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-   -   Burghardt vs Dog in the TdF (http://www.bikeforums.net/fifty-plus-50/322792-burghardt-vs-dog-tdf.html)

Tom Bombadil 07-19-07 10:48 AM

Burghardt vs Dog in the TdF
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLNTuxFdvvg

Notice how the ultra light wheel, used in the climbing stages, just crumples upon impact.

BluesDawg 07-19-07 11:11 AM

Allow the former Course Marshal to step up on his soapbox for a moment.

People, please. For whatever reason you think it is a good idea to take your dog to a bicycle race, just don't do it. Nobody loves their dogs more than I do, but I would never put my dogs in such danger. That dog was very lucky to have only been hit by a nearly stopped rider. If a bike (or several bikes) hit him at speed, or if one of the many cars and motorcycles in the race caravan had hit him, he would be a dead dog. I don't care how well behaved your dog is, the risk is just too great to the dog and to the riders. Please don't bring your dog with you to a bicycle race.
There now. I feel better.

ttopaz 07-19-07 12:53 PM

Looks like cyclist wheel made of paper.

Yen 07-19-07 01:13 PM

Oh my gosh! It crumbled like foil! Is there any "interference" penalty for that, and/or is the rider reimbursed his time for falling and having to replace the bike? Is he just out of the race at that point through no fault of his own???

We are amazed that the spectators are allowed to stand so close to the riders and how they lean way out into the lanes to cheer them on without any apparent crowd control measures or more barriers in some areas.:eek:

BluesDawg 07-19-07 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yen (Post 4887008)
Oh my gosh! It crumbled like foil! Is there any "interference" penalty for that, and/or is the rider reimbursed his time for falling and having to replace the bike? Is he just out of the race at that point through no fault of his own???

We are amazed that the spectators are allowed to stand so close to the riders and how they lean way out into the lanes to cheer them on without any apparent crowd control measures or more barriers in some areas.:eek:

Either his team car or a neutral support gave him a new wheel (or spare bike) and he went on his merry way. It's all part of racing.
There is more crowd control than it appears, but a lot of it depends on the people practicing self restraint. There are usually some barriers at starts, finishes and maybe a few congested areas along the way. There's no way they could but barriers up over 100+ miles of course each day. That is part of what makes bike racing so great. But the dog should not have been there, especially without a leash.

The Weak Link 07-19-07 03:18 PM

The scene with the dog was pretty amazing. The cyclist couldn't have been going more than 10 MPH and he majorly taco'd the wheel. Didn't bother the dog at all. I think I'd feel a bit uneasy about descending at 50 MPH with wheels that fragile.

stapfam 07-19-07 03:43 PM

One of the things that I am wondering about is that the UCI have a minimum weight limit of 15 Lbs. for a bike. I have a bike that is 15Lbs and it does not contain many parts that are Ultra light. These TDF bikes have everything Lightweight so what is the actual weight of these bikes- Or is it Metric Lbs. that are lighter than the imperial version. Now at 10mph- that wheel must have been very fragile. So fragile that I would be wary of even hitting a Manhole cover at 50mph.

BSLeVan 07-19-07 04:28 PM

I felt so bad for the dog. She was just doing what dogs do and got rammed. BluesDawg is right. Keep your dogs away from bicycle races... that is, if you care for 'em at all.

In terms of the wheel, it was for a very light rider and for a climbing stage. I would expect it to be light enough to fold like it did. If I was as small as most of the pure climbers, I'd probably feel pretty comfortable on such wheels.

Tom Bombadil 07-19-07 04:42 PM

I've been told that they use much lighter, thinner rims on ascents than they do for descents. That they lighten the rotational mass as much as possible for going uphill and have to add weight elsewhere on the bike to meet the 15 pound requirement.

They wouldn't use this thin, fragile rim for a downhill run.

tsl 07-19-07 06:45 PM

If you look closely (and slowly) the rider turns the bars so the wheel is sideways before impact. The rubber is peeling off the rim before he hits the dog.

Load darned near any wheel with deceleration forces, rider weight shift, then have it plow sideways, it's gonna taco--with or without canine assistance. Mountain bike riders do it all the time, and you could hardly say their wheels are delicate.

head_wind 07-19-07 07:10 PM

A couple of months ago I was riding with my wife and thought that a dog
was going to do exactly that to her. I was preparing to ram the damn thing
but it turned off in time.

card 07-19-07 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil (Post 4885804)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLNTuxFdvvg

Notice how the ultra light wheel, used in the climbing stages, just crumples upon impact.

I watched that on the TV. I actually felt sorry for the golden lab and the rider because I HATE violent dogs but that dog was a big pet. Been bit several times and now I'm having an issue w/a dog that has tried to bite me the last 6 time I have ridden my usual route. I've called the sheriff and encouraged some other people that are having trouble w/the dog to call and they are trying to do something; however, the owners are never around. In Texas, I can get an injuction if someone threatens my safety; however, a dog has to actually bite me to have something done. The sheriff says I have the right to protect myself; however, I don't have a concealed permit, so I can't carry a pistol w/ratshot. This dog is smart. He comes up directly behind me and when I try to spray pepper spray from one side, he changes sides. I keep hoping that when he crosses the highway to try and bite me, a car will hit him. That happened once on a ride.

Now I know there are a lot of dog lovers on this forum and there are a lot of dogs I like; however, I've been riding enough years and have had enought experience w/dogs to know if I might get bit or not.

Judge me........don't judge me. Judge the dog's owner..........or don't judge the dog's owner. When I'm riding on the shoulder of a state highway and the dog crosses the highway to get me, I think I should have the right to defend myself!!!!!!!!

jibi 07-20-07 04:25 AM

If you look at the vid you can see the wheel folding before it hits the dog.
In the rotational direction Carbon Fibre is very strong, but Burghartd turns his handlebars so the wheel is a 90 degrees. And the wheel does not the same strength across the fibre mesh,
It seems his travelling mass folds the wheel IMHO.

george

BlazingPedals 07-20-07 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by card (Post 4889815)
... The sheriff says I have the right to protect myself; however, I don't have a concealed permit, so I can't carry a pistol w/ratshot. This dog is smart. He comes up directly behind me and when I try to spray pepper spray from one side, he changes sides.

Slam on the brakes to confront the dog - and have a big hunting knive at the ready. Fluffy needs to understand that cyclists can have teeth, too; and the hunter can become the hunted.

maddmaxx 07-20-07 06:15 AM

The wheel like most professional racing components is just strong enough to do the intended job with no excess left over. Some professional riders seem to have "mechanical troubles" at just the right time to allow them to change bikes which may or may not have equipment designed better for the next part of the race. The cobblestone section of Paris-Roubaix comes to mind.

The most important thing is to understand when not to use these components for everyday riding even though they have such nice "bling" appeal.

RockyMtnMerlin 07-20-07 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibi (Post 4891805)
If you look at the vid you can see the wheel folding before it hits the dog.
In the rotational direction Carbon Fibre is very strong, but Burghartd turns his handlebars so the wheel is a 90 degrees. And the wheel does not the same strength across the fibre mesh,
It seems his travelling mass folds the wheel IMHO.

george

I'll say what I did over in the racing forum. I still think that if you look at the few frames around the 18 second mark that the wheel does not begin to bend until the leading edge touched the dog's shoulder. Coincidentally, that also causes the wheel to turn nearly perpendicular to the frame of the bike and then it folds in half. FWIW, the consensus over there is that it is a wheel from Lightweight - so there went half of a $5000 wheelset.

SaiKaiTai 07-20-07 09:30 AM

OK, first off: Where was that dog's owner? And why wasn't that dog leashed? I won't say more than that because it'll just get me mad. Irresponsible dog owners just really push my buttons.

Second: Where was the course marshall? When I marshalled the Tour of California Prologue, watching out for dogs was one of the things they stressed... come on, it's a safety issue, your job is maintaining safety. Do it.

Thirdly, it was not a Golden Lab. There is no such breed. Yellow Lab, yes. Golden Retriever, yes. Golden Lab, No. Just being picky... I'll go back into hiding now.

Thank you.

OH306 07-20-07 09:47 AM

That race team was probably on a tight budget and used a cheap Chinese wheel made from dog food with toothpaste as a binding agent. Oh for the good old days when things were made in Japan.

card 07-20-07 09:53 AM

[QUOTE=SaiKaiTai
Thirdly, it was not a Golden Lab. There is no such breed. Yellow Lab, yes. Golden Retriever, yes. Golden Lab, No. Just being picky...Thank you.[/QUOTE]

How about big yellow dog? Is that correct?

SaiKaiTai 07-20-07 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by card (Post 4893391)
How about big yellow dog? Is that correct?

Oh, now, don't go getting all hinky about it...
Big yellow dog is fine.

You're talking to a guy that has to hold back vomit every time he hears someone say "Should have went"

Besides, I said I was being picky. I own a Golden, OK? That explain things a little?

Tom Bombadil 07-20-07 10:19 AM

He hit OL' YELLER!

What a fiend!

card 07-20-07 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaiKaiTai (Post 4893431)
Oh, now, don't go getting all hinky about it...
Big yellow dog is fine.

You're talking to a guy that has to hold back vomit every time he hears someone say "Should have went"

Besides, I said I was being picky. I own a Golden, OK? That explain things a little?

Not being "hinky."


What is this?
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/goldenlabrador.htm

Digital Gee 07-20-07 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaiKaiTai (Post 4893250)
OK, first off: Where was that dog's owner? And why wasn't that dog leashed? I won't say more than that because it'll just get me mad. Irresponsible dog owners just really push my buttons.

Second: Where was the course marshall? When I marshalled the Tour of California Prologue, watching out for dogs was one of the things they stressed... come on, it's a safety issue, your job is maintaining safety. Do it.

Thirdly, it was not a Golden Lab. There is no such breed. Yellow Lab, yes. Golden Retriever, yes. Golden Lab, No. Just being picky... I'll go back into hiding now.

Thank you.

You got persnickedy when you changed avatars! (Not that there's anything wrong with that...:D)

SaiKaiTai 07-20-07 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by card (Post 4893820)
Not being "hinky."


What is this?
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/goldenlabrador.htm

What is that?
I guess when you get right down to it, that is a mutt. You can call a mutt whatever you want.
I guess you could say I once had a Siberian Alsatian or -if you prefer- a German Husky or an Alsatian Husky
She was still a mutt... and there's nothing wrong with that.

And, while that link might take you to a "Golden Lab", that dog that got hit in the TdF was a Yellow Lab.

Tom Bombadil 07-20-07 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by card (Post 4893820)
Not being "hinky."


What is this?
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/goldenlabrador.htm


That's good evidence of the designer breeds that so many breeders are promoting, as it is a hot business.

Note that the "American Canine Hybrid Club" is in existence to promote mixed breeds, so their "certification" on this matter wouldn't mean much.

The American Kennel Club (AKC) does not recognize the Golden Lab as a breed. Nor does the Fédération Cynologique Internationale.

http://www.akc.org/breeds/index.cfm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A9...Internationale


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