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Old 08-26-06, 08:17 PM   #1
Digital Gee
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How odd...

Today I had an errand which took me right next door to one of my LBS's. So, of course, I wandered in to see if there were any amazing sales I couldn't afford to miss. Among other things, and right beside one another were these three bikes:

2005 Specialized Sequoia for $770.00

2006 Specialized Sequoia for $770.00

2007 Specialized Sequoia for $770.00

2005 and 2006 look very similar -- only the head post appears different. 2007 introduces a new two tone paint job, although still mostly silver but now with some black.

The "sale" offer was 10% off any bike in the store. To be fair, the salesperson offered me, once i questioned the three different Sequoias, a 20% discount on the 2005. (But only after asked about the differences.)

Maybe it's just me, but I found the three identical prices a bit astonishing.
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Old 08-26-06, 08:29 PM   #2
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Head tube, seat post? Gary, you know more about bikes and the bike market than most people do.....think of a less knowledgable, first time buyer who might (hopefully for the LBS) not ask about a price difference. The LBS may or may not have paid an equivalent wholesale price for the three bikes. The bikes may functionally be very equivalent, but somehow, yes--it seems there should be a discount on "older" models as there is in many other product markets. Still, dickering overmuch with an small margin LBS that I might like and use frequently always seems kind of.....I dunno..... good consumerism but graceless.

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Old 08-26-06, 08:35 PM   #3
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Well, this particular LBS isn't small. In fact, it has an indoor track to do test rides. It's called Bicycle Warehouse or something like that, and there were more bikes in that huge showroom than I've ever seen in one location before.

But, be that as it may, I think it's only fair to have signs indicating the year of the bike (other LBS's seem to be able to do that).

And why would someone NOT buy the 2007 model instead of 2006, if it's the same price? They wouldn't -- which is probably why the LBS didn't want to identify the model year -- they want to move the old stock out asap to customers who don't know the difference.

Left me with a bit of a bad taste. Not horrible, but not good.
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Old 08-26-06, 08:40 PM   #4
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Was this Adams Boulevard Cyclery And Bakery?
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Old 08-26-06, 08:42 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Paulie
Was this Adams Boulevard Cyclery And Bakery?
Nah...

Some big chain I think (3 local warehouses) up in Pacific Beach near Balboa Avenue
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Old 08-26-06, 08:48 PM   #6
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I would stick with Adams, and buy the damn Bianchi....
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Old 08-26-06, 08:49 PM   #7
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BP, you're veering off topic. The topic was the ethicacy of having three model year bikes on display at the same price. Now either get back on topic, or I'll have to call in a moderator.
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Old 08-26-06, 08:56 PM   #8
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Oh, I wouldn't want to veer off topic in the 50+ Forum, otherwise known to the world as "Off Topic Geezer Central!"
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Old 08-26-06, 09:03 PM   #9
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I appreciate that.

So, what's your opinion of the three bikes at the same price situation?
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Old 08-26-06, 09:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Paulie
I would stick with Adams, and buy the damn Bianchi....
I'm an undercover moderator and I'm stepping in here. DeeGee, are you talking Bianchi Volpe? One of my riding friends has a Dura Ace Raleigh carbon and a Volpe. For regular "training" rides he'll be on the Raleigh. For anything hilly challenging or schmoozing down for a coffee he's on his beloved Volpe. Drop bar and shifts like butter-- and faithfully too-- on its Tiagra (a wonderfully "value" series of components) shifters, has a gear range worthy of the Himalayas, is reasonably upright and unspeakably comfortable. Pretty, too. Takes 35mm tires or narrower. Good for hillies, fire roads, and fine for breathless road riding at pace or ... heading down for a coffee. I've ridden it and made an offer to buy (instantly declined). End of personal testimony-- worth a test ride.

Just in case you're looking for a bike.

Said my piece....this thread is now officially re-engaged. No more OT !

Personal to BP: A Riv Atlantis would be perfect for DG. He could just sell his current car and get a used Yugo and buy one with the savings.

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Old 08-26-06, 09:17 PM   #11
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Specialized not having an archive section like Giant does on their website, I'm wondering if there are more differences in the drivetrain and brake components betweeen the years.
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Old 08-26-06, 09:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Gee
So, what's your opinion of the three bikes at the same price situation?
OK, I'll be honest. And please don't be offended by my candor...

You went through those shop doors looking for a deal...and not even having a specific bike in mind, either. And, what you experienced is what happens to anyone who does that. You become open to this kind of semi-shady dealing. That's why I brought up the Adams shop. You seem to get along with them, and they seem to be pretty straight. I live in L.A., and I'm surrounded by bike shops. I haven't found a single one that I feel any loyalty towards, just because of the kind of stuff you described in the OP.

If it were me, I'd be glad I found Adams, I'd be glad they are close by, I'd let them carry me forward, and I'd then see if the relationship continues on it's present course. AND I'D BUY THE DAMN BIANCHI!!!!!!!! It's exactly the right bike for you at this point in your cycling experience.

Again, sorry to be so preachy and blunt.
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Old 08-26-06, 09:36 PM   #13
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I'm not offended at all. I appreciate blunt!

But I still think you missed the point. Or maybe I'm missing yours?

I went in to see if / what was on sale. Idle curiousity, nothing more. Wasn't going to buy anything (unless there was something just too amazing to pass by).

I saw three Sequoias side by side which appeared identical except for frame size. Each with a big tag, $770. Only upon taking a second look did I see minor cosmetic differences (and that's all i looked for at that point), and then a salesperson walked by, and I asked him why they were different. It was only then that he told me (since the signs didn't) that one was a 2005, one a 2006, and one a 2007.

He himself looked somewhat embarrassed, and fairly quickly offered me a 20% discount on the 2005 if I was interested, after telling me all the bikes were 10% off through September 4th.

I don't think they were cheating people or fleecing the unsuspecting, but I do think they were misleading them at least a little bit. When I visit the Trek dealer (or others) they have the 2005's marked down and clearely indicated as a 2005 model.)

It made me not want to trust whatever else they might have to say or offer. And that was my whole point -- not whether I should buy a particular bike or not.

I was mostly killing time in the LBS. I really do enjoy visiting LBS's and browsing about. i'm not always there to test ride a bike.

Anyway, I've decided that this LBS is not for me. Adams is terrific, as is both my original Trek dealer and another one equally distant, as is the Giant dealer further up on Adams. And maybe even the new store that opened in La Mesa two weeks ago, which gave me a tee shirt simply for visiting.

And PS: The Volpe is a fine bike and on my short list. But until I get the chance to test a Pilot 2.1, I ain't buyin' nuthin' (unless that unbelievable sale comes up first!). And I can even buy the Sequoia, should i want it, through Adams -- they carry Specialized and could order me one.
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Old 08-26-06, 09:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Paulie
OK, I'll be honest. . AND I'D BUY THE DAMN BIANCHI!!!!!!!! It's exactly the right bike for you at this point in your cycling experience.
Again, sorry to be so preachy and blunt.
I've not been around much lately.....which model Bianchi are you talking BP?
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Old 08-26-06, 10:49 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Gee
2005 Specialized Sequoia for $770.00
2006 Specialized Sequoia for $770.00
2007 Specialized Sequoia for $770.00
Pretty much explains why they still have a 2005 model on the floor and can't sell it.
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Old 08-26-06, 11:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dchiefransom
Specialized not having an archive section like Giant does on their website, I'm wondering if there are more differences in the drivetrain and brake components betweeen the years.
There are definite differences in the 07 Sequoia as compared to the previous years according to a very honest LBS owner I know.
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Old 08-26-06, 11:09 PM   #17
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I've not been around much lately.....which model Bianchi are you talking BP?
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Old 08-26-06, 11:32 PM   #18
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I see no difference between the market value of bikes made within five years of each other unless some significant new technology has debuted. If the shop has the same model from three different years, and can get the same price for them, why not? Bikes, unlike cars, are not discounted by the manufacturer for previous year inventory, nor should they be - there's no significant change! In fact, for the most part, changing bike models by year is nothing but a marketing ploy, IMHO. I just bought a new Specialized Rockhopper. Is it a 2007, 2006, or 2005 model? I don't know & don't care. The bike was right, the price was right, and the shop stands behind the product. Good enough for me!
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Old 08-26-06, 11:40 PM   #19
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Ah, but which one fits?
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Old 08-26-06, 11:43 PM   #20
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Is it a 2007, 2006, or 2005 model? I don't know & don't care. The bike was right, the price was right, and the shop stands behind the product. Good enough for me!
In a purely rational, Vulcan world of Spockian reason...yes. But the very human world we inhabit, including the world of marketing, has a strong affective current running through it. An '05 is somehow perceived as dated, left behind, replaced. Similarly, some people pull the second newspaper off the stack because it is "fresher", more virgin...go figure. Anyway, buyer expectations are something retailers must contend with, just as we contend with their understandable desire to maximize profit, avoid loss. Seems nothing wrong with pointing out "datedness" to an LBS as a means of reaching a mutually agreeable price. Besides, you'll be back to that shop for more-- service, parts, etc....which is where they make a large percentage of their $$.
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Old 08-27-06, 01:36 AM   #21
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2005/6/7?

Sequoia is a good bike and several on the forum have them. Wait till a Speccy owner posts, but at your riding capabilities- look at the 05 if you can get a better deal on it. That is my wallet talking

They have a test track so you will be able to get the size you want. I just looked at Giants in the OCR range and I was limited by the size range available in the previous years models. Frames were the same but the specification had changed slightly. Within my budget I had around $800 to spend and I was prepared to go for an 05 OCR2 but looked a bit longer. (About 5minutes) Then I saw the SCR and I could get a new SCR3 for the same money. In theory the SCR was lower spec but This is my LBS and They told me the differences were minimal and I believe them. Only real difference between the two bikes was that the OCR2 had a respectable set of wheels on it and the SCR had in house wheels. Prefered the SCR on colour and Feel but the final decision came very easily- WEIGHT. I picked the OCR up and not bad. When I picked up the SCR it felt lighter. It also felt better balanced but What do I know about road bikes.

I had a budget, just like you, but I only had a choice of two bikes. Both were within my range, , both fitted, and both I could get a deal on. What Made my decision? First of all was that weight. It was in the end 2 lbs and that is a difference worth thinking about. Running very close behind was the fact that I would have this years model and yes it is an 07. Just as close was the colour. Not that this normally affects me but shiny new anthracite was better than a dirty orange and red.

I got the SCR but I looked at this sensibly. The price was good- in fact almost as good as you are being offered. The bikes were good and if I were to have a choice- I think I would go for the Sequoia over a giant. I did not really need a new bike as I already had bikes I was riding well- Ring a bell somewhere.

I am now Convinced that you are my Twin brother, Separated at birth. There are slight differences between us as I seem to get a bit luckier. I only had a choice of two bikes. The rest of us now have to put up with you taking a choice between 3. If the money is there- and the size is right- the Price definitely seems to be- Just pick a colour and buy it. Don't think about it- Do it.


Edit=== Just re read your postings and you are not thinking about buying. Just my enthusiasm reading what I want into DG's posting
DG- BIKES AT GOOD PRICES- and the possibility of DG making up his mind. Just wishfull thinking on my part.
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Old 08-27-06, 03:28 AM   #22
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If I had a congregation full of cyclists, I could preach a pretty good sermon titled "New Bicycle Lust." I'll get back to you on what scripture lesson I would use.
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Old 08-27-06, 07:17 AM   #23
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Are you familiar with the parable of the vineyard? Maybe the price on the 2007 model was too low.
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Old 08-27-06, 09:05 AM   #24
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An interesting situation. I suggest that the real question here is the level, and perhaps intent, of deception. Would a novice be anymore "informed" simply knowing the difference between model years? Probably not. If there was a significant difference in materials, build, performance, then the dealer should be willing to explain these differences to a prospective buyer. Forty years ago I remember being in a sporting goods store when a man took a fishing reel up to the store's owner and said he liked the fishing reel, but would the owner come down a few dollars. The owner took the reel from the guy and replied that he had priced the item fairly, and the the man was welcome to shop elsewhere if he did not like the prices in his shop. I think those days are long gone in the USA. If the LBS owner had not offered the older model year bike at 20% off instead of 10% would that have made the situation better or worse? Was it really deception to list all three bikes at the same price? I don't know. There's a part of me that thinks business folks can set the prices they want, and I can shop elsewhere. I mean often I see new old stock listed at higher prices than they would have brought originally. As I said, interesting situation.
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Old 08-27-06, 09:56 AM   #25
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I think a seller can ask whatever they want for something; but the item is only worth whatever a buyer will pay for it. M.S.R.P. means absoutly nothing. Buyers must be informed or they can be taken advantage of by sellers and if they are informed they can find great deals. I see nothing wrong with what that store was trying to do and I see nothing wrong with them offering you a discount when you showed yourself to be so informed. They found someone who had a keen intrest in a product that they had sitting around taking up valuable space and tried to move it by offering a deal.
Having said all this; when it comes to purchasing bicycles I: 1.) find a good mechanic 2.) buy my bikes from that mechanic (or the store they work at). I may pay a little more; but that mechanic will always take good care of that bike.
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