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Old 07-15-07, 01:59 PM   #1
momof4greatkids
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not Mr Helmet, but Mr Inapproriate

We had a Mr. Helmet situation in our club, and the guy was strongly encouraged not to come back, for his own sake and for the sake of others riding w/him.

Before we headed out on a 4 star (14+mph) ride, our Mr Helmet, I'll call him Mr. Inappropriate, asks me to check his blood pressure. He said he just checked it at Walmart, and it was 240/140. I said, sure I'll check it and if it's even remotely that high, you should not be riding. He said, "Oh forget it I was just kidding". He would not let me check his pressure and we proceeded to ride.

Not once, not twice, at least five times he rode up behind me and said "I like the view behind you Colleen, I mean, I really like the view". Ok, ya know, I can take a joke but he would not let up and after about the third time I was thinking he was really off the wall and making me feel uncomfortable. (the view is NOT that great, let me assure you)

At the end of the ride, he asks me (again) to check his blood pressure. It was sky high 230/140's. He then admitted his pressure really was 240/140 before the ride and he just didn't want me to tell him not to ride. I had an obligation to tell him he was being extremely foolish to go on a challenging ride (he's an inexpereinced, new rider) in hot weather knowing his blood pressure is out of control. I asked him to promise me to seek medical attention the next day, to which he agreed.

Then he joins us for pizza after and lies to the waitress to get a free order of cheese bread! After a 45 second conversation at dinner with Mr Inappropriate I realize he does not have all his oars in the water, if you know what I mean. His friend that brought him apologized for bringing him on a ride, and didn't really know how serious this guy's psych problems (apparently) are. He will not be invited back to ride as he poses a danger to himself and others. What if he had stroked out on a ride? It's a wonder he didn't.

Colleen
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Old 07-15-07, 02:12 PM   #2
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This raises a good question. Exactly how do bicycle clubs (a physical activity) establish minimum standards for riders medical conditions. If standards are established, how are they to be enforced and does the lack of standards leave the club open for any liability.
I think that having official standards would make it a lot easier to ask someone not to ride with the club "for official reasons". It sure beats "hey you........get out of here"

I hate the modern world.
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Old 07-15-07, 02:15 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momof4greatkids
Not once, not twice, at least five times he rode up behind me and said "I like the view behind you Colleen, I mean, I really like the view". Ok, ya know, I can take a joke but he would not let up and after about the third time I was thinking he was really off the wall and making me feel uncomfortable.
That's about the time you brake really hard, and while he's lying stunned in a heap by the side of the road, you say, "You're so right! Great view!"
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Old 07-15-07, 02:27 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by momof4greatkids
Then he joins us for pizza after and lies to the waitress to get a free order of cheese bread!
Colleen
What kind of lie does one need to tell to get a free order of cheese bread??? Sounds like he lies in just about every situation he's in.
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Old 07-15-07, 02:29 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by momof4greatkids
What if he had stroked out on a ride?

Colleen

Problem solved
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Old 07-15-07, 02:41 PM   #6
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What kind of lie does one need to tell to get a free order of cheese bread???
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Old 07-15-07, 02:49 PM   #7
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Refer him to the club on the other side of town, cheese bread and all
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Old 07-15-07, 03:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddmaxx
This raises a good question. Exactly how do bicycle clubs (a physical activity) establish minimum standards for riders medical conditions. If standards are established, how are they to be enforced and does the lack of standards leave the club open for any liability.
I think that having official standards would make it a lot easier to ask someone not to ride with the club "for official reasons". It sure beats "hey you........get out of here"

I hate the modern world.
I would hope most people have sense enough to know if they're physically capable of riding. But then again....this fellow evidently didn't. On one of my club rides we have a medical doctor who often joins us. This fellow is in terrible physical condition so I guess even those who should know better ignore the obvious.

Most clubs require riders to sign a roster releasing the club from any responsibility for injuries, etc. I would think medical conditions would be covered, too.
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Old 07-15-07, 03:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddmaxx
This raises a good question. Exactly how do bicycle clubs (a physical activity) establish minimum standards for riders medical conditions. If standards are established, how are they to be enforced and does the lack of standards leave the club open for any liability.
I think that having official standards would make it a lot easier to ask someone not to ride with the club "for official reasons". It sure beats "hey you........get out of here"

I hate the modern world.

I wouldn't want to try to establish standards like that. Most of the members of my club are well capable of deciding when someone needs advice or to be told that they are doing something that makes the rest of us uncomfortable.
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Old 07-15-07, 03:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momof4greatkids
Not once, not twice, at least five times he rode up behind me and said "I like the view behind you Colleen, I mean, I really like the view". Ok, ya know, I can take a joke but he would not let up and after about the third time I was thinking he was really off the wall and making me feel uncomfortable. (the view is NOT that great, let me assure you)


Colleen
Some people are just jerks!
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Old 07-15-07, 05:07 PM   #11
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With a BP that is twice mine, why is he eating all that milkfat and sodium?

As for his obvious lack of social skills, we need to come up with a good comeback, in case he comes back.
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Old 07-15-07, 05:16 PM   #12
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Generally you "play doctor" after the group ride and a few drinks.The man lacked finesse,and has a time management issue.
I wonder if WallMart offers a discount colonoscopy?
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Old 07-15-07, 05:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddmaxx
This raises a good question. Exactly how do bicycle clubs (a physical activity) establish minimum standards for riders medical conditions. If standards are established, how are they to be enforced and does the lack of standards leave the club open for any liability.
I think that having official standards would make it a lot easier to ask someone not to ride with the club "for official reasons". It sure beats "hey you........get out of here"

I hate the modern world.
I used to print a disclaimer on the map.

"There is no charge for this ride and no services are promised. In other words, I am going to ride this designated route and, if you choose, you are welcome to ride along at your own risk."

I don't do blood pressure either. Once you start doing something like that, where do you stop?
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Old 07-15-07, 06:27 PM   #14
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It's not perfect, but the pre-ride release helps. We have fashioned our after the League of American Cyclists . The club is also careful to keep its insurance up, again through LAB, I think. I led a ride today with a dozen cyclists (I'll post pictures later). No one balked at signing the release.
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Old 07-15-07, 07:03 PM   #15
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My doctor didn't think that riding a bike was enough exercise.
I have normal blood pressure, he just wanted me to get off my duff.

As far as that jerk, "may he never darken your frame or fenders again".
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Old 07-16-07, 01:34 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by momof4greatkidsNot once, not twice, at least five times he rode up behind me and said "I like the view behind you Colleen, I mean, I really like the view".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beverly
Some people are just jerks!
I must be getting really really old because when I find myself behind a female rider I usually pull up beside her and see if her conversation can be interesting. That is if she is willing to chat.
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Old 07-16-07, 05:53 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by momof4greatkidsNot once, not twice, at least five times he rode up behind me and said "I like the view behind you Colleen, I mean, I really like the view".


Posted by Wildwood:
I must be getting really really old because when I find myself behind a female rider I usually pull up beside her and see if her conversation can be interesting. That is if she is willing to chat.
There's nothing wrong with what you do I'm sure you don't keep making remarks like Mr. Inappropriate.
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Old 07-16-07, 06:27 AM   #18
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Mr. Helmet does something bizarre that physically injures jp173. jp173 says he won't ride with Mr. Helmet again, and posters chastise jp173.

Mr. Inapproriate says something obnoxious to momof4greatkids and posters announce Mr. Inapproriate is a jerk one shouldn't have to ride with.

Hmmmmm.

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Old 07-16-07, 07:00 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcs
Mr. Helmet does something bizarre that physically injures jp173. jp173 says he won't ride with Mr. Helmet again, and posters chastise jp173.

Mr. Inapproriate says something obnoxious to momof4greatkids and posters announce Mr. Inapproriate is a jerk one shouldn't have to ride with.

Hmmmmm.

TCS
Not actually an accurate summation.

1. Mr Inappropriate generates a club determination that he is not invited back to ride again. I would assume that should he show up on his own he will be informed of that.

2. Mr Helmet is publicly flayed in 2 separate posts. It does not appear that the club has made any determination as to his standing. ( he was allowed to ride a second time). Contrary to assumptions to the contrary, the original posters statements include "I do not want to teach him how to shift"....."Put that blackberry away before I take it away from you" and regarding another rider's difficulty with a bike "I do not want to mess with her brake cable"

Maybe I'm being over reactive but I sort of assume that group rides are a 2 way street with responsibility resting on the shoulders of all of the parties involved. Quite possibly this rider was a jerk. Certainly he was mistaken when He said he was in shape and would be ok when advice was given and refused. However the rest of the "damning evidence" consists of a "stupid helmet", a lack of knowledge of how to shift, or how to determine his bike was properly assembled or a choice of innappropriate clothing for the projected weather for that day. It does not appear from my perspective that the club did much to rectify this situation, for example the ride director on the infamous second ride was not even aware of the problems encountered on the first ride.

The primary differences are: Mr Inappropriate behaves in an insulting manner. Mr Helmet needs some help.

Yes I'm proud of helping out on the trail and yes sometimes that help is turned down..In the case of the latter its back on my bike and on my way........but.......those people have never appeared in these posts!
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Old 07-16-07, 08:19 AM   #20
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I think he should go to the doctor, like you said, one for his heart and one for his head.
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Old 07-16-07, 10:26 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by tcs
Mr. Helmet does something bizarre that physically injures jp173. jp173 says he won't ride with Mr. Helmet again, and posters chastise jp173.

Mr. Inapproriate says something obnoxious to momof4greatkids and posters announce Mr. Inapproriate is a jerk one shouldn't have to ride with.

Hmmmmm.

TCS
It's not what Mr Inappropriate said to me that makes him unwelcome, that 's ancillary to the fact that he has malignant hypertension, is aware of it and chooses to endanger himself by riding long and hard in really hot weather. That's what makes him "inappropriate"...the other just makes him an obnoxious jerk lacking in social skills. Heck if we kicked everyone out who met the latter criteria, who would be left???
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Old 07-16-07, 11:08 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by momof4greatkids
It's not what Mr Inappropriate said to me that makes him unwelcome, that 's ancillary to the fact that he has malignant hypertension, is aware of it and chooses to endanger himself by riding long and hard in really hot weather. That's what makes him "inappropriate"...the other just makes him an obnoxious jerk lacking in social skills. Heck if we kicked everyone out who met the latter criteria, who would be left???
I'm not at all sure I would be so generous about his commentary. Guys like that give the rest of us a bad name, and I have little sympathy for those who engage in sexual harassment on any level at all, workplace or otherwise. That sort of thing brings out my bad temper, sometimes quickly.
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Old 07-16-07, 11:13 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddmaxx
This raises a good question. Exactly how do bicycle clubs (a physical activity) establish minimum standards for riders medical conditions. If standards are established, how are they to be enforced and does the lack of standards leave the club open for any liability.
I think that having official standards would make it a lot easier to ask someone not to ride with the club "for official reasons". It sure beats "hey you........get out of here"

I hate the modern world.
Waivers and more waivers. Every club ride I have been on requires you to sign a large waiver when you join and a smaller waiver on each and every ride as part of the signup sheet. However, I would also think if someone came into the group with noticeable physical issues or if you found out about those issues and let them ride again you may be open to a negligence lawsuit.
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Old 07-16-07, 01:11 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Terrierman
I'm not at all sure I would be so generous about his commentary. Guys like that give the rest of us a bad name, and I have little sympathy for those who engage in sexual harassment on any level at all, workplace or otherwise. That sort of thing brings out my bad temper, sometimes quickly.
Overwhelmingly the men I ride with are super-polite and go out of their way to be gentlemanly, Mr Inappropriate is the exception to the rule. He's obviously got mental and physical health issues. It's tough to know how to deal w/someone like that, I surely don't want to say something that sets him off. He probably realizes that, though, and uses it to his advantage.

Baroque had a good idea for dealing w/him, brake hard and see what happens.

I wish I was quicker thinking on my feet (er....pedals) and could have come up w/a snappy comeback that doesn't involve causing anyone to fall off their bike
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Old 07-16-07, 01:23 PM   #25
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I wish I was quicker thinking on my feet (er....pedals) and could have come up w/a snappy comeback that doesn't involve causing anyone to fall off their bike
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