europa

On a hill that is. Yes, I know that lunatics and the younguns climb until they're dead, or just ignore the fact that they're dead and keep climbing. But, being aged and sensible (okay, nuts and a youngun in this group), I know that to stop and pant is the better part of pain and agony.

However (there's always a 'however' isn't there) ...

I've got a heart rate monitor. Useful little thing though I wish it'd stop telling me my heart's working too hard.
I'm 50, 106kg (about 230 lb I think) - what you'd call 'cuddly'.
I am aquiring fitness ... I think ... rather being fit.
The old max heart rate formula (yes, I know it's flawed) says 220-age, which makes mine 170. Well, I regularly push my heart to 175 (and I'm still here to type about it) so I use 175 as my max.

When climbing a hill, I'm happy to watch my heart rate work in the 160's. When it stabilises in the 170's, I stop and let it calm down ... a lot - at that point, if I was young and silly, I could push on.

The question is, personal attitudes to pain and suffering aside (both of which I'm averse to), could I keep pushing on with my heart rate in the 170's? Am I being sensible by stopping once it gets into the 170's? The whole idea of cycling is to get me fit and to keep me fit, not to kill me.

Richard

lhbernhardt

You stop when the pedals stop going around. We had this heavy snowfall in Vancouver over the weekend. The first day or two though, the busier streets were still clear enough to ride. But some of the side streets were still packed with wet snow. I found that I could get up very gentle climbs on my fixie (42x16 gearing), but when the road kicked up, it would get bloody hard to keep the bike pointed in a straight line. I actually had to walk it up this snowy section. I was really annoyed.

Another way to look at it is: can you walk up faster than you are currently riding? This is why I don't like using gears that are too low, like where the front chainring is smaller than the rear cog (like a 30x34 combination). I figure you can walk faster than you can ride in that gear. Then the question becomes can you get enough traction wearing your cleats while your walking up the hill?

- L.

zonatandem

Why walk if you can ride?
My max heart rate at age 60 was 183; resting rate lo 50s (52). Have gotten it down to 49 once when I was 72 years old.
I do not use a heart monitor when riding. Am now 74, doing fine.
When my heart stops, I'll be dead . . .

dbg

At our ages it probably isn't so smart to push on through the pain like we maybe used to. But it's a tough habit to break. 10 years ago during my last two marathons I experienced a strange sensation a couple of times. I was pushing on through the pain and ignoring the accumulating oxygen debt when I suddenly felt comfortable. I knew I was exceeding my limit but the muscle pain and screaming desperation in my lungs suddenly ceased. It seemed like I could push on with minimal discomfort until all systems shut down. It scared the hell out of me. I still don't know what to make of it. Seemed ironic that a lack of pain is what scared me enough to stop.

BluesDawg

The only hill I ever recall stopping on was Brasstown Bald as my son and I climbed it last April to see the climactic stage of the Tour de Georgia. After a while it got to the point that my legs wouldn't turn the pedals and my chest was pounding so hard I was afraid it would bother other people. I must confess that I got off a few times and walked. That was not easy either. A couple of times I sat down and waited to regain some composure before continuing. I wore sneakers that day so I could walk. It still amazes me how relaxed Floyd and Tom looked as they came by us. Not to mention how Popo kept attacking!

My son has informed me that next year we will do it again and this time there will be no walking. I'd better do a lot of hill work between now and then.

Pat

I drove up Brasstown Bald a couple of years ago. The ranger at the station told me that the road hit a maximum of 28% which is pretty obscenely steep. A friend of mine who used to race told me about doing that climb. She was doing whilst seated and her wheel came up on her because her weight was too far back and she went over backwards ! She said the road was too steep to get started up again so she grabbed her bike and ran up the hill and even passed people . I think I could do that climb with the right gears but I sure as heck would not want to do that descent .

crtreedude 

Don't go gently into that long dark night
Old Legs should burn and rave at the heights
Rage, rage against the hills too high.

(Anyone want to go for verse two and following?)

Apologies to Dylan Thomas

I figure I will know I shouldn't have done something from the otherside.

I stop when I can't get enough air or I am going so slow that I am going to fall over - I love hills, the uglier the better. But, I have no issue with heart, high blood pressure, etc. And if you take medical advice from this group - well, it might not be the wisest thing you ever did. We all are different - with different circumstances. I am 47 years old (yeah, yeah, not yet a 50s but my hair is - so I figure it averages out) in excellent health with a VERY active lifestyle. For example, last week I rode to work about 80 kilometers in total over rocky roads, road horses for 4 hours and walked one of our fincas for about 2+ hours - and I felt I was a bit of a slug because I slept nearly all day Saturday because I was feeling a bit ill. So, to take advice from me might be a bit nuts unless you have a similar situation.

Ask your doctor how hard you should push it.

big john

I'm 52 and 210# and I never stop on a hill unless I get nausea, and this happens sometimes on hard climbing rides after 6 or 7 hours, especially if I haven't eaten right. I have never used a heart monitor, I think it's a training tool rather than a warning device. If you feel fine, it seems your heart is doing O.K. Ask your doctor if anaerobic training is right for you.

BluesDawg

Just for the record, we did not climb the final kilometer from the parking lot to the tower (it was closed except for race vehicles and walkers). That is the steepest section. But the rest is no picnic.

WillisB

I stop when the crank won't turn.

howsteepisit

I am 50 with a HR max of 193 or so. I decide before most rides what kind of HR I want for the ride. I accommodate this wistful thinking, I broke down and purchased true touring type gearing. I can pretty well regulate my HR from 130 on up. Gearing is a 48-38-36 front with 11-32 rear. But to answer the OPs question, as long as your DR says its OK going a max HR will not hurt you, but it will deplete glycogen a lot faster, putting you at risk for the dreaded bonk!

NoRacer

You're probably only at about 70-85% of max.

If you are "aquiring fitness", then likely your lactate threshold (LT) is low. The hydrogen ions produced at this point would cause your leg muscles to fatigue long before it causes any problems with your heart if you have no pre-existing cardio-vascular conditions. (did you get a doctor's blessings before undertaking moderate to vigorous exercise?)

Terex

Have you recently had a stress test? As other poster noted, you're probably not at your max heart rate. Maxing your HR for many 50+'ers - especially someone regaining fitness - may be a one time experience. As you increase your HR, monitor your discomfort (may be leg muscles, may be feeling like you're going to throw up, whatever). As your fitness increases, your level of discomfort for similar levels of work will decrease. As you are aware, the objective is gradual improvement - not distructive testing. You REALLY need to increase fitness incrementally, and make sure that your doc agrees (in general ) with your exercise program. You know the story about the old bull and the young bull - to paraphrase: An old bull and a young bull are sitting on their Trek SSL 6.9's at the bottom of a range of hills. The young bull says "Let's see how fast we can get to the top of this hill!". The old bull says "Let's maintain a HR just below lactate threshhold, and ride up all of them." Or something like that.

stapfam

Disagree with some over your Heart Rate. 175 is probably somewhere near your max.I am 59 and treat my max as 165. the fact that I can still reach 172 means that ocasionally I am being stupid as for me- 172 is get off the bike and lie down time- before I fall off.

Hills always have been my problem. They don't get any easier-just take less time to climb. One fault that newcomers have is that they charge at hills. I used to, till I found a method that works for me. Start of the hill and I put myself in the correct Front ring to finish the hill. It is harder to change front rings under pressure so I put myself in the correct ring right from the start. Then on the rear cassette I put myself in a sensible gear for the cadence I want to work at. If that means that I am in the smallest cog at the rear, and I have to slow down to get the cadence right- then I have not started the hill yet.
Then when it gets hard I change down, then down again and again and when I run out of gears and it is still hard- I slow down. Main thing that is going to govern my speed up the hill is my breathing. I try to keep it so that I am breathing hard, but I can just about talk to a rider beside me. Then nearer the top-I will put a bit of pressure in so--That- If I try to- talk to- the rider next- to me- I will be taking long breaths between every few words. Then I know I am somewhere near the limit, but just enough energy and legs and lungs to finish the hill.

Then there is the hill training. On my rides- I also have a few short sharp slopes. I ride the first part of these in a gear that is just a bit high. Then 200 yards before the end I start sprinting. I may not be able to keep sprinting at Max to the end- but I push as hard as I can. If there are no hills then I choose telegraph poles on a flat road. Sprint between 2 of them. Only do 2 or 3 of these sprints on a ride initially and do not do the 2nd or 3rd till you have recovered.That will be slowing down to recover but eventually you will find that you can do an "Interval" sprint every couple of miles.

Good luck with the hills- but hills are there for you to enjoy. Especially the downhill ones.

Now as to the heart rate on rides. I treat my max as 165 and like to ride at 140 to 145 as my working zone. I will push that to 150 on the hills and when it gets tough- then I will get near my 165.If I reach 165- Then I slow down and let the HR drop below 160 and keep it below that for the hill. In that way- The only time I walk hills is when I fall off the bike with lack of grip- and if it is that steep then it deserves to be walked.

Artmo 

I asked my cardiologist this same question. He said as long as I don't feel faint or have chest pains, it's OK for me to go to the max. However, I have had my heart fully checked out with stress test etc. I'm 66.

cyclezen

groovy!

Though wise men at their end know the ride is right,
Because spent legs no lightning do bring
Do not pedal gentle into that good height.

sorry, dylan, old man...

bump...

monk

Never stopped yet on a hill and don't have a clue as to what my heart rate is . . . guess I should get a monitor. I'll have to confess that where I ride there aren't any killer hills, but I have a 12-27 cassette so when I get on the 27 I can pretty much climb anything.

europa

Thanks for that. You've confirmend my thoughts, particularly stapfam.

Now, back to dem hills (but probably not today, they're predicting 38C, thunder storms and high winds)

Richard

Road Fan

Rage all you want, but watch out for the effect of pedalling slow on your fricking knees! NOTHING really hurts me anymore, except when I get caught uphill in too low a gear. Then I feel it for a few days!

My doc, after the imaging stress test, said I was clear to work out, but also said working at max HR can be damaging, and that there wasn't much benefit (for a beginner) in going much above LT, about 85%. Now increasing your LT IS important, but going to max HR is not the recommended way to do it, at least that follows from what my doc told me, and what trainers like Chris Carmichael and Joe Beer recommend in their books and articles.

As an aging and re-conditioning cyclist, I feel one of my major challenges is to balance the stresses on my body with the need to strengthen it. Excessive stressing can be damaging or at least painful, and I wanna cruise, not sit at home with ice bags on my knees.

Being a 50-plusser means YOU'RE NOT 25 ANYMORE!!! You can just rage to yourself and to your riding buddies while you watch your gearing, cadence, and HR. Intelligence and vigilance are our weapons against loss of raw strength and flexibility.

DO talk to your doctor!

Ken, a proud curmudgeon of 53.

Ken

Road Fan

Wise men manage and pace the fight
Use HR, indexing, gear freaking, and cadence
Pedal gently sweetly o'er all hills, e'en unto the threshold of the night.

I love this!

Thank you, Dylan for such a grand verse form!

I think Terex is on the right track!

Ken (now for some pie, wher'd the wife hide it ... )

quickKarl

i stop when i can see my friends behind me anymore..

Karl

Sandwarrior

If that formula is Flawed , what is the new one?

Bill

cruzMOKS

I think the formula is the 1st step in finding your personal max.

jibi

I ususally get off when I can't balance anymore, just before I fall off. But that means I have the wrong gearing not maxed out.

I only use the heart rate monitor on the turbo trainer, on a ride I find it a distraction.

The new formula for max heart, 208-(0.7*age) rate is used here

https://www.getrolling.com/orbit/hrcalculator.html

george

Artmo 

That formula works for me; 162 seems to be my actual max at age 66. I've hit it a few times