without them, you just open the quick release, pull the wheel out to remove it and then put the wheel in and close the quick release. On bikes that do have the lips, the added steps of loosening and tightening the nuts takes "quick" out of the release.
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Old 07-09-06, 09:59 PM   #18
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Okay, I give up. What the (*&^(& are lawyer tabs?
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Old 07-09-06, 10:28 PM   #19
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They're the new seat belts. Back in '58 folks used to cut them off.... too inconvenient.

D
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Old 07-10-06, 12:36 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Gee
Okay, I give up. What the (*&^(& are lawyer tabs?

This from Sheldon Brown's bicycle glossary:

Lawyer Lips, Lawyer Tabs

Because some bicycle users are competent enough to remove their front wheels but not competent enough to secure them properly when they reinstall them, virtually all new bike purchasers have been deprived of the handy function of quick-release front wheels.
This has been done by encumbering fork ends with extra hardware, ridges or lumps that keep the wheel sort-of attached even if it has been installed by someone who doesn't know what he or she is doing. Unfortunately, this means that the quick-release mechanism must be re-adjusted each time it is used, seriously slowing down the operation.

Since this extra stuff was installed as a defense against frivolous lawsuits by ambulance-chasing shysters, the extra bumps are sometimes known as "lawyer lips" or "lawyer tabs."

As "lawyer lips" have become the norm, they have gradually become more important than they originally were, for two reasons:


The prevalence of these secondary rentention systems in front, and vertical dropouts in the rear has caused the proliferation of inferior skewer designs that are cheaper to manufacture, but much less secure than traditional skewers.
See my Article on Quick Release Skewers.


The introduction of disc brakes has caused increased vulnerability of the front axle and skewer, due to the disc brake applying an ejection force that tends to pull the axle out of the fork.
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Old 07-10-06, 12:41 AM   #21
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Safety devices are there for safety. For safety reasons- I keep them.
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Old 07-10-06, 04:10 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grampy™
For those of you that don't know, they are those little bits of metal that make it difficult to take your front wheel off.

I got fed up with mine on the Bianchi and the wife's LeMond and filed 'em off. It sure makes it nicer putting bikes up on my roof rack. It took about 2 minutes per bike. My Airborne didn't have any for some reason. (Which prompted me to do the other 2)
No Darwin or Organ Donor comments warranted by the OP's decision? All goes to show the influence of the Conventional Cycling Wisdom.
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Old 07-10-06, 05:13 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhbernhardt
Lawyer tabs are symptomatic of a society bent on litigation that substitutes regulation of equipment for personal responsibility!
This is precisely why I removed the Lawyer Belts and Lawyer Bags from my car. Now I can truly express myself without being strong-armed by some regulatory manifestation of our litigious society.

Last edited by MiRider; 07-10-06 at 05:19 AM.
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Old 07-10-06, 05:20 AM   #24
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This is precisely why I removed the Lawyer Belts and Lawyer Bags from my car. Now I can truly express myself without being strong-armed by some regulatory manifestation of our litigious society.
Yes, and I took the headlights and brake lights (which are mandated by federal and state laws) off of my car. Man, I hate those regulations!

Next thing, I want to get rid of those federally required brakes. Then comes traffic lights and stop signs. (Oh, and that white line in the middle of the highway has to go). Then I will truly be FREE!
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Old 07-10-06, 05:58 AM   #25
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I'm guessing that those of us in the 50+ fourm are the ones who detest these things the most. We're old enough to remember the time prior to their existence. If my kids and younger friends are any indication, they're not a problem for them. They don't think much about it. It's part of the whole bike package and they know of nothing different, for the most part. Mine are on, and I've learned to take off the front wheel by turning the left and right side of the QR at the same rate... both on and off. So, it's not much of a problem. I suspose if I were a pro, without a support vehicle, and was in a time trial, it might be another issue.
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