Cycling, Longevity and Environmentalism
07-21-06, 05:15 AM
#51
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Why can't we have a highway worker who posts here? How about the rest of you who had steady employment your entire career?
Can't someone come to my defense and support my logic?
1. The expenditure of energy creates jobs
2. The more people who are employed leads to the rapid advancements in technology
3. Advanced technology leads to reductions in carbon based energy consumption (telecomuting)
4. Advanced technology promotes a global economy where citizens in other societies live better lives
5. The only countries the U.S. has serious tensions with (Iran & N. Korea) do not embrace the same freedoms and human rights as do the rest of the world (and neither did Sadam)
6. Technology which has been fueled by carbon based energy expenditure has been good for the world. Let me list a few examples which pertain just to the development of bicycles during the last 100+ years in order to bring this discussion back to the purpose of BF:
a) development of modern steel which led to the construction of bicycle frames, spokes, etc.
b) synthesis of rubber from hydrocarbons for bicycle tires
c) synthesis of plastics from hydrocarbons for bicycle seats, grips, and other light weight parts
d) synthesis of carbon fibers from hydrocarbons for lightweight bicycle frames
e) the gaskets in your bike pumps which allow you to inflate your tires to +/- 100 lbs.
f) the ability to produce incredible amounts of heat and power which is needed to forge and produce the strong alloys of aluminum and titanium
g) the seals which keep the grit and grime out of the shocks on MTBs and sealed wheel, BB, and headset bearings
Need I go on?
If we had not become a carbon burning energy expending society during the last 100-200 years, we would still be walking, riding in wooden horse drawn vehicles, or sailing in wooden ships. There would be no bicycles, no paved roads or paths to ride upon. We would not be able to have this electronic international debate via. the Internet. Our houses would be heated by wood, if there was any forest left by now. Lance Armstrong would have died of testicular cancer. Floyd Landis would become a amputee, if he were to survive the surgery.
And Cooker, before you worry about the world running out of oil in your life time, do a little research. Just north and west of you in your beautiful country of Canada, there is something called the "oil sands." Just in that single place, there exists enough oil to fuel the entire world's current and projected oil needs for over 100 years. Canada should be able to really advance with all that carbon based energy they can sell to others. And don't fool yourself that they won't do it. Just look at what Norway has accomplished through their oil sales since the 80s. Norway is the richest per capita country on the face of the planet, simply by allowing the expenditure of energy to proceed. And gee, when was the last time the U.S. was in a war with Norway, or Canada?
Come one Cooker, smile as you ride your bike to the office, you have carbon based energy expenditures to thank that you have a bicycle and a pavement to ride upon. If you smash the egg, you will never see the bird.
Can't someone come to my defense and support my logic?
1. The expenditure of energy creates jobs
2. The more people who are employed leads to the rapid advancements in technology
3. Advanced technology leads to reductions in carbon based energy consumption (telecomuting)
4. Advanced technology promotes a global economy where citizens in other societies live better lives
5. The only countries the U.S. has serious tensions with (Iran & N. Korea) do not embrace the same freedoms and human rights as do the rest of the world (and neither did Sadam)
6. Technology which has been fueled by carbon based energy expenditure has been good for the world. Let me list a few examples which pertain just to the development of bicycles during the last 100+ years in order to bring this discussion back to the purpose of BF:
a) development of modern steel which led to the construction of bicycle frames, spokes, etc.
b) synthesis of rubber from hydrocarbons for bicycle tires
c) synthesis of plastics from hydrocarbons for bicycle seats, grips, and other light weight parts
d) synthesis of carbon fibers from hydrocarbons for lightweight bicycle frames
e) the gaskets in your bike pumps which allow you to inflate your tires to +/- 100 lbs.
f) the ability to produce incredible amounts of heat and power which is needed to forge and produce the strong alloys of aluminum and titanium
g) the seals which keep the grit and grime out of the shocks on MTBs and sealed wheel, BB, and headset bearings
Need I go on?
If we had not become a carbon burning energy expending society during the last 100-200 years, we would still be walking, riding in wooden horse drawn vehicles, or sailing in wooden ships. There would be no bicycles, no paved roads or paths to ride upon. We would not be able to have this electronic international debate via. the Internet. Our houses would be heated by wood, if there was any forest left by now. Lance Armstrong would have died of testicular cancer. Floyd Landis would become a amputee, if he were to survive the surgery.
And Cooker, before you worry about the world running out of oil in your life time, do a little research. Just north and west of you in your beautiful country of Canada, there is something called the "oil sands." Just in that single place, there exists enough oil to fuel the entire world's current and projected oil needs for over 100 years. Canada should be able to really advance with all that carbon based energy they can sell to others. And don't fool yourself that they won't do it. Just look at what Norway has accomplished through their oil sales since the 80s. Norway is the richest per capita country on the face of the planet, simply by allowing the expenditure of energy to proceed. And gee, when was the last time the U.S. was in a war with Norway, or Canada?
Come one Cooker, smile as you ride your bike to the office, you have carbon based energy expenditures to thank that you have a bicycle and a pavement to ride upon. If you smash the egg, you will never see the bird.
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Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
07-21-06, 05:23 AM
#52
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
Can't someone come to my defense and support my logic?
I have no complaints re your argument. It is simply that I have never, ever seen anyone's mind changed by internet "arguments" and discussions. I think the discussions serve the poster well, but not the audience, as no one actually considers the possibility that someone else may have a valid point of view, which is why we have the P&R forum - for all the folks who enjoy spouting!
IOW, you are likely engaged in an exercise of futility, IMHO.
BTW, there is NO shortage of energy. The energy the sun (and gravity - see below) provides to the earth daily is multifold more times than we need or consume. In the long run, the harnessing of this energy by various means will keep us in fine shape while also fueling the economy. That is the true next technological revolution. I have been listening to the doom sayers for many years. It won't happen, and the net result will be clean and plentiful energy for mankind.
One of the most interesting is harnessing the changes in ocean level resulting from tidal changes, which would be harnessing the energy of gravity. This has been touted as the potential single most important energy source available. This includes not only tides rushing in and out, but actually harnessing the tidal changes in the ocean level, and the power of waves.
In the interim, Colorado, like Canada, has huge deposits of oil shale and the like as yet untapped.
Last edited by DnvrFox; 07-21-06 at 05:57 AM.
07-21-06, 05:41 AM
#53
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Originally Posted by Blackberry
Good one. As the old saw goes, "If all the economists who ever lived were laid end-to-end they would not reach a conclusion."
W.P.
07-21-06, 06:13 AM
#54
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In some aspects, road bicycling will become slightly more popular in the coming years. Just as China's economy has grown enough to support the ownership and use of personal automobiles, the rest of the world's use of single owner/personal usage of automobiles will decline due to fuel expenses.
It's likely, that within 20 years, there may be more cars, yet they may be driven much less often and much lesser distances. In the United States - this may make for safer cycling. But eventually, roads will declines when the gasoline taxes are no longer available for maintainence.
In this manner, cycling and mass-transit systems will contriubte to the decline of smooth roads.
It's likely, that within 20 years, there may be more cars, yet they may be driven much less often and much lesser distances. In the United States - this may make for safer cycling. But eventually, roads will declines when the gasoline taxes are no longer available for maintainence.
In this manner, cycling and mass-transit systems will contriubte to the decline of smooth roads.
07-21-06, 06:15 AM
#55
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Originally Posted by DnvrFox
IOW, you are likely engaged in an exercise of futility, IMHO.
Originally Posted by DnvrFox
BTW, there is NO shortage of energy. The energy the sun (and gravity - see below) provides to the earth daily is multifold more times than we need or consume.
Originally Posted by DnvrFox
no one actually considers the possibility that someone else may have a valid point of view
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
07-21-06, 08:12 AM
#56
Prefers Cicero
I enjoy living in the developed world as much as the next person, but I also want to think about the future. Natural gas is used to produce fertilizer, and oil is used in agricultural production, and apparently (someone post a link if I'm wrong) about half the food on the planet can be grown because that energy is available. That's wonderful. But...
As China and India start to approach the same standard of living as North America, which I agree with Pastor Bob is a good thing from a social point of view, that's a couple of billion people who are going to eat more, including eating more meat, and pave a lot their farmland for highways and parking lots as we have (and they've already flooded some of their best land for hydroelectric power) and escalate their use of petrochemicals. A lot of estimates of how long oil will last are based on current consumption rates but with China going into a car ownership boom, those consumption rates are going to skyrocket. What will they eat when the oil supply runs low? Not American corn...that'll apparently all be going into ethanol fuel.
Estimates on when the crunch will come vary widely. If it's in our lifetimes we'll suffer for our shortsightedness. If it's in our children's or grandchildren's lifetime, that's bad too, because we know those people, or we will.
It's true that the oil sands (or tar sands) are a massive reservoir of oil, but in figuring their utility you have to shrink them by a huge production factor. To get a gallon of gasoline into your car from Saudi oil, you have to spend a quarter of a gallon on exploration, drilling, refining and shipping. To get a gallon of gasoline from tar sands into your car you have to spend almost a gallon or its equivalent in natural gas. So effectively the tar sands oil is a far smaller resource than its proponents would have you believe. The natural gas currently used to extract oil from the tar sands will likely run out long before the tar sands are fully exploited, further increasing the energy cost or reducing the recovery efficiency of that oil.
I'm not a pessimist or a cynic. I actually believe we can have it all...a high quality of life and rational energy policies. People need to be educated about the real threat of fossil fuel depletion and not be buoyed and reassured by the bread and circuses of governments and oil and car companies. People need to pay the full cost of their energy usage...all highways should be tolled, rural and suburban municipalities should not get state/provincial and federal subsidies to help fund utilities like sewers, paving and policing to offset property taxes, agricultural subsidies should be removed and a host of other green economic policies need to be brought in, so people will make simple economic choices to help themselves and the planet, like living closer to work, driving fuel efficient vehicles or going on foot or by bike or public transit, and buying smaller, well insulated homes on smaller lots. They don't know it, but they'll actually be happier and healthier. And this isn't something I'm suggesting we force on people. They should simply pay full price for what they use, and they can decide for themselves to scale back.
I don't expect The USA to invade Canada for our oil, because we're selling it already at a fair price. Instead, "when Bush comes to shove", as someone said, it will be for water.
Oh, and Bob - Norway was last invaded for its oil in 1940...I doubt they've forgotten.
As China and India start to approach the same standard of living as North America, which I agree with Pastor Bob is a good thing from a social point of view, that's a couple of billion people who are going to eat more, including eating more meat, and pave a lot their farmland for highways and parking lots as we have (and they've already flooded some of their best land for hydroelectric power) and escalate their use of petrochemicals. A lot of estimates of how long oil will last are based on current consumption rates but with China going into a car ownership boom, those consumption rates are going to skyrocket. What will they eat when the oil supply runs low? Not American corn...that'll apparently all be going into ethanol fuel.
Estimates on when the crunch will come vary widely. If it's in our lifetimes we'll suffer for our shortsightedness. If it's in our children's or grandchildren's lifetime, that's bad too, because we know those people, or we will.
It's true that the oil sands (or tar sands) are a massive reservoir of oil, but in figuring their utility you have to shrink them by a huge production factor. To get a gallon of gasoline into your car from Saudi oil, you have to spend a quarter of a gallon on exploration, drilling, refining and shipping. To get a gallon of gasoline from tar sands into your car you have to spend almost a gallon or its equivalent in natural gas. So effectively the tar sands oil is a far smaller resource than its proponents would have you believe. The natural gas currently used to extract oil from the tar sands will likely run out long before the tar sands are fully exploited, further increasing the energy cost or reducing the recovery efficiency of that oil.
I'm not a pessimist or a cynic. I actually believe we can have it all...a high quality of life and rational energy policies. People need to be educated about the real threat of fossil fuel depletion and not be buoyed and reassured by the bread and circuses of governments and oil and car companies. People need to pay the full cost of their energy usage...all highways should be tolled, rural and suburban municipalities should not get state/provincial and federal subsidies to help fund utilities like sewers, paving and policing to offset property taxes, agricultural subsidies should be removed and a host of other green economic policies need to be brought in, so people will make simple economic choices to help themselves and the planet, like living closer to work, driving fuel efficient vehicles or going on foot or by bike or public transit, and buying smaller, well insulated homes on smaller lots. They don't know it, but they'll actually be happier and healthier. And this isn't something I'm suggesting we force on people. They should simply pay full price for what they use, and they can decide for themselves to scale back.
I don't expect The USA to invade Canada for our oil, because we're selling it already at a fair price. Instead, "when Bush comes to shove", as someone said, it will be for water.
Oh, and Bob - Norway was last invaded for its oil in 1940...I doubt they've forgotten.
07-21-06, 08:37 AM
#57
Prefers Cicero
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium
In this manner, cycling and mass-transit systems will contriubte to the decline of smooth roads.
07-21-06, 11:31 AM
#58
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Originally Posted by cooker
I enjoy living in the developed world as much as the next person, but I also want to think about the future. Natural gas is used to produce fertilizer, and oil is used in agricultural production, and apparently (someone post a link if I'm wrong) about half the food on the planet can be grown because that energy is available. That's wonderful. But...
As China and India start to approach the same standard of living as North America, which I agree with Pastor Bob is a good thing from a social point of view, that's a couple of billion people who are going to eat more, including eating more meat, and pave a lot their farmland for highways and parking lots as we have (and they've already flooded some of their best land for hydroelectric power) and escalate their use of petrochemicals. A lot of estimates of how long oil will last are based on current consumption rates but with China going into a car ownership boom, those consumption rates are going to skyrocket. What will they eat when the oil supply runs low? Not American corn...that'll apparently all be going into ethanol fuel.
Estimates on when the crunch will come vary widely. If it's in our lifetimes we'll suffer for our shortsightedness. If it's in our children's or grandchildren's lifetime, that's bad too, because we know those people, or we will.
It's true that the oil sands (or tar sands) are a massive reservoir of oil, but in figuring their utility you have to shrink them by a huge production factor. To get a gallon of gasoline into your car from Saudi oil, you have to spend a quarter of a gallon on exploration, drilling, refining and shipping. To get a gallon of gasoline from tar sands into your car you have to spend almost a gallon or its equivalent in natural gas. So effectively the tar sands oil is a far smaller resource than its proponents would have you believe. The natural gas currently used to extract oil from the tar sands will likely run out long before the tar sands are fully exploited, further increasing the energy cost or reducing the recovery efficiency of that oil.
I'm not a pessimist or a cynic. I actually believe we can have it all...a high quality of life and rational energy policies. People need to be educated about the real threat of fossil fuel depletion and not be buoyed and reassured by the bread and circuses of governments and oil and car companies. People need to pay the full cost of their energy usage...all highways should be tolled, rural and suburban municipalities should not get state/provincial and federal subsidies to help fund utilities like sewers, paving and policing to offset property taxes, agricultural subsidies should be removed and a host of other green economic policies need to be brought in, so people will make simple economic choices to help themselves and the planet, like living closer to work, driving fuel efficient vehicles or going on foot or by bike or public transit, and buying smaller, well insulated homes on smaller lots. They don't know it, but they'll actually be happier and healthier. And this isn't something I'm suggesting we force on people. They should simply pay full price for what they use, and they can decide for themselves to scale back.
I don't expect The USA to invade Canada for our oil, because we're selling it already at a fair price. Instead, "when Bush comes to shove", as someone said, it will be for water.
Oh, and Bob - Norway was last invaded for its oil in 1940...I doubt they've forgotten.
As China and India start to approach the same standard of living as North America, which I agree with Pastor Bob is a good thing from a social point of view, that's a couple of billion people who are going to eat more, including eating more meat, and pave a lot their farmland for highways and parking lots as we have (and they've already flooded some of their best land for hydroelectric power) and escalate their use of petrochemicals. A lot of estimates of how long oil will last are based on current consumption rates but with China going into a car ownership boom, those consumption rates are going to skyrocket. What will they eat when the oil supply runs low? Not American corn...that'll apparently all be going into ethanol fuel.
Estimates on when the crunch will come vary widely. If it's in our lifetimes we'll suffer for our shortsightedness. If it's in our children's or grandchildren's lifetime, that's bad too, because we know those people, or we will.
It's true that the oil sands (or tar sands) are a massive reservoir of oil, but in figuring their utility you have to shrink them by a huge production factor. To get a gallon of gasoline into your car from Saudi oil, you have to spend a quarter of a gallon on exploration, drilling, refining and shipping. To get a gallon of gasoline from tar sands into your car you have to spend almost a gallon or its equivalent in natural gas. So effectively the tar sands oil is a far smaller resource than its proponents would have you believe. The natural gas currently used to extract oil from the tar sands will likely run out long before the tar sands are fully exploited, further increasing the energy cost or reducing the recovery efficiency of that oil.
I'm not a pessimist or a cynic. I actually believe we can have it all...a high quality of life and rational energy policies. People need to be educated about the real threat of fossil fuel depletion and not be buoyed and reassured by the bread and circuses of governments and oil and car companies. People need to pay the full cost of their energy usage...all highways should be tolled, rural and suburban municipalities should not get state/provincial and federal subsidies to help fund utilities like sewers, paving and policing to offset property taxes, agricultural subsidies should be removed and a host of other green economic policies need to be brought in, so people will make simple economic choices to help themselves and the planet, like living closer to work, driving fuel efficient vehicles or going on foot or by bike or public transit, and buying smaller, well insulated homes on smaller lots. They don't know it, but they'll actually be happier and healthier. And this isn't something I'm suggesting we force on people. They should simply pay full price for what they use, and they can decide for themselves to scale back.
I don't expect The USA to invade Canada for our oil, because we're selling it already at a fair price. Instead, "when Bush comes to shove", as someone said, it will be for water.
Oh, and Bob - Norway was last invaded for its oil in 1940...I doubt they've forgotten.
Last edited by DnvrFox; 07-21-06 at 11:48 AM.
07-21-06, 11:40 AM
#59
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does this mean cooker's posts will need to be vetted by our official Grantland Rice editor, CrossChain?
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centexwoody
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07-21-06, 12:22 PM
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The mere fact that you can afford the luxury of time and attention to worry about issues that are fairly abstract from your immediate needs is a testimony to the upward push of technical civilization...particularly Western civ. My grandparents' concerns during the Depression were more immediate: holding on to the family farm, feeding 9 kids, dealing with the pain of a toothache, keeping the ancient tractor running, etc.
They would be quite happy if their grandchildren's anxieties were so diffuse and, while ominous, not so pointedly scary. "The War" took five of their children and returned two as they were before.
There are many forceful waves out there building and bearing upon our sunny beach. Energy crises are indeed among them. Being forewarned is good, being securely forarmed seldom seems to work for us. We should arm ourselves as best we can, enjoy the sun while we have it, and consider that many waves have crashed upon our beach.... and hopefully we will have trained our best children to successfully meet those always incoming future waves.
***Woody, the only thing I know abut vetting is when I take my dog Nards in for his shots.
They would be quite happy if their grandchildren's anxieties were so diffuse and, while ominous, not so pointedly scary. "The War" took five of their children and returned two as they were before.
There are many forceful waves out there building and bearing upon our sunny beach. Energy crises are indeed among them. Being forewarned is good, being securely forarmed seldom seems to work for us. We should arm ourselves as best we can, enjoy the sun while we have it, and consider that many waves have crashed upon our beach.... and hopefully we will have trained our best children to successfully meet those always incoming future waves.
***Woody, the only thing I know abut vetting is when I take my dog Nards in for his shots.
Last edited by CrossChain; 07-21-06 at 01:20 PM.
07-21-06, 12:44 PM
#61
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Originally Posted by cooker
Paved roads were invented for bicycles.
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07-21-06, 01:14 PM
#62
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vetting? ask Stapfam...
Originally Posted by CrossChain
***Woody, the only thing I know abut vetting is when I take my dog Nards in for his shots.
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centexwoody
They're beautiful handsome machines that translate energy into joy.
centexwoody
They're beautiful handsome machines that translate energy into joy.
07-21-06, 02:08 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
Why can't we have a highway worker who posts here? How about the rest of you who had steady employment your entire career?
Can't someone come to my defense and support my logic?
1. The expenditure of energy creates jobs
2. The more people who are employed leads to the rapid advancements in technology
3. Advanced technology leads to reductions in carbon based energy consumption (telecomuting)
4. Advanced technology promotes a global economy where citizens in other societies live better lives
5. The only countries the U.S. has serious tensions with (Iran & N. Korea) do not embrace the same freedoms and human rights as do the rest of the world (and neither did Sadam)
6. Technology which has been fueled by carbon based energy expenditure has been good for the world. Let me list a few examples which pertain just to the development of bicycles during the last 100+ years in order to bring this discussion back to the purpose of BF:
a) development of modern steel which led to the construction of bicycle frames, spokes, etc.
b) synthesis of rubber from hydrocarbons for bicycle tires
c) synthesis of plastics from hydrocarbons for bicycle seats, grips, and other light weight parts
d) synthesis of carbon fibers from hydrocarbons for lightweight bicycle frames
e) the gaskets in your bike pumps which allow you to inflate your tires to +/- 100 lbs.
f) the ability to produce incredible amounts of heat and power which is needed to forge and produce the strong alloys of aluminum and titanium
g) the seals which keep the grit and grime out of the shocks on MTBs and sealed wheel, BB, and headset bearings
Need I go on?
If we had not become a carbon burning energy expending society during the last 100-200 years, we would still be walking, riding in wooden horse drawn vehicles, or sailing in wooden ships. There would be no bicycles, no paved roads or paths to ride upon. We would not be able to have this electronic international debate via. the Internet. Our houses would be heated by wood, if there was any forest left by now. Lance Armstrong would have died of testicular cancer. Floyd Landis would become a amputee, if he were to survive the surgery.
And Cooker, before you worry about the world running out of oil in your life time, do a little research. Just north and west of you in your beautiful country of Canada, there is something called the "oil sands." Just in that single place, there exists enough oil to fuel the entire world's current and projected oil needs for over 100 years. Canada should be able to really advance with all that carbon based energy they can sell to others. And don't fool yourself that they won't do it. Just look at what Norway has accomplished through their oil sales since the 80s. Norway is the richest per capita country on the face of the planet, simply by allowing the expenditure of energy to proceed. And gee, when was the last time the U.S. was in a war with Norway, or Canada?
Come one Cooker, smile as you ride your bike to the office, you have carbon based energy expenditures to thank that you have a bicycle and a pavement to ride upon. If you smash the egg, you will never see the bird.
Can't someone come to my defense and support my logic?
1. The expenditure of energy creates jobs
2. The more people who are employed leads to the rapid advancements in technology
3. Advanced technology leads to reductions in carbon based energy consumption (telecomuting)
4. Advanced technology promotes a global economy where citizens in other societies live better lives
5. The only countries the U.S. has serious tensions with (Iran & N. Korea) do not embrace the same freedoms and human rights as do the rest of the world (and neither did Sadam)
6. Technology which has been fueled by carbon based energy expenditure has been good for the world. Let me list a few examples which pertain just to the development of bicycles during the last 100+ years in order to bring this discussion back to the purpose of BF:
a) development of modern steel which led to the construction of bicycle frames, spokes, etc.
b) synthesis of rubber from hydrocarbons for bicycle tires
c) synthesis of plastics from hydrocarbons for bicycle seats, grips, and other light weight parts
d) synthesis of carbon fibers from hydrocarbons for lightweight bicycle frames
e) the gaskets in your bike pumps which allow you to inflate your tires to +/- 100 lbs.
f) the ability to produce incredible amounts of heat and power which is needed to forge and produce the strong alloys of aluminum and titanium
g) the seals which keep the grit and grime out of the shocks on MTBs and sealed wheel, BB, and headset bearings
Need I go on?
If we had not become a carbon burning energy expending society during the last 100-200 years, we would still be walking, riding in wooden horse drawn vehicles, or sailing in wooden ships. There would be no bicycles, no paved roads or paths to ride upon. We would not be able to have this electronic international debate via. the Internet. Our houses would be heated by wood, if there was any forest left by now. Lance Armstrong would have died of testicular cancer. Floyd Landis would become a amputee, if he were to survive the surgery.
And Cooker, before you worry about the world running out of oil in your life time, do a little research. Just north and west of you in your beautiful country of Canada, there is something called the "oil sands." Just in that single place, there exists enough oil to fuel the entire world's current and projected oil needs for over 100 years. Canada should be able to really advance with all that carbon based energy they can sell to others. And don't fool yourself that they won't do it. Just look at what Norway has accomplished through their oil sales since the 80s. Norway is the richest per capita country on the face of the planet, simply by allowing the expenditure of energy to proceed. And gee, when was the last time the U.S. was in a war with Norway, or Canada?
Come one Cooker, smile as you ride your bike to the office, you have carbon based energy expenditures to thank that you have a bicycle and a pavement to ride upon. If you smash the egg, you will never see the bird.
I'm with you, Bob. Much of your post echos my earlier comments.
07-21-06, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Old Hammer Boy
I'm with you, Bob. Much of your post echos my earlier comments.
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Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
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Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
07-21-06, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
And I was about to wave the white flag of truce! I didn't want to start an international incident with our good neighbor and friend to the north, even if he did hurl a negative innuendo at our national leader and is worried that we might invade and start the First Water War.
We will just dam all the rivers running out of Canada into the US of A and turn the whole place into a huge reservoir!
"The Canadian Lake"
Last edited by DnvrFox; 07-21-06 at 03:26 PM.
