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Old 08-31-06, 10:56 AM   #1
will dehne
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Non Biking exercise question

This is directed at a biker who puts on a lot of miles and can say "Been there, done that".
I started weight bearing exercise some months ago. The upper body exercise showed positive results. Part of the routine is knee bend and lifting the body with the legs only, similar to what weight lifters do.
To my surprise I am finding that I have a tough time with that. My biking legs are measurably getting better but these knee bends are not easy at all. I am out of breath after ten or so and had to pace what I do.
My question: Is this common for bikers who do a lot of miles? I think I will do 10,000 miles this year.
I read that Lance and others avoid using stairs.
Next question: Should I cool it or slowly get into it to strengthen the appropriate muscles?

Please do not tell me to see a Doctor. Done that. Says I have arthritis in both knees. Does not bother my biking.
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Old 08-31-06, 11:25 AM   #2
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another alternative is to check with your Dr. to see if you can do a weight program @ a gym with leg presses, light weight high repetitions, and bending the leg only to a 45 degree angle with the presses.
the knee bends in my opinion are putting stress on the knee joints, leg presses will also but you have more support with your back and the amount of stress on the knees and legs by using a leg press sled machine.
the angulation of deep knee bends will use different muscle groups especially in your back and glutes. I would go and talk to a personal trainer at a gym and see what kind of program would behoove you.
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Old 08-31-06, 12:36 PM   #3
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Are you doing squats with no weight, Is that what I am understanding?
Squats are using such large muscle groups in your legs and you are still lifting your body weight that they really become a cardio workout. Wear your heart rate monitor one day and see what 10-15 good squats will do to your HR. Very similar to pushups where you become very winded after doing a set as opposed to bench press that your HR does not go as high. If you want to work on leg strength then isolate the muscles with other excersizes like seated leg extensions. Your quads will start burning before your HR even begins to move.
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Old 08-31-06, 12:48 PM   #4
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squats can to much stress on your joints, back and internal organs unless it is being done the way will dehene is. he seems to be doing more like an isometric type exercise.
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Old 08-31-06, 07:08 PM   #5
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Yeah, i don't get it. You say you're all LDX, that you want to DO weights, and a doctor says you have arthritus, and now you ask "what's up, with that?"

C'mon, give us a clue, where you goin' with this nutty post? What other "surprises" are you going to share?
Are we supposed to argue with your doctor or tell you to increase your squat weight and reps?
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Old 08-31-06, 08:29 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Richard Cranium
Yeah, i don't get it. You say you're all LDX, that you want to DO weights, and a doctor says you have arthritus, and now you ask "what's up, with that?"

C'mon, give us a clue, where you goin' with this nutty post? What other "surprises" are you going to share?
Are we supposed to argue with your doctor or tell you to increase your squat weight and reps?

No, RC, it's not "we"; it's you who are supposed to shut your yap and behave in a considerate, rational manner that makes you fit company for the rest of us at BF50 who want to examine ways of questioning and exceeding limitations when possible.

I perhaps foolishly suspect that you are mostly human beneath that misanthropic crust. We should have coffee sometime. I'd get some big Karma points and Mother Theresa would be proud of me. I'm sure I'll end up getting the check.
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Old 08-31-06, 09:26 PM   #7
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not biting....
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Old 08-31-06, 09:32 PM   #8
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not biting....
I, OTOH, like to bite RC whenever possible. Vents the spleen in times of nuclear proliferation, global warming, etc. RC serves a worthwhile purpose here-- sort of site jester. Cuffing his ears is bracing and will make a new man of you. Relieve some of that cross chaining anxiety, Dauphin. I recommend it.

Besides, I'm not sure RC isn't really Big Paulie in yet another identity.
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Old 09-01-06, 04:50 AM   #9
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Besides, I'm not sure RC isn't really Big Paulie in yet another identity.
I can 100% guarantee you that he isn't.
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Old 09-01-06, 08:05 AM   #10
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In response to OP querry. I suspect many cyclist would experience a similar thing. When doing the kind of squats you describe you're using more than just your leg muscles. You're also using your lower back and core muscles. Remember that cycling requires a limited range of motion for your legs, and your body weight is supported via your seat and hands on the bars. Hence, feeling a bit winded while your body acclimates to the new exercise does not seem out of line to me. Most cyclist, self included, could stand to do more core strength work, and many would benefit from upper body work too. Muscles have a tendancy to need balance... you can only get so strong in one area with no improvements unless you strengthen the other areas as well. Just as you did when you started cycling, pacing is a good thing in your overall development.
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Old 09-01-06, 08:55 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by NOS88
In response to OP querry. I suspect many cyclist would experience a similar thing. Just as you did when you started cycling, pacing is a good thing in your overall development.
I think this issue is important enough to share some more information.
I switched from jogging to biking about 15 years ago. I did a lot of biking. (5000 miles/annual ++)
During the winter months I had to find another form of exercise. So I used a trainer. Some years later I decided to do fast walking at 4 MPH for 12-16 miles on pavement with state of the arts cushioned shoes.
To my surprise I could barely walk after I got done. Pain in my foot ankles.
Well, I kept at it and eventually it went away. To me that means that just biking is not good enough. I have to also do other exercise to keep fit.
Now relate this story to my question about squats. And I had a similar experience with my shoulder.
My opinion is that inactivity is very bad.
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Old 09-01-06, 08:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenal0
Are you doing squats with no weight, Is that what I am understanding?
Squats are using such large muscle groups in your legs and you are still lifting your body weight that they really become a cardio workout. Wear your heart rate monitor one day and see what 10-15 good squats will do to your HR. Very similar to pushups where you become very winded after doing a set as opposed to bench press that your HR does not go as high. If you want to work on leg strength then isolate the muscles with other excersizes like seated leg extensions. Your quads will start burning before your HR even begins to move.
Kenal0

I can attest to this. I was doing personal trainer with a partner who was a professional dancer. I was rather intimidated. The trainer had us doing squats without weight in rapid succession and we were up at around 30 squats. I noticed the other guy was starting to look a bit ragged and being the road rider I am, I naturally upped the pace to drop him. Is NO MERCY what cycling has taught me? He struggled to keep up but after several more reps, his eyes rolled back in his head and he collapsed unconscious. It was just a bit of transient hypoxia and he was fine. But it does give you an idea of how demanding squats are to one's aerobic capacity.
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Old 09-01-06, 09:06 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat
I can attest to this. I was doing personal trainer with a partner who was a professional dancer. I was rather intimidated. The trainer had us doing squats without weight in rapid succession and we were up at around 30 squats. I noticed the other guy was starting to look a bit ragged and being the road rider I am, I naturally upped the pace to drop him. Is NO MERCY what cycling has taught me? He struggled to keep up but after several more reps, his eyes rolled back in his head and he collapsed unconscious. It was just a bit of transient hypoxia and he was fine. But it does give you an idea of how demanding squats are to one's aerobic capacity.
Well, this is why I asked this forum, for information such as this. Thanks.
And there are people like RC.
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Old 09-02-06, 12:27 PM   #14
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Will

I had a knee problem for years and biking has helped it considerably. I may not have done your big ride- but I do my one day event each year in summer and I start around Christmas down the gym. Mainly to get that extra fitness on the body but I do some weight training on the legs, juist to improve them. The muscles that effect my knees are the quads. Initially I take it gentle on any weight that is going to affect the knees and the quads, but over the space of about 4 months, I find that the knees do not ache at all and the quad muscles are really showing on the legs. On top of that the weight that was nominal at christamas has got to something respectable- even with the poseurs down the gym.

As to doing squats- Good aerobic exercise but that does hurt my knees. That is until I get nearer to my ride and the legs have been strengthened.
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Old 09-02-06, 04:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stapfam
Will

I had a knee problem for years and biking has helped it considerably. Mainly to get that extra fitness on the body but I do some weight training on the legs, just to improve them. The muscles that effect my knees are the quads. Initially I take it gentle on any weight that is going to affect the knees and the quads, but over the space of about 4 months, I find that the knees do not ache at all and the quad muscles are really showing on the legs. On top of that the weight that was nominal at christamas has got to something respectable- even with the poseurs down the gym.

As to doing squats- Good aerobic exercise but that does hurt my knees. That is until I get nearer to my ride and the legs have been strengthened.
Stapfam:
OK, I understand your post. As I said on the other BF , my wife is involved in this discussion. She does squats at Curves to shape certain parts of her body. She complained about the same thing I posted. I promised to check with my buddies on BF and got this broadside from RC.
In short, squats may not be good for knees but do some good for the shape of your rear-end. Is it not nice that some 65 year olds worry about the shape of their a*s?
I am sure RC will have a field day with this if he reads it.
Anyway, here is what I will do: I will take it easy with squats (and tell my wife to do the same).
I will wear a HRM and see why I am huffing and puffing doing it.
In the meantime, I am visiting my Son near Dayton, Ohio. They have this fabulous trail and I did a fast 100 miles today in the rain. My son said that I looked like a little kid when I came back to his house from this ride.
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Old 09-03-06, 08:32 AM   #16
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I am sure RC will have a field day with this if he reads it
I skimmed, the rest of the crap in this thread.

No one seemed to pick up on the fact that you say "doctor diagnosed you with joint disease of the knees."
Hey, there's no reasoning with goofy people. Obviously whatever your goals, they are more important than the long-term health of your knee joints.

As, I've stated repeatedly, these boards consistently "spring forth" with totally ignorant bantor -I'm so glad I'm able to contribute. Good for you, your "ankle" problems, your knees, your "shoulder" thing, geeesh, go on with it and get with the hurting.... you've got "expert forum advice."
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Old 09-03-06, 10:53 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by CrossChain
I'm not sure RC isn't really Big Paulie in yet another identity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DnvrFox
I can 100% guarantee you that he isn't.
Thank you, DnvrFox.
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Old 09-03-06, 11:03 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by CrossChain I'm not sure RC isn't really Big Paulie in yet another identity.

Originally Posted by DnvrFox I can 100% guarantee you that he isn't.

Originally posted by Big Paulie Thank you, DnvrFox.

--------------------------------------------


A poor joke Paulie....my apologies. Any resemblance living or otherwise is not not there.
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Old 09-03-06, 12:07 PM   #19
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A poor joke Paulie....my apologies. Any resemblance living or otherwise is not not there.
Whew! I was worried you were serious!
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Old 09-03-06, 04:16 PM   #20
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I skimmed, the rest of the crap in this thread.

No one seemed to pick up on the fact that you say "doctor diagnosed you with joint disease of the knees."
Hey, there's no reasoning with goofy people. Obviously whatever your goals, they are more important than the long-term health of your knee joints.

As, I've stated repeatedly, these boards consistently "spring forth" with totally ignorant bantor -I'm so glad I'm able to contribute. Good for you, your "ankle" problems, your knees, your "shoulder" thing, geeesh, go on with it and get with the hurting.... you've got "expert forum advice."
You are an intresting case.
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Old 09-03-06, 04:48 PM   #21
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You are an intresting case.
And you, Will Dehne, are a patient, understated fellow.
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Old 09-03-06, 05:17 PM   #22
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What is your goal? If your goal is to ride 10K miles a year or ride across the US all you need to do is ride a lot. If your goal is to stay with cyclists half your age then you need to do specific training.

I have been riding for awhile. Except for the few years I was interested in racing.I have always mixed the cycling with other activities like rowing, hiking and cross country skiing. That has helped develop the upper body muscles while still keeping the muscles associated with cycling in tone and limber.
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Old 09-03-06, 08:41 PM   #23
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What is your goal? If your goal is to ride 10K miles a year or ride across the US all you need to do is ride a lot. If your goal is to stay with cyclists half your age then you need to do specific training.

I have been riding for awhile. Except for the few years I was interested in racing.I have always mixed the cycling with other activities like rowing, hiking and cross country skiing. That has helped develop the upper body muscles while still keeping the muscles associated with cycling in tone and limber.
Your question is very valid and I will answer in detail.
Goal #1) Maintain health as I am getting near retirement. Health means full body health and good mental health. I am in an extreme stress environment at work. The American Automotive Supplier Companies. I use lots of exercise to counteract that. It seems to be working.
Goal #2) I had a lot of fun and success at a XC trip. Probably a high point in my life. I wish to duplicate it soon with a few improvements. I was approximately in the top 6 bikers out of over 30. I would like to do better regardless of my age.
Goal #3) I often bike in Detroit Metro Parks with very professional bikers. I like to improve my standings with them, regardless my age.
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Old 09-03-06, 09:03 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by will dehne
Your question is very valid and I will answer in detail.
Goal #1) Maintain health as I am getting near retirement. Health means full body health and good mental health. I am in an extreme stress environment at work. The American Automotive Supplier Companies. I use lots of exercise to counteract that. It seems to be working.
As I'm sure you already knew, biking is not a weight bearing activity. If the goal is to maintain health, you do need to mix it up. I do functional circuit training (think situps, pushups, etc with balance work at a pace to keep your heart rate up) and some jogging. But then again, I don't bike nearly as many miles as you.

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Old 09-03-06, 09:47 PM   #25
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Form is crucial in squats. Do it with a mirror _at_your_side_ (either side). Push your keister way back and begin to descend. BE CERTAIN THAT YOUR KNEES MOVE NO FURTHER FORWARD THAN YOUR TOES. With that in mind you should see how far back to push the keister. Gee, I like saying keister.

Fearless prediction: you will have knee pain if your knees move forward of your toes.

Nothing has helped my climbing as much as squats.
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