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  1. #1
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    Specialized Sirrus replacement?

    I want to replace my Specialized Sirrus which weighs about 25 lbs empty with something more up-to-date, lighter and faster for my old age. Still keeping to the hybrid, straight handlebar, configuration though and under 20 lbs in weight if at all possible.
    I have been looking on manufacturers sites but they don't seem to give weights any more. Suggestions gratefully received.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cirrus18 View Post
    I want to replace my Specialized Sirrus which weighs about 25 lbs empty with something more up-to-date, lighter and faster for my old age. Still keeping to the hybrid, straight handlebar, configuration though and under 20 lbs in weight if at all possible.
    I have been looking on manufacturers sites but they don't seem to give weights any more. Suggestions gratefully received.
    I am surprised at the Sirrus being that heavy and can only presume that you have one of the older bikes or a low spec with heavy parts on it.

    I ride a Giant OCR3 road bike and this is a low spec Form of the bike. Almost identical to it is the FCR range- The straight barred version of the same bike. My Giant is the lowest of the low- and it weighs 19 1/2 lbs. I know I have the smallest frame- but the quoted weight for a mid size version- Was 23lbs. Now they do a Carbon Fibre version of the bike and that weighs in at 18.7lbs Not certain if this is available in the US but the Uk web site that does quote weights (Under specifications) is

    http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-GB/...oad/158/15166/
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  3. #3
    His Brain is Gone! Tom Bombadil's Avatar
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    I've been researching exactly this type of bike, so I do have some information. Please feel free to ask me follow-up questions.

    First of all, the higher end, lighter flat-bar road bike is kinda falling out of favor. A number of companies have dropped them in the past two years.

    Specialized did offer three higher end, lighter models in 2007, their all-carbon Sirrus LTD, a part-carbon well-equipped Sirrus Pro, and a part-carbon nicely-equipped Sirrus Comp. According to their new web pages on their 2008 models, they are no longer offering the LTD or Elite in 2008 and price on the Comp has been raised by $200. I've seen '07 Sirrus Comps going for around $900. These have carbon forks, carbon seat stays, and carbon seat posts. Definitely lighter than the lower end models. Worth checking out.

    Marin has a Lucas Valley in their 2007 lineup that also has carbon fork and seat stay. Not as nicely equipped as the Sirrus Comp but still decent, listing for $799. They also offered a full carbon verson named the "Highway One" that lists for $2559.

    Giant has their FCR line. Except for their new $1400 FCR Alliance, these models aren't quite as nice as say the Sirrus Comp that I mentioned above. They are also a bit less expensive. The FCR1 & FCR2 have carbon forks and reasonable wheels & components. I consider them to be a bit more hybrid and thus a bit less road bike than the Sirrus.

    Trek offers their FX line, which they label as a hybrid. However it really isn't much different than the Giant FCR line, which Giant markets as a road bike. Not sure I would go with anything in this line lower than the 7.7 FX if you are looking for a lighter bike. I believe the 7.5 FX goes at around 22 pounds. They offer a full carbon 7.9 FX, which is a pretty nice bike, but lists at $2400 (you can sometimes find it around $1800-$1900).

    A bike that I am looking at and would be a good option for you to check out, if you could find one, is the 2006 Fuji Absolute 1.0. Weighs 20 pounds in my size. Good components. Carbon fork & stays. Listed at $1210, but can be had for under $1000 from most places still having any in stock.

    If you can find one, another option is a 2006 Trek Pilot 1.2, which is a flat bar version of their Pilot 1.2 road bike.
    Last edited by Tom Bombadil; 08-12-07 at 12:03 AM.
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    Tom, your analysis of bikes astounds me, I always learn something.

    I tested a Sirrus Comp yesterday. I stood over a Medium (men's) and it was too short so he brought out the large (men's -- they didn't have a WSD). The large was wayyyy too long of a reach, so I will continue to look at WSD models. I'm sorry to read that "the higher end, lighter flat-bar road bike" is being discontinued by some companies.... that narrows the playing field even more for me, unless I am willing to consider a road bike with drop bars with a compact+WSD geometry and do what I can to raise the bars, or change the bars, if necessary.

    Anyway I am keeping a close eye on this discussion...
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  5. #5
    His Brain is Gone! Tom Bombadil's Avatar
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    Yep, they are disappearing from a number of product lines. Some examples:

    - The apparent demise of the 2007 Specialized Sirrus LTD and Sirrus Pro
    - 2006 Trek Pilot 1.2 and 5.2 flat bar versions
    - 2005 Felt SR71, SR81, and SR91
    - 2006 Fuji Absolute 1.0 (known as the Fuji Royale in 2003-2005)
    - 2006 Bianchi Alfana

    LeMond had a Wayzata flat bar that they dropped around 2004-2005.

    There were others too, these are the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

    Bucking this trend, Raleigh converted their 2007 Cadent drop bar comfort road bike line to a flat-bar line in 2008, and Giant added the FCR Alliance to the top of their FCR line.
    Last edited by Tom Bombadil; 08-12-07 at 12:03 AM.
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    His Brain is Gone! Tom Bombadil's Avatar
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    One I forgot to mention that is still out there is the Cannondale Road Warrior line. The top of the line Road Warrior 1000 is a pretty lean road bike, wearing a compact double crank and 700x25 tires. The 800 is a touch heavier but still a nice bike (you might want to ditch its suspension seat post).

    The 500 is more sedate, but pretty comfortable. I love the handlebar grips on it, tried to buy a pair from my Cannondale dealer but he said I'd have to buy the bike to get them.
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    His Brain is Gone! Tom Bombadil's Avatar
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    Last edited by Tom Bombadil; 08-12-07 at 02:13 PM.
    "Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen." Louis L'Amour

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    Another option that you could consider, as well as anyone else following this thread, is the Jamis Coda series. In your case where you are looking for a lighter weight bike, the only one in that series which would be is the top of the line Jamis Coda Supreme at $1750. For that price you get a lot of bike, with carbon fork, seat stay, top tube, and seat post. Ultegra groupset. 19.25 pounds, which you could lighten even further by swapping out the adjustable stem with a lightweight fixed stem.

    Others following this thread who might not be as concerned by weight, could take a look at their Coda Elite and Coda Comp models. This is a rare steel flat-bar road bike option. It also differs from those above by using a traditional (non-compact) geometry, which can work well for people who have close to standard body proportions (i.e. legs or torsos are not overly long or short).

    I've added a Jamis link to the post above.
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  9. #9
    His Brain is Gone! Tom Bombadil's Avatar
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    And when I finally got around to checking my notes, I found another bike that I had checked out a couple of months ago, the Kona PhD. Fairly light, with an aggressive stance. Nice Mavic Aksium wheel set. Pretty good components throughout. I've also gone back to add a link to it above.

    The other Kona bikes in the "Asphalt" series tend to be a bit on the heavier side, more like the new class of "urban" bikes than a flat bar roadie.

  10. #10
    The Grampster tlc20010's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
    Another option that you could consider, as well as anyone else following this thread, is the Jamis Coda series. In your case where you are looking for a lighter weight bike, the only one in that series which would be is the top of the line Jamis Coda Supreme at $1750. For that price you get a lot of bike, with carbon fork, seat stay, top tube, and seat post. Ultegra groupset. 19.25 pounds, which you could lighten even further by swapping out the adjustable stem with a lightweight fixed stem.

    Others following this thread who might not be as concerned by weight, could take a look at their Coda Elite and Coda Comp models. This is a rare steel flat-bar road bike option. It also differs from those above by using a traditional (non-compact) geometry, which can work well for people who have close to standard body proportions (i.e. legs or torsos are not overly long or short).

    I've added a Jamis link to the post above.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
    One I forgot to mention that is still out there is the Cannondale Road Warrior line. The top of the line Road Warrior 1000 is a pretty lean road bike, wearing a compact double crank and 700x25 tires. The 800 is a touch heavier but still a nice bike (you might want to ditch its suspension seat post).

    The 500 is more sedate, but pretty comfortable. I love the handlebar grips on it, tried to buy a pair from my Cannondale dealer but he said I'd have to buy the bike to get them.

    I've spent a lot of time on both a Jamis Coda Comp (stolen, sob) and a Cannondale RW 1000 which I still have. Both are bikes I love(d). The Cannondale is within a few percent as fast as my LeMond Buenos Aires. These bikes are great urban and Trail bikes and the Cannondale is even a pretty serviceable road bike. They are good for around town or metric or full centuries. I never toured on one, but I see no reason why you couldn't. They will handle a wide variety of tires. Very high quality components and braze-ons for all that stuff you might want to carry along.
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    K2 makes a nice one, although I haven't ridden or weighed one. REI sells them and I was scoping out an Astrale 3.0 for fair weather commuting on the train.
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    His Brain is Gone! Tom Bombadil's Avatar
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    I've seen the K2 Astral 5.0 too, at a REI. I thought it was a decent bike for the money ($799), although not much of a step up from a lower end Specialized Sirrus.

    If someone was looking for a flat-bar road bike in the $750-$800 neighborhood, it would be worth their time to check out. The parts are nicely matched and balanced. Nothing shoddy, nothing overkill for the price.

    That said, REI also sometimes stocks the Marin Mill Valley for about the same price and I think I like it a little bit better - primarily because I like how carbon seat stays smooth ride the ride on an aluminum frame bike.

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    OP, out of curiosity, any reason why you want to stay with a flat bar as opposed to a drop bar?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcvelo View Post
    OP, out of curiosity, any reason why you want to stay with a flat bar as opposed to a drop bar?
    Simple reason really. I had a back operation for a slipped disc and I now find that a more upright cycling stance is just more comfortable.

    Thanks guys for the replies they make interesting reading.

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    I see a lot of those things around DC -- many people seem to find them ideal. I'm not sure why five less pounds woud make any detectable improvement in performance, although the lighter weight might bring in some reliability issues. How about a newer Sirrus?

    Paul

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    how about a lighter wheelset and tires on your existing sirrus?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cirrus18 View Post
    I want to replace my Specialized Sirrus which weighs about 25 lbs empty with something more up-to-date, lighter and faster for my old age. Still keeping to the hybrid, straight handlebar, configuration though and under 20 lbs in weight if at all possible.
    I have been looking on manufacturers sites but they don't seem to give weights any more. Suggestions gratefully received.
    Lots of good info. here as usual, but seems to me that there's at least two '08 bikes (mentioned else where) that fit your profile precisely:
    1. '08 Giant FCR Alliance: how much closer could this be?? Will almost certainly be sub-20 lb. as stock, given the frame/fork, upper-level crank (R600), and even stock wheels. To my mind, Giant has tweaked this bike to exactly where it should be: the frame is not the OCR Alliance road frame with a flat bar slapped on, but rather that frame adapted very slightly (slightly longer top tube per size, slightly longer chainstays, slightly greater tire clearance, etc.) toward being a dedicated 'flat-bar road' bike -- still very light/quick, but with some added versatility built in.
    2. Trek. I think the reason things like the 'Pilot flat bar' versions are gone is simply down to the FX series having evolved for '08. Again, look at the '08 7.6 and 7.7: same carbon front/rear frame, with geometry perfectly suited to 'flat bar' use. The 7.6 uses a trekking crank/9 speed, the 7.7 full-on (higher) road gearing (as does the full carbon 7.9). Can't imagine either bike being over, say, 22 lbs or so, and could probably fairly easily be down to 20 with a few component (bars, etc.) tweaks.

    Between the Giant and Treks, I see these differences:
    1. probably slightly more technically sophisticated frame on the Giant, but not a deal breaker
    2. FCR oriented slightly more toward true 'road' (as in 'road race') geometry, the Treks (longer chainstays, longer wheelbase, slacker head angles) slightly more toward 'fast touring' geometry, and more tire
    clearance. FCR, I would think, would handle/accelerate SLIGHTLY more quickly, the Treks be slightly more forgiving/stable, especially if carrying any kind of load. That's about it.

  18. #18
    His Brain is Gone! Tom Bombadil's Avatar
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    I had mentioned the Giant FCR Alliance earlier in the thread, but admit I didn't give its due. The new Trek FX line specs weren't out at that time.

    My nit with the FCR Alliance is that I feel the price is a bit high for a bike with an all-aluminum frame w/carbon fork. However, as you point out, it is a modified design, which would push the price up. And certainly there are aluminum frame road bikes selling for much more than this, which have very nice frames. I guess I was thinking that given this is the Giant FCR series, which is a low-to-mid line series, how can they ask $1500 for an aluminum frame bike?

    That said, I do agree that it is a well coordinated, nicely balanced, lightweight flar bar road bike. All of the parts are pretty much Shimano 105 level quality, the gearing is a comfy 50/34 compact with a moderate 12-27 rear - more aggressive than a hybrid but not as demanding as a performance road bike.

    The Trek 7.6 FX appears to be a very good deal at $1100. If one likes the long frame and lower gearing. It is as long as many touring bikes, about 2" longer than the FCR Alliance. The upgrade to the carbon seat stay is a very nice one in '08 at this price point. As is the Deore/105 grouppo at this price point.

    The 7.7 FX has the same frame as the 7.6, just with upgraded components and wheels. I'm surprised it is $650 more than the 7.6, given that you are paying just the cost difference of each upgrade. That is, you are paying for the difference between having Bontrager SSR wheels and Bontrager Race wheels, which might be a $50 cost difference to Trek. Likewise for the 105 to Ultegra rd, etc. Plus there would be some additional cost markup to keep the profit margin percentage about the same.

    But you are right, these two would have a different ride & feel to them. The Giant is more of a performance bike. I haven't had a chance to ride either as yet, my local Trek shop has the 7.6 in, but not in my size.

    I'm looking at these same bikes. In my case, several of the "upgrades" on the 7.7 FX work against me. I like the gearing better on the 7.6. The handlebar on the 7.7 17.5" is 0mm rise instead of 25mm. The stem is lower. The saddle that I would throw away cost more on the 7.7. I don't like the color of the 7.7. I don't like the pedals as well as they don't have a platform side. And, frankly, having 10 speeds is more of an inconvenience than a feature for my riding style.

    I wouldn't mind paying hundreds more for upgrades, but not these particular upgrades. At least not for several of them. For someone else, they might be nice improvements.

  19. #19
    His Brain is Gone! Tom Bombadil's Avatar
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    Another 2008 stealth candidate is the Specialized Sirrus Pro. The 2008 model has not yet made its appearance in their web pages, but I've seen it in a dealer's catalog. Roughly it is as follows:

    Full carbon frame, very similar but not identical to the 2007 Sirrus LTD.
    Fork, seatpost, and seat stays have Zertz Inserts (buzz beaters)
    Shimano 105 groupset
    Triple crankset 50/39/30
    Wide range cassette 11-28

    Price is $2050. Lower than the '07 LTD which was carbon with Ultegra. It is a lot like they took the frame of the LTD ($2400) and married it with the component parts of the '07 Sirrus Pro ($1300).

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    His Brain is Gone! Tom Bombadil's Avatar
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    Just snooped around the web and found an international page that shows the 2008 Sirrus Pro:

    http://www.dalescycles.com/ProductDe...e=SPECSIRPRO08

    I was comparing it to a custom build Gunnar Sport bike, which would cost me about $1900 to build. The purchase price of the Pro would be around $1950. Full steel vs Full carbon, with many of the parts in the same class.

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    Tom B: could I just add one point here, re. FCR Alliance and its price? NOT an (all) aluminum frame; the Alliance technology is a sophisticated 'marriage' between full carbon t/t/seat stays/half seat tube, with alu. for head, down tubes and chain stays. I've ridden the OCR version -- it's a wonderful and VERY forgiving frame. Seriously considering one (FCR '08) myself for next year. Cheers

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    His Brain is Gone! Tom Bombadil's Avatar
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    If that is true, and it certainly could be, Giant doesn't say it very clearly on their web pages. That would certainly explain the $1500 price tag.

    Under the "Full Specs" on their pages, they describe the frame thusly:
    "ALUXX butted aluminum, Compact Road Design and Integrated Forged Headtube"

    They make a slight passing reference to having composite elements in their overview. But that could just as easily be interpreted as having a composite fork.

    In the OCR Alliance specs, they say:
    "fomulaOne Composite, Compact Road Design"

    So this reads to me like the OCR Alliance is mostly carbon fiber, while the FCR Alliance is an aluminum frame with a cf fork. Not saying that what it really is, but that is how Giant is advertising it. If they have more composite/cf in their frame, they should be more up front about it.

    They don't even mention using more composite in the frame in their section on "Key Differences between the FCR 1 and FCR Alliance.

  23. #23
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    I liked the FCR 1 W so much, I'll have to look for the Alliance.
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    Hey again, TomB: re. your last post on this, I think I can safely say that the 08 FCR Alliance is indeed an 'alliance' frame; it's clearly so described in the PDF download brochure on Giant's site, AND (fwiw) both my dealer and Giant rep. have told me directly that this is indeed the case. Hence, as you note, the price point. Giant's 'Technology' window describes the frame construction.

    Just to reiterate: I have ridden this frame in its 07 OCR/full road iteration -- as is usual with Giant, this frame really is/does just 'what it says on the tin'. The ride quality (vibration absorbtion) is outstanding, very much a 'full carbon' feel, just at a substantially lower price point. That bike (OCR Alliance 0) was very light -- I suspect the FCR version will be as light or slightly lighter (flatbar/levers are lighter than drops/brifters). What Giant has (to my mind rightly) done is to tweak the frame's geometry to make a dedicated 'flat bar' road frame, contra. previous generations of FCR.

    As to price point, I think again this will be outstanding: to my mind, the FCR Alliance will be, for about $200 U.S. less, a slightly 'better' bike than the Trek 7.7fx (don't get me wrong -- also a very very fine bike, which I've also tested) as far as frame construction is concerned, with about equal componentry. So it comes down to which one 'feels' best/best suits intended use for a given buyer: these are (the 08s) the two I'm likely to choose between. Both appeal to me (over 'full carbon') simply because a metal main frame/chainstays is I think likely to be a little tougher for everyday, commuting use.

    I, I take it much like you, have been looking at this bike 'type' for some time now -- kind of a waiting game to see if affordable highish-tech bikes of this sort appeared. Now they have, and there's some real choice. I want a 'road' bike, but can't take too much 'jarring' nor do I get on at all with drops (and I have, at some expense, tried to!) -- so have been sticking with my very light roadified mtb until 'my' bike came along.

    For me, the Sirrus (the other 'big three' player in this genre) is a non-starter simply because of the (for me) very odd/awkward geometry: the Medium has a far too-short effective t/t (54.5 cm) to my mind.

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    I didn't see a WSD version of the Alliance at the Giant sight. Have you heard of or seen one?
    Specialized Roubaix Expert
    Surly Long Haul Trucker

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