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  1. #1
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    That weight loss thing?

    Ok - I do not have a weight problem- but I read a very interesting article today about weight loss whilst exercising. By going out out hammering a ride- pushing yourself to the limit and doing lots of high milage does not work.

    The way to burn off fat is to put the heart rate in the correct zone to burn fat instead of energy.
    Find your maximum heart rate and your resting HR. In my case that is max 165 and resting of 70- difference of those is 95. The best heart rate for burning fat is at 65 to 80% of the difference so for me- My fat burning heart rate is between 132( 70 + 65% of 95) and 146 (70+ 80% of 95). Thats good as I like to ride between 140 and 145.

    If you go above the upper limit your body changes from burning fat to burning energy (Muscle Glycogen) which is stored in the muscles. You need plenty of Oxygen to to burn off the fat so the bottom line is- if you are getting breathless- you will not be burning fat.

    Now in the same magazine- It recommends that we reverse our normal eating process for rides. Normally we eat to build up energy for a ride and they recommend differently. Go for a ride and then pig out- Longer the ride- more you can pig out. The suggestion is a 4 hour ride in which you will burn off 1800 calories. Then you can have a Steak and kidney pie, Mash and gravy= 1280 calories and a couple of pints of Guinness= 420 calories. Net loss on the ride= 100 calories.

    Sounds good to me- providing the pig out is a breakfast halfway on the ride, and instead of the Guinness- a good slice of pie at the end.
    Last edited by stapfam; 10-03-06 at 02:40 PM.
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  2. #2
    genec genec's Avatar
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    This explains a lot... I have never been able to lose weight by exercising... in fact I have gotten heavier each time I try.

    If on the other hand I simply diet, I can lose weight.

    Exercise is good for the heart, but doesn't keep the weight off.

  3. #3
    The Improbable Bulk Little Darwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec
    This explains a lot... I have never been able to lose weight by exercising... in fact I have gotten heavier each time I try.

    If on the other hand I simply diet, I can lose weight.

    Exercise is good for the heart, but doesn't keep the weight off.
    I think you missed one of the side points... vigorous exercise won't work, but moderate aerobic exercise will.
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  4. #4
    SSP
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    Quote Originally Posted by stapfam
    Ok - I do not have a weight problem- but I read a very interesting article today about weight loss whilst exercising. By going out out hammering a ride- pushing yourself to the limit and doing lots of high milage does not work.

    The way to burn off fat is to put the heart rate in the correct zone to burn fat instead of energy.
    Find your maximum heart rate and your resting HR. In my case that is max 165 and resting of 70- difference of those is 95. The best heart rate for burning fat is at 65 to 80% of the difference so for me- My fat burning heart rate is between 132( 70 + 65% of 95) and 146 (70+ 80% of 95). Thats good as I like to ride between 140 and 145.

    If you go above the upper limit your body changes from burning fat to burning energy (Muscle Glycogen) which is stored in the muscles. You need plenty of Oxygen to to burn off the fat so the bottom line is- if you are getting breathless- you will not be burning fat.

    Now in the same magazine- It recommends that we reverse our normal eating process for rides. Normally we eat to build up energy for a ride and they recommend differently. Go for a ride and then pig out- Longer the ride- more you can pig out. The suggestion is a 4 hour ride in which you will burn off 1800 calories. Then you can have a Steak and kidney pie, Mash and gravy= 1280 calories and a couple of pints of Guinness= 420 calories. Net loss on the ride= 100 calories.

    Sounds good to me- providing the pig out is a breakfast halfway on the ride, and instead of the Guinness- a good slice of pie at the end.
    That contradicts everything I've read about weight loss...the so-called "aerobic fat-burning zone" is a myth. For weight loss, it doesn't matter if you're burning fat or carbs. It's all about calories burned vs. calories consumed. When you ride at a low level of intensity, you're burning less calories per hour than if you were riding at a higher level of intensity...thus, you'll lose weight more slowly because you're not burning as many calories.

    As for "pigging out" after a ride...that's just insane. I can't tell you how many cyclists I've talked to who say "I ride my bike 150 miles per week but can't lose a pound". Mostly it's because they use their cycling to justify "pigging out".

    It's really easy to subvert a good exercise program with a few poor food choices each week, and intentionally "pigging out" is a really good way to keep the fat on. I demonstrated this myself on one of my first weeklong Bicycle Tour of Colorado vacations - despite riding over 400 miles, with nearly 35,000 feet of climbing, I gained weight over the course of the week! It's because I was using the hard cycling to justify 4 meals per day, and a couple of beers each night.
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  5. #5
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    This isn't exactly news...it's been recognized for at least 20 years that strenuous short-term exercise draws from different energy stores than longer, more moderate exercise. I don't remember the details (it's been a long time since I read about it), but every exercise and serious (as opposed to fad) weight loss story I've read in years has made that point.
    One problem for a lot of males is that this goes against the grain of the macho mystique or something--we want quick results, by God--it took us 10 years to gain 20 pounds, but if we don't take it off in 10 days, we get frustrated. And we're MEN, so we have no patience with sissy exercises like walking or riding at 10mph--we go hard for 15 minutes, get tired, quit, weigh ourselves, don't see any difference and decide exercise and diets don't work.
    FWIW, two years ago I lost almost 50 pounds with a very moderate diet and 7000-10,000 calories of moderate, fairly easy exercise per week. When I stopped doing the exercise, the weight began to come back, and when I started again, it dropped back.

  6. #6
    Papa Wheelie Sigurdd50's Avatar
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    I am 51 1/2 years old
    not over weight... by much... but at 5'10, I was up to 185, and had been slender all my life (165 would make me happy again)
    When I started to bike commute regularly (17 miles round trip over relatively flat terraiin with a couple modest hills) I started to see weight moving down ... about 8-10 pounds over a 6-8 month period... of fairly regular (not daily) commuting. Each way it takes about 35 minutes... and I keep a good pace (12-14 mph). So... 2 x 35 minutes a day, 2-4 days a week.

    This is key... regular pace, regular exercise. Yogurt and granola for breakfast... and don't pig out (cept for some Friday brews!)

    If I get busy (having to drive due to errands) the weight returns.
    This year I am going to bike the bullet and try to commute as much as possible in nasty weather... so activity is year round.

  7. #7
    Third World Layabout crtreedude's Avatar
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    I have done different types of excercise in my life - from rock climbing to just walking. Time and getting the heart moving is everything.

    I like to shoot for between 30 minutes to 1 hour at a time, or more. it is more important to excercise for long periods at a reasonable rate, than hammer it for a short period of time. Hammering is good for building power, but not for burning calories.

    Currently my commute is about 30 minutes in the morning, about 50 minutes in the evening - lots of good calories are burned. I like to maintain a comfortable pace - which for me on rock is about 14 MPH. On the road I can get closer to 18. But, if it isn't comfortable and fun, I back down.

    Even though rock climbing is an intense workout - I never lost a lb doing it - except from the motivation to lose weight!

  8. #8
    Third World Layabout crtreedude's Avatar
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    Oh, just to show that people are different - I can't lose weight just dieting - but give me a bike and the weight just melts off.

    I notice a lot of the daily commuters lose weight - I figure I might be burning 1,000 calories a day extra. All I have to do is not eat a lot extra and I will drop one or two lbs a week.

  9. #9
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    the way my lbs owner described it: take LSD.
    Long, Slow, Distance

    Worked for me, I was gaining weight with my riding until I adjusted my riding style (LSD) and my diet (more protein, less carbs)

  10. #10
    Senior Member DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSP
    That contradicts everything I've read about weight loss...the so-called "aerobic fat-burning zone" is a myth. For weight loss, it doesn't matter if you're burning fat or carbs. It's all about calories burned vs. calories consumed. When you ride at a low level of intensity, you're burning less calories per hour than if you were riding at a higher level of intensity...thus, you'll lose weight more slowly because you're not burning as many calories.

    As for "pigging out" after a ride...that's just insane. I can't tell you how many cyclists I've talked to who say "I ride my bike 150 miles per week but can't lose a pound". Mostly it's because they use their cycling to justify "pigging out".

    It's really easy to subvert a good exercise program with a few poor food choices each week, and intentionally "pigging out" is a really good way to keep the fat on. I demonstrated this myself on one of my first weeklong Bicycle Tour of Colorado vacations - despite riding over 400 miles, with nearly 35,000 feet of climbing, I gained weight over the course of the week! It's because I was using the hard cycling to justify 4 meals per day, and a couple of beers each night.
    Finally SSP and I agree.

    Calories in vs calories used.

    In the end, they all use the same energy. If you draw from glycogen while exercising intensely, then that glycogen will eventually be replaced by body fat being used up.

    This so-called "fat burning zone" is a justification and perhaps a motivator to get folks moving and doing things who are not doing anything at all.

    It helps them not be scared of the kind of intense exercise that most of us do regularly. It is propaganda, pure and simple.

    And SSP is right. Without a careful food plan, it is all to naught.

  11. #11
    SSP
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    Quote Originally Posted by DnvrFox
    Finally SSP and I agree.

    Calories in vs calories used.

    In the end, they all use the same energy. If you draw from glycogen while exercising intensely, then that glycogen will eventually be replaced by body fat being used up.

    This so-called "fat burning zone" is a justification and perhaps a motivator to get folks moving and doing things who are not doing anything at all.

    It helps them not be scared of the kind of intense exercise that most of us do regularly. It is propaganda, pure and simple.

    And SSP is right. Without a careful food plan, it is all to naught.
    Thanks, Denver.

    Since most of us are limited in the time we can devote to exercise, the rule of thumb is:

    If you can't go long, go hard (double and triple entendres intended )
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  12. #12
    Seņor Wences jwbnyc's Avatar
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    Here's the thing.

    I'm 52. I've been fairly active my whole life. I'm not overweight. I *do* have this spare tire though. It's not too big, but it is there. Some of the guys I work with, who ride, keep wondering why it's still there. Well, they give me a hard time about it anyway. They are all at least Ten Years younger than I am, of course.

    I did too for a time.

    I just figure that even biking 30 Miles a Day is just not enough exercise to get those washboard abs to come back.

    The muscles are still there to some extent. I just don't have the definition I once did. Certainly, I've lost some strength over the Years. And reflexes.. and speed. This is getting depressing.

    I know that if I got back into Soccer (football), like that is going to happen, it would hurt like Hell for a while, but I would definitely burn off the small amount of fat that just sits there, around my waist. My knees might not even be up to it at this point.

    I'm don't think I'll worry about it too much.

  13. #13
    SSP
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwbnyc
    Here's the thing.

    I'm 52. I've been fairly active my whole life. I'm not overweight. I *do* have this spare tire though. It's not too big, but it is there. Some of the guys I work with, who ride, keep wondering why it's still there. Well, they give me a hard time about it anyway. They are all at least Ten Years younger than I am, of course.

    I did too for a time.

    I just figure that even biking 30 Miles a Day is just not enough exercise to get those washboard abs to come back.

    The muscles are still there to some extent. I just don't have the definition I once did. Certainly, I've lost some strength over the Years. And reflexes.. and speed. This is getting depressing.

    I know that if I got back into Soccer (football), like that is going to happen, it would hurt like Hell for a while, but I would definitely burn off the small amount of fat that just sits there, around my waist.

    I'm don't think I'll worry about it too much.

    If you have a noticeable spare tire, it's likely you are, in fact, "overweight".

    Ab workouts won't reduce your spare tire...they'll just build your ab muscles. Your spare tire is just your body's way of storing excess fat. Most men tend to store their excess fat around the waist, unlike women who tend to store it on their hips.

    FWIW, visceral fat has been associated with many negative health indicators...losing the fat via exercise and/or diet is a good idea. Since your exercise program is already in place (cycling 30 miles/day), you need to look to your diet...finding a way to cut out a few hundred calories each day will eventually whittle down that spare tire.
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  14. #14
    Ain't Easy Being Cheesy CheeseLouise's Avatar
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    Hello,

    I just can't help but put in my "TWO CENTS"

    Most of you know I had gastric bypass surgery. Now, most would think that my main reason for doing this surgery was the weight. Well yes, but no. My main reason was the diabetes. See if you are diabetic (type II in my case) you do not lose weight like non-diabetic people. Plainly put, your endocrine system does not function right and does not know what to do with sugar, nutrients and fats. Being diabetic sets off a vicious loop of events in your body that defeats your efforts to lose weight. In my case my sugars would actually go real high when I exercised. When that happened I had no energy and would have to stop. My heart rate would also go very high due to the weight and the excess blood sugars. It was next to impossible for me to get any sort of a work out and stay in that "fat burning" heart rate zone. I was actually putting on weight, despite the medical supervised diets I had been on for over a year.

    So weight loss isn't as simple as calories in/calories burned, at least for some of us. I am no doctor but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

    Linda

    PS, I no longer have diabetes and have lost 73 lbs in 3 months. I can ride at an average speed of 19+ mph and have not felt this good in years. Getting older, wiser and thinner is GREAT! But it ain't easy being cheesy!
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  15. #15
    Senior Member DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseLouise
    Hello,

    I just can't help but put in my "TWO CENTS"

    Most of you know I had gastric bypass surgery. Now, most would think that my main reason for doing this surgery was the weight. Well yes, but no. My main reason was the diabetes. See if you are diabetic (type II in my case) you do not lose weight like non-diabetic people. Plainly put, your endocrine system does not function right and does not know what to do with sugar, nutrients and fats. Being diabetic sets off a vicious loop of events in your body that defeats your efforts to lose weight. In my case my sugars would actually go real high when I exercised. When that happened I had no energy and would have to stop. My heart rate would also go very high due to the weight and the excess blood sugars. It was next to impossible for me to get any sort of a work out and stay in that "fat burning" heart rate zone. I was actually putting on weight, despite the medical supervised diets I had been on for over a year.

    So weight loss isn't as simple as calories in/calories burned, at least for some of us. I am no doctor but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

    Linda

    PS, I no longer have diabetes and have lost 73 lbs in 3 months. I can ride at an average speed of 19+ mph and have not felt this good in years. Getting older, wiser and thinner is GREAT! But it ain't easy being cheesy!
    Isn't the net effect of the gastric bypass surgery less calories ingested and/or digested? Calories in (utilized) vs calories burned?

  16. #16
    On the road again! seafoam's Avatar
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    During the month or so that I haven't been able to cycle due to my knee, I started really noticing my weight beginning to shift - and not in a good way! Normally I teach Pilates 5 times per week, and do the workout with my class. The last month I've been "talking them through". The problem is that I continued to eat as though I was exercising. Thinking about it, though, I wasn't as hungry as when I was exercising by any stretch of the imagination -- but I'm not one of those people who loses their appetite when they have the blues. Definitely a stress eater. I've been missing all those good endorphins!

    Back to Pilates and working up my cycling mileage. All is becoming well again.
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  17. #17
    Ain't Easy Being Cheesy CheeseLouise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DnvrFox
    Isn't the net effect of the gastric bypass surgery less calories ingested and/or digested? Calories in (utilized) vs calories burned?
    Yes, that is true, but it is the bypass part of the surgery,the first five feet of intestine from your stomach)that is bypassed) that corrects the diabetes. This is the portion of your intestine that absorbs most of the sugars, calories, fats and all that other good stuff, thus the diebetes is corrected. Gastric Bypass is 98% effective in eliminating Type II Diabetes. Forme I can still eat about 1000 calories a day. Just had Chili, cheese and crackers. Yummy!

    If you do a little research on the effects of diabetes on weight loss/gain, energy and the general health of you endocrine system. Combine that research wiht a modern day Rouex-en-Y Gastric Bypass and you wilbegint o see the havoc diabetes hason your health and ability to lose weight.

    Scarry stuff!

    Linda
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  18. #18
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    I read somewhere (maybe at 53x12.com, or maybe at slowtwitch, this CRS is killing me) that riding with a high cadence, using the slow twitch muscles, burns fat. Mashing the pedals at a slower cadence, burns glycogen. So you want most of your ride to be just as described by the OP, saving the glycogen for a sprint at the end. These guys at these sites support the OPs info also and I am like Will Rogers, all I know is what I read in the papers. My experience has been that riding a high cadence (90 - 100) on some nice rides with a few climbs (12% for a .5 to 1 mile) has helped me to lose about 15 pounds since the first of August. I know that is just anecdotal evidence, but it has been my anecdote. LOL.
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  19. #19
    Wheezing Geezer Bud Bent's Avatar
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    The only reason a harder workout isn't good for weight loss is that it usually makes you exercise for a shorter time, and time spent exercising is the real key for weight loss exercising. When they talk about the fat burning exercise level, they are talking about any exercising at that level or above. So, go ahead and enjoy some sprinting and riding hard, but not to the point that it makes you ride fewer hours.
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    They told me it's ok to post mileage over in the commuting forum, so you'll probably find me there these days.

  20. #20
    SSP
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    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseLouise
    Yes, that is true, but it is the bypass part of the surgery,the first five feet of intestine from your stomach)that is bypassed) that corrects the diabetes. This is the portion of your intestine that absorbs most of the sugars, calories, fats and all that other good stuff, thus the diebetes is corrected. Gastric Bypass is 98% effective in eliminating Type II Diabetes. Forme I can still eat about 1000 calories a day. Just had Chili, cheese and crackers. Yummy!

    If you do a little research on the effects of diabetes on weight loss/gain, energy and the general health of you endocrine system. Combine that research wiht a modern day Rouex-en-Y Gastric Bypass and you wilbegint o see the havoc diabetes hason your health and ability to lose weight.

    Scarry stuff!

    Linda
    But wouldn't you have lost weight, and cured your diabetes, if you had been able to limit your food intake to 1000 calories per day instead of having the gastric bypass?
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  21. #21
    Cycling Anarchist Trsnrtr's Avatar
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    SSP and DnvrFox have the latest that I've heard. The old "fat burning zone" or LSD has been refuted in recent studies. Like Dnver said, it's still calories in vs. calories used. Riding fast burns lots of calories so riding time can be lower to attain the same weight loss effect.
    Dennis T

  22. #22
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    I"m still wondering how Stapfam could read that damn article while out hammering a hard ride? You got a book rack on that bike now? (grin)

  23. #23
    Ain't Easy Being Cheesy CheeseLouise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSP
    But wouldn't you have lost weight, and cured your diabetes, if you had been able to limit your food intake to 1000 calories per day instead of having the gastric bypass?
    Nope, did that limited calorie diet and tried medications to lose weight, Dr. supervised too, for over a year. Oh sure, I lost weight to start with but then as my body/endocrine adjusted to the calorie intake I started to put the weight back on. I lost 70 lbs to start with and managed to put back on 40 of the 70 I had lost. Of course this was diet number 999 of 1000.

    Medical conditions/comorbidities have a huge impact on a persons ability to lose and gain weight. Just as I could not lose weight because of the diabetes others may have a hard time maintaing weight becasue of diabetes or other medical conditions. Weight loss/gain really is different for each of us as our bodies are each unique. Just like there is no single solution for obesity/overweight that covers everybody. We all react different to exercise, food and our environment.

    If losing weight was as simple as restricting calories and exercising in the "fat burning zone" The world would sure be a lot lighter.

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  24. #24
    Ain't Easy Being Cheesy CheeseLouise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baggsy
    I"m still wondering how Stapfam could read that damn article while out hammering a hard ride? You got a book rack on that bike now? (grin)
    +1 Very good question!
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  25. #25
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
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    Milledgeville, Georgia
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    2014 Specialized Crave Pro 29, 2014 Specialized Crux EVO Carbon Disc, 2012 Black Mountain Cycles Monster Cross, 2011 Specialized Roubaix SL3 Expert Compact, 2009 Salsa Casseroll, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB
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    I don't know, but my 300 lb. Samoan lawyer assures me that LSD is the answer!

    I've read many articles over the years supporting the idea of prolonged medium intensity excercise as the best way to burn fat and lose weight. And I know that I lose more weight when I do a lot of long distance riding (and I never go really fast when I do that). But I'm certainly no expert. Maybe those of you who seem to react so angrily to this commonly held concept can share some references to support the contrary opinion.
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

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