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  1. #1
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    Legal obligations of buying a bike.

    Cropped up on the Lawyer tab posting and that is the legal procedures firms have to go through to stop being sued by idiots. I have just built up a bike for one of my neighbours daughters and there are stickers all over the place. QR's have a sticker on asking if you know how to adjust properly- If not look at the manual. Another states that the Bike is not suitable for stunting or racing. Other stickers advise you to see the manual to find out how to adjust various parts properly, And yet another sticker advises you not to adjust this part without reading the manual. What Manual? A bit of cardboard that informs you that all adjustments should be made by a Competent trained mechanic. Bit different to my Giant Manual that I expected to tell me all the technical details of my bike but only tells you how to adjust a few parts that I would regard as common knowledge.

    The following are a few "Factoids" that are being made onbehalf of the loony Legal system that appears to be making an appearance in the UK.


    The Stella Awards are named after 81 year-old Stella Liebeck who spilled
    hot coffee on herself and successfully sued McDonald's. That case
    inspired the Stella Awards for the most frivolous, ridiculous,
    successful lawsuits in the United States.

    Here are this year's winners:


    3rd Place : A Philadelphia restaurant was ordered to pay Amber Carson of
    Lancaster, Pennsylvania, $113,500. after she slipped on a soft drink and
    broke her coccyx (tailbone). The beverage was on the floor because Ms.
    Carson had thrown it at her boyfriend 30 seconds earlier during an
    argument.

    2nd Place: Kara Walton of Claymont, Delaware, successfully sued the
    owner of a night club in a neighboring city when she fell from the
    bathroom window to the floor and knocked out her two front teeth. This
    occurred while Ms.Walton was trying to sneak through the window in the
    ladies room to avoid paying the $3.50 cover charge. She was awarded
    $12,000. and dental expenses.

    1st Place: This year's runaway winner was Mrs. Merv Grazinski of
    Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Mrs. Grazinski purchased a brand new 32-foot
    Winnebago motor home. On her first trip home, (from an OU football
    game), having driven onto the freeway, she set the cruise control at 70
    mph and calmly left the drivers seat to go into the back & make herself
    a sandwich. Not surprisingly, the RV left the freeway, crashed and
    overturned. Mrs.Grazinski sued Winnebago for not advising her in the
    owner's manual that she couldn't actually do this. The jury awarded her
    $1,750,000. plus a new motor home. The company actually changed their
    manuals on the basis of this suit, just in case there were any other
    complete morons around.

    As Mr Blair introduced No Win No Fee schemes for us in the UK, does any
    small business stand a hope in hell of surviving this sort of bollocks!!
    How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


    Spike Milligan

  2. #2
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
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    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
    Capo [dschaw'-poe]: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
    Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
    Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
    Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069

  3. #3
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John E

    As referred to "Factoid"

    Although a true one was a Burglar that attempted to steel from a Building site of a Factory in the UK. Had Something fall on him and broke his leg. Sued the Company and Judge had the presence of mind to award a minimal Award--- But sued the Company under Health and safety for having a dangerous site.
    How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


    Spike Milligan

  4. #4
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John E
    Are the other two cases cited in the OP more of the same?

    Also there is a lot more to the "Stella" lawsuit than meets the eye. McDonalds was hardly without fault and WAS negligently and intentionally serving scaldingly hot coffee. Doesn't mean Stella was clever but I'd avoid smugly making assumptions about baseless lawsuits mentioned in Internet gossip.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    Are the other two cases cited in the OP more of the same?

    Also there is a lot more to the "Stella" lawsuit than meets the eye. McDonalds was hardly without fault and WAS negligently and intentionally serving scaldingly hot coffee. Doesn't mean Stella was clever but I'd avoid smugly making assumptions about baseless lawsuits mentioned in Internet gossip.
    Actually, I'd love to hear the plaintiff's arguments on the three cases that were referenced. That doesn't mean that I'd agree with the judgement, I'd just like to hear both sides.

    In the McDonald's case, I'm upset because it affects me personally. I hate luke warm coffee!

  6. #6
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    Before we go off on a tangent about
    frivolous lawsuits it should be pointed
    out that the majority of lawsuits in the
    US are filed by Corporations.

    I for one cherish my right to 'sue
    the bastards' in court, and any restriction
    of that right is a blight against humanity
    as far as I am concerned. I ain't a number,
    and I am not gonna be anyone's slave.

    Litigation rights for citizens should be
    retained as a matter of free rights in
    all so called democracies IMNSHO.
    Ned Goudy, Glendora, CA USA
    Lightning Thunderbolt, Easy Racer EZ1, Rhoades Car
    http://www.rhoadescar.com/4w1p-j.jpg

  7. #7
    Senior Member NOS88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedgoudy
    Before we go off on a tangent about
    frivolous lawsuits it should be pointed
    out that the majority of lawsuits in the
    US are filed by Corporations.

    I for one cherish my right to 'sue
    the bastards' in court, and any restriction
    of that right is a blight against humanity
    as far as I am concerned. I ain't a number,
    and I am not gonna be anyone's slave.

    Litigation rights for citizens should be
    retained as a matter of free rights in
    all so called democracies IMNSHO.

    +1
    A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. - S. Wright

  8. #8
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John E
    So they fail the snopes test... on the other hand take a look at huge tag that is on every extension cord sold in the US in recent years. Oy Vay... like we needed all that. Then look in any owner's manual of any product sold in recent years. The first few friggin pages are all disclaimers.

    Here's my list of common disclaimers:

    This product is meant for educational purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. List each check separately by bank number. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. Do not use while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment. Postage will be paid by addressee. Subject to approval. This is not an offer to sell securities. Apply only to affected area. May be too intense for some viewers. Do not stamp. Use other side for additional listings. For recreational use only. Do not disturb. All models over 18 years of age. If condition persists, consult your physician. No user-serviceable parts inside. Freshest if eaten before date on carton. Subject to change without notice. Times approximate. Simulated picture. No postage necessary if mailed in the United States. Breaking seal constitutes acceptance of agreement. For off-road use only. As seen on TV. One size fits all. Many suitcases look alike. Contains a substantial amount of non-tobacco ingredients. Colors may, in time, fade. We have sent the forms which seem to be right for you. Slippery when wet. For office use only. Not affiliated with the American Red Cross. Drop in any mailbox. Edited for television. Keep cool; process promptly. Post office will not deliver without postage. List was current at time of printing. Return to sender, no forwarding order on file, unable to forward. Not responsible for direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages resulting from any defect, error or failure to perform. At participating locations only. Not the Beatles. Penalty for private use. See label for sequence. Substantial penalty for early withdrawal. Do not write below this line. Falling rock. Lost ticket pays maximum rate. Your cancelled check is your receipt. Add toner. Place stamp here. Avoid contact with skin. Sanitized for your protection. Be sure each item is properly endorsed. Sign here without admitting guilt. Slightly higher west of the Mississippi. Employees and their families are not eligible. Beware of dog. Contestants have been briefed on some questions before the show. Limited time offer, call now to insure prompt delivery. You must be present to win. No passes accepted for this engagement. No purchase necessary. Processed at location stamped in code at top of carton. Shading within a garment may occur. Use only in well-ventilated area. Keep away from fire or flame. Replace with same type. Approved for veterans. Booths for two or more. Check here if tax deductible. Some equipment shown is optional. Price does not include taxes. No Canadian coins. Not recommended for children. Prerecorded for this time zone. Reproduction strictly prohibited. No solicitors. No alcohol, dogs, or horses. No anchovies unless otherwise specified. Restaurant package, not for resale. List at least two alternate dates. First pull up, then pull down. Call toll free before digging. Driver does not carry cash. Some of the trademarks mentioned in this product appear for identification purposes only. Record additional transactions on back of previous stub. Decision of judges is final.

    This supersedes all previous notices.


    This product is meant for educational purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. List each check separately by bank number. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. Do not use while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment. Postage will be paid by addressee. Subject to CAB approval. This is not an offer to sell securities. Apply only to affected area. May be too intense for some viewers. Do not stamp. Use other side for additional listings. For recreational use only. Do not disturb. All models over 18 years of age. If condition persists, consult your physician. No user-serviceable parts inside. Freshest if eaten before date on carton. Subject to change without notice. Times approximate. Simulated picture. No postage necessary if mailed in the United States. Breaking seal constitutes acceptance of agreement. For off-road use only. As seen on TV. One size fits all. Many suitcases look alike. Contains a substantial amount of non-tobacco ingredients. Colors may, in time, fade. We have sent the forms which seem to be right for you. Slippery when wet. For office use only. Not affiliated with the American Red Cross. Drop in any mailbox. Edited for television. Keep cool; process promptly. Post office will not deliver without postage. List was current at time of printing. Return to sender, no forwarding order on file, unable to forward. Not responsible for direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages resulting from any defect, error or failure to perform. At participating locations only. Not the Beatles.

    BTW this list is not all inclusive, anyone using this list for any purpose what so ever is doing so at their own behest and behalf. I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV. I have never been to a Holiday Inn Express.

  9. #9
    Email for new group DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    Are the other two cases cited in the OP more of the same?

    Also there is a lot more to the "Stella" lawsuit than meets the eye. McDonalds was hardly without fault and WAS negligently and intentionally serving scaldingly hot coffee. Doesn't mean Stella was clever but I'd avoid smugly making assumptions about baseless lawsuits mentioned in Internet gossip.
    +1

    McDonald's had numerous injuries reported over their scaldingly hot coffee. These had been reported and ignored by McD's.

    Be careful about conclusions when you don't have all the facts.

    My son and daughter-in-law sue corporations who have blatantly totally ignored laws such as the Americans with Disabilities Act. As the US has no effective enforcement procedure for violations of these laws, lawsuits are the only means available.

    If the corporation would follow the laws, they wouldn't get sued.

    I spent some time investigating a number of Taco Bells in CA. Totally inaccessible bathrooms, doors you couldn't get a wheelchair through, etc., etc. Yet the ADA has been in effect since 1990.
    Last edited by DnvrFox; 07-18-06 at 05:45 PM.
    Gone - email me at dnvrfox@aol.com for new group of old 50+ folks

  10. #10
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    How about the waiver you have to sign for an organized bike ride?

    I've organized a few group rides. On the map I print:
    This is a ride for which no fees are charged and no services are promised. In other words, I am going to bicycle along the route indicated on this map and you are welcome to ride along, if you choose, at your own risk.

    Of course, I haven't had my lawyer review it partially because I'd like to keep it down to 1 page.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DnvrFox
    +1

    McDonald's had numerous injuries reported over their scaldingly hot coffee. These had been reported and ignored by McD's.

    Be careful about conclusions when you don't have all the facts.
    As I understood the case, McDonalds made the decision to keep their coffee hot because the majority of their customers, like me, said that they wanted it hot.

  12. #12
    Email for new group DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Void where prohibited.
    Whenever I do that, the police come and get me. I tell them that is what the sign/label said!
    Gone - email me at dnvrfox@aol.com for new group of old 50+ folks

  13. #13
    I need more cowbell. Digital Gee's Avatar
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    Has it ever been established whether or not it IS okay, after all, to remove mattress tags???
    Visit my blog! The Leadership Almanac
    2012 Masi Evoluzione
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    Proud member of the original Club Tombay

  14. #14
    In Memory of One Cool Cat Blackberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Gee
    Has it ever been established whether or not it IS okay, after all, to remove mattress tags???
    I had a neighbor who tried it. He disappeared in the middle of the night. I haven't seen him in six months.
    Dead last finish is better than did not finish and infinitely better than did not start.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackberry
    I had a neighbor who tried it. He disappeared in the middle of the night. I haven't seen him in six months.
    I'm guessing that you haven't been to Guantanamo in six months or longer.

  16. #16
    Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    Are the other two cases cited in the OP more of the same?
    http://www.snopes.com/legal/lawsuits.asp

    - Dave

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedgoudy
    Before we go off on a tangent about
    frivolous lawsuits it should be pointed
    out that the majority of lawsuits in the
    US are filed by Corporations.

    I for one cherish my right to 'sue
    the bastards' in court, and any restriction
    of that right is a blight against humanity
    as far as I am concerned. I ain't a number,
    and I am not gonna be anyone's slave.

    Litigation rights for citizens should be
    retained as a matter of free rights in
    all so called democracies IMNSHO.
    Fair enough, but surely Stapfam's point WAS "frivolous lawsuits" which do, to those of us outside the U.S., seem to abound?? -- though it must be said that the same sort of thing is happening with increasing frequency elsewhere. Seems to me that suits/consequent damage awards of the 'Stella' variety indeed are the result of either an attempt to extort money from liability insurers, by utilizing what are clearly rather impossibly high (even absurd) standards of care/forseeable harm, OR of a kind of "Mummy, Mummy I did something really stupid but somebody else HAS to be responsible for protecting me from myself" attitude.
    Cheers.

  18. #18
    Senior Curmudgeon
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    Frivolous lawsuits do abound. Unfortunately, many of the most frivolous and outrageous are perpetrated under the ADA legislation. These frivolous lawsuits not only outrage the general public, but also make it harder for disabled people, who rightly deserve access, to succeed with legitimate ADA suits.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarHorizon
    Frivolous lawsuits do abound. Unfortunately, many of the most frivolous and outrageous are perpetrated under the ADA legislation. These frivolous lawsuits not only outrage the general public, but also make it harder for disabled people, who rightly deserve access, to succeed with legitimate ADA suits.
    Excellent point. We have a // situation up here, though not so much in a court setting as before administrative tribunals (even worse!), with individuals and/or 'interest groups' overusing/abusing our federal and the various provincial 'Charter/Human Rights Codes' to pursue either personal monetary or other gains, or to try to impose their view of the world/ideal society on the rest of us; the result, predictably enough, is to obscure/even frustrate or delay what most would consider reasonable/legitimate claims by clogging up and making of mockery of these procedural mechanisms.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch
    As I understood the case, McDonalds made the decision to keep their coffee hot because the majority of their customers, like me, said that they wanted it hot.
    The coffee that McDs served, IIRC was over 170 degrees (too hot to even consume, unless you want your mouth and internals scalded). This was over 35 degrees hotter than several other fast food breakfast places.
    The woman suffered second and third degree burns. A third degree burn goes below the skin and damages the underlying tissue. If someone were to take a big gulp, chances are they would die as the inside of their throat swells and blisters up from the damage.

    The reason, (again from memory), was that at the higher temps, they could leach more product from the ground up coffee bean. McDs lost because 1) they provided a product no one could use (too hot); 2) they had several other incidents, so were aware of the problem, yet did nothing.

  21. #21
    OnTheRoad or AtTheBeach stonecrd's Avatar
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    I believe that people and corporations can be negligent and should be held accountable if this negligance results in injury or death. However, I also believe that people must employ common sense in their lives and not require corporations to spend time and money determining how some foolish person may use their product in a way that it is clearly not intended for and create warnings for such. The results are increased cost of insurance and products for all of us. In addition these warnings have become so numerous and silly that most people don't even read them anymore. So you essentially have time and cost put into something just as protection against litigation. That helps no one.

    I believe that people in the 40s, 50s and mayby even in the 60s have some rights to damages against cigarette mfgs. However, I cannot possibly believe that people more recently can possibly claim they did not know of the dangers or did not have the will power to resist smoking. If this is the case then the govt should step in and make smoking illegal.

    Stapfam did you have the person sign a waiver releasing you from any liabaility as result of an accident from use of a bike you built up?
    The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard and the shallow end is much too large

    2013 Noah RS

  22. #22
    Senior Member NOS88's Avatar
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    I wonder, is a frivolous lawsuit when someone else gets the money and not me? I think in the U.S., at least, there is some very crooked thinking about this, due in large part to the media playing on people's sense of fairness. I suspect that most people who quickly denounce a lawsuit as frivolous (no I don't have any hard research to support this) would not see any suit they brought before the courts as frivolous. I do believe that there are those individuals who knowingly take advantage of people, however, I suspect they are in the minority.
    A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. - S. Wright

  23. #23
    OnTheRoad or AtTheBeach stonecrd's Avatar
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    It comes down to personal morals. Is money that important in the scheme of things? I don't how many contractors have come by this year since the Hurricanes saying they will replace my roof, replace my screening, don't worry we can get the insurance to pay, even though the adjusters have said no. I am sure a lot of people see this as a winfall, I get a new generator, new roof whatever and someone else will pay for it. We all know who pays for it, all of us in insurance rates, product costs etc. It may be the minority of the population but it is certainly affecting the majority. Maybe I'm just getting old and crusty?
    The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard and the shallow end is much too large

    2013 Noah RS

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