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  1. #1
    Peddlin' Around Detroit Motorad's Avatar
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    Century Ride Setup: Saluki Tank or Legend Corvette?

    Consideration for century rides in Michigan. Assume that the League of Michigan Bikers sponsor century rides in all quadrants of the State: Flat in SE Michigan ... Unsure of hills in the other quadrants of Michigan.

    Never ridden past 52 miles (and I'm definitely not in endorphin-kharma 24 hours afterward), but they were slow-paced miles without the "pressure" of reaching a specified cross-line. And on a comfortable bike.

    So, having done 52 miles/per 5.5 hours: I'm wondering what would be the best bike setup for doing a U.S. century ride ... which would probably take me at least 14 hours to accomplish. I have two choices of bike setup: Both bikes have Brooks ti-saddles.

    1. SALUKI:
    * Steel frame ... aluminum seatpost and handlebars.
    * Upside: Comfortable.
    Max air pressure on the 650B-33mm tires is 75 PSI. Has a solid feel to its heavy steel frame.
    * Downside: Weight.
    Bike with mini-rack on back ... lighting front and back ... bags on handlebar and under saddle with "stuff" (to quote George Carlin) ... weighs in at 36 lbs (bags empty except for tools).
    * Gearing: 46/36/24 Chainrings ... 12/27 Cassette (9-Speed).

    2. LEGEND ST:
    * Titanium frame ... carbon seatpost, handlebars, stem, seat stay, & forks.
    * Upside: Speed. Lightweight. I'm guessing the average speed on the Legend must be 1.5 to 2.0 MPH faster. Is this a reasonable guess, or would the Legend have an average speed even higher than 2.0 MPH?
    * Upside: Should be able to finish a couple of hours faster if the century is on flat terrain.
    * Downside: To be honest, I'm not qualified to answer yet. The bike hasn't been assembled yet. But the bike will be on 700C-25mm wheels and the tire pressure will probably be around 100 PSI.
    * Downside: Uncomfortable?
    * Gearing: 50/39 Chainrings ... 12/27 Cassette (10-Speed).

    If a close choice between bikes, then perhaps would one bike be a better choice, depending on which quadrant of Michigan that a century is scheduled for?

    So, which would you choose and why? Perhaps you could describe your riding environment and tell us which bike you would choose to ride a century on.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Dchiefransom's Avatar
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    I'd choose the more comfortable one. You can only tell this after your other one has been ridden some miles. Maybe try a flat century and see how your body does after that amount of time. If it's taking you 5.5 hours to ride just over 50 miles, then faster gearing won't matter, all you need to consider is gearing for hills.
    Be careful, many organized centuries only provide support up to a certain time, then they want to SAG you in.
    Silver Eagle Pilot

  3. #3
    as I used to be NotAsFat's Avatar
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    Legend ST, period. A properly-fitted titanium frame with a broken-in Brooks saddle, carbon seat post, seat stays, forks, and bars should be perfectly comfortable, particularly considering that you won't be on it nearly as long. The gearing should be okay for any reasonably flat course. A 50-36 or 50-34 crankset would be better for a hilly course.

    You don't need to take much "stuff" along on an organized century. Basic tools in a small to medium seat bag, a frame-mounted pump, a couple of water bottles in cages, plus id, keys, a little cash, some gel packs or a flask, and maybe a third water bottle in your jersey pockets are plenty.

    I would try to work in a ride of about 70-75 miles between now and the century, if possible. A lot of cyclists "hit the wall" and/or start cramping at that point. I cramped up on my first century, and was lucky that it happened on a nice, long, gentle descent that let me stand up and stretch the cramps out without having to stop.
    Last edited by NotAsFat; 08-27-07 at 11:41 PM.
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  4. #4
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
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    To make it a fair comparison you should take most of the extra "stuff" off the Saluki. That is where much of the weight difference lies.
    For a century, I want a comfortable bike that rolls fast and easy. Gearing should be set up appropriately fro the terrain.
    My guess is the Ti bike probably would work best, but only if you have the fit dialed in.
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

  5. #5
    Senior Member CrossChain's Avatar
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    Don't forget fit and position. Are you farther forward and "down" on the Legend? Longer reach to the bars....more "racer". How much time will you have to dial in the Legend before the ride? Is the Saluki more of a cruiser...likes to go straight, takes less constant input to hold a line? Will a 39x27 be low enough after 80 miles, you're on a shallow but long climb or series of steep rollers and the legs are cramping and you're feeling the drum beat of low-grade bonk?

    Generally, the Legend may be a beauty for you, but if you're planning your first century this fall and 50 or so is your longest ride so far, you may want a bike you're hand-in-glove accustomed to. Sustained comfort may be a goal this time over speed.

    Besides, the Saluki is a fairly unique bike and others will want to admire it and chatting does pass the miles away.

  6. #6
    Senior Member late's Avatar
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    Definitely the Saluki. When the ride is several hours long, comfort is king.

  7. #7
    Ride Daddy Ride Jet Travis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
    My guess is the Ti bike probably would work best, but only if you have the fit dialed in.
    And getting the fit dialed in (unless the frame is too big/small) shouldn't be too hard. A good LBS can get the stem dialed in (usually higher, maybe shorter) so that you have the best of both worlds. Whatever bike you use, good luck.
    "Light it up, Popo." --Levi Leipheimer

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    The Saluki sounds like a fine bike for touring, but that's not what you'll be doing. Get the Legend ST on the road, work out fit issues, and make sure everything is sound early enough that you can get some training miles in with it. If you're riding 52 miles now, you'll want to get up into the 70s before the century. Oh, and the issue of one bike being "x" MPH faster than the other is less about the bike and more about the engine pushing it.
    Oh I used to be disgusted and now I try to be amused. But since their wings have got rusted, you know, the angels wanna wear my red shoes. But when they told me 'bout their side of the bargain, that's when I knew that I could not refuse. And I won't get any older, now the angels wanna wear my red shoes.

  9. #9
    Peddlin' Around Detroit Motorad's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone for very good advice. A lot of importance is placed on being dialed in, the down-lean of the rider, and the reach for the bars. I'm not certain where my LBS will recommend I start the height of the Legend's handlebars, so uncertain on that part of the dialing in.

    If you look at the photo of my Saluki (see my avatar), the hood of the handlebars is a bit above the saddle-height. I have been spending 85 percent on the hood and about 15 percent on the drops. This is a comfortable position, but it does scoop the wind on downhills. I may not be capable of a century this year, but your advice will help me to determine the best way to get ready ... either with the jeep (Saluki) or the corvette (Legend).

    It's still a toss-up on the high-geared chainrings I selected for the Legend ... not for SE MI ... but on centuries with slopes as CrossChain discussed. I guess the only way to know ... is to build my legs up with the jeep for the time being, and in a month see how the corvette's gears can handle hills.

  10. #10
    jcm
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    Your avatar shows a a classic touring/comfort set-up. Good. I go for maximum comfort every time. My Sequoia Elite weights 30lbs with a Brooks 17, a medium bar bag, and two large water bottles on it, but is extremely comfortable on centuries because it's setup like your Saluki, even tho they are totally different approaches to road bikes. Plus, the jockey weights another 235.

    I agree that you should be hitting 80 miles with no problems before you go for The Big One. You'll find all the little things that matter at about that distance, and will be able to address them. For instance, at 235, I need to eat alot more after 50 miles to keep the furnace hot. The last 20 miles of a century are largely mental. If you are dialed-in for 80, it's a slam dunk, if you leave the kitchen sink in the kitchen

  11. #11
    Senior Member Terrierman's Avatar
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    I would lose as much non-essential weight off the Saluki that you know and love and ride it. Unless of course you get the Legend set up where you're totally as comfortable with it and the gearing, and you like it better because it is lighter and faster. And then it's a toss up.
    It's all downhill from here. Except the parts that are uphill.

  12. #12
    Let's do a Century jppe's Avatar
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    I would agree with the Legend as well. You'll really be glad you made that choice at the end of ride thinking "what if I still had two more hours of riding left".............You can get it just as comfortable as the tank.........

  13. #13
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorad View Post
    The bike hasn't been assembled yet.
    There's your answer. Never use new equipment on a big ride.

  14. #14
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
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    You know? This whole thread is kind of pointless. Go ride a century on the bike you have, the Saluki. Later, when the Legend is built and dialed in, ride a century on it. Then you can come on here and tell us which one worked better and why. Then we can tell you why you are wrong.
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

  15. #15
    King of the molehills bcoppola's Avatar
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    I'll second BluesDawg, RetroGrouch et al for sticking with the bike you know fits: the Saluki. Save the Legend for another century after you've got it dialed in.

    Is one of the centuries you're considering the Peach of a Ride in Macomb Co. on Sept. 9? I'm doing that one.
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  16. #16
    Peddlin' Around Detroit Motorad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcoppola View Post
    I'll second BluesDawg, RetroGrouch et al for sticking with the bike you know fits: the Saluki. Save the Legend for another century after you've got it dialed in.

    Is one of the centuries you're considering the Peach of a Ride in Macomb Co. on Sept. 9? I'm doing that one.
    I don't think I can do 100 miles yet, especially if there is a time-limit. Based on my fatigue level after 52 miles, I don't think I could make more than 65 miles (7 hours?) tops. Where is there info about the Peach O' Ride, so I may possibly see about lesser scheduled rides? I live in Melvindale, in Wayne Co.

  17. #17
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorad View Post
    I don't think I can do 100 miles yet, especially if there is a time-limit. Based on my fatigue level after 52 miles, I don't think I could make more than 65 miles (7 hours?) tops. Where is there info about the Peach O' Ride, so I may possibly see about lesser scheduled rides? I live in Melvindale, in Wayne Co.
    By the time you get to where you are able to ride the distance, you should have enough miles on both bikes to know which one would be best for whatever ride you may be planning. This whole discussion was pretty much "out there" imho, especially since one of the bikes you are trying to get remote evaluations of hasn't even been built yet.
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

  18. #18
    Peddlin' Around Detroit Motorad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
    By the time you get to where you are able to ride the distance, you should have enough miles on both bikes to know which one would be best for whatever ride you may be planning. This whole discussion was pretty much "out there" imho, especially since one of the bikes you are trying to get remote evaluations of hasn't even been built yet.
    Thanks for your opinion, but I would disagree about the OP being out there. The OP had the intent, of receiving feedback from riders, on which bike would be better for extended rides based on the terrain they ride in.

    The OP also had a possible goal of receiving recommendations of fitting the unassembled bike for extended organized rides ... before it is assembled. I have learned quite a bit from your input and from the others. For example: I will say, that had I received and had been riding the jeep before I purchased the gearing for the corvette, I may not have purchased a 50/39 crank for the Legend ... based on the 50/39's lack of low gears if doing a century in North Michigan. I would look forward to transporting a bike to different areas of Michigan in the future, to do extended rides on flat and on hilly terrain, and since the Legend is not assembled yet ... it helps to get recommendations that may impact how it gets assembled. In fact, I wouldn't mind if I was told (with explanation) why a 50/39 double crank would not be recommended for the Legend ... for doing century rides.

  19. #19
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorad View Post
    Thanks for your opinion, but I would disagree about the OP being out there. The OP had the intent, of receiving feedback from riders, on which bike would be better for extended rides based on the terrain they ride in.

    The OP also had a possible goal of receiving recommendations of fitting the unassembled bike for extended organized rides ... before it is assembled. I have learned quite a bit from your input and from the others. For example: I will say, that had I received and had been riding the jeep before I purchased the gearing for the corvette, I may not have purchased a 50/39 crank for the Legend ... based on the 50/39's lack of low gears if doing a century in North Michigan. I would look forward to transporting a bike to different areas of Michigan in the future, to do extended rides on flat and on hilly terrain, and since the Legend is not assembled yet ... it helps to get recommendations that may impact how it gets assembled. In fact, I wouldn't mind if I was told (with explanation) why a 50/39 double crank would not be recommended for the Legend ... for doing century rides.
    Sorry if I made my point a little too strongly. Obviously I value the exchange of opinions and information or I wouldn't be on here asking and answering questions. But I also place a high value on actual experience over theory and advice. Even making wrong choices is important in really learning what the best choices are. A problem with advice on a situation like this is that none of us know how these bikes will work for you. I'm not sure if any of us knows how hilly it will be on the rides you plan to do or how well you will be able to handle the hills with various gearing options. Only by riding different combinations will you know how they do for you.
    For all I know, a 50/39 double may work fine. Every century ride I have ridden was on the same bike, either with the original 53/40 crank or the current 50/40/30. Only on the very hilliest of those centuries have I used the 30 tooth ring.
    If you have not assembled the Legend and you are not sure about the crank, why not put on a compact double with 110 BCD instead? That will give you the option of changing the small ring to anything you like.
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorad View Post
    I don't think I can do 100 miles yet, especially if there is a time-limit. Based on my fatigue level after 52 miles, I don't think I could make more than 65 miles (7 hours?) tops.
    Maybe, but the psychologic factor can be big. Most people are physically capable of riding farther than they think.

    If you have the mindset to do a 30 mile ride, 25 miles comes pretty easy and the last 5 can be hard. If you have a 50 mile mindset, the first 40 or 45 miles will come pretty easy and the last 5 or 10 can be hard. The last hill always feels the hardest and the last mile always feels the longest.

  21. #21
    Peddlin' Around Detroit Motorad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
    Maybe, but the psychologic factor can be big. Most people are physically capable of riding farther than they think.

    If you have the mindset to do a 30 mile ride, 25 miles comes pretty easy and the last 5 can be hard. If you have a 50 mile mindset, the first 40 or 45 miles will come pretty easy and the last 5 or 10 can be hard. The last hill always feels the hardest and the last mile always feels the longest.
    Good words, Retro. Will begin working on a 65 mile-mindset.

  22. #22
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    Howabout working on a reward mindset...as in I'll have a coupla pints of that at the end? Or, if you're a competitive personality...make a bet with a buddy or family member that you can finish! if you set it at $100.00 it'll be unbelievably motivating!!

    I put down a deposit on a saluki and am struggling with the size. The shop is pushing me towards a 52 saluki with 54.5 top tube (31 pbh but long torso, overall 66 inches). I have a Jamis Coda elite (hybrid 700cc, flatbar) that's already a tt equiv of 54.5 but feels short for some reason - as if I'm falling over the front. I'm wonder if I can do a 56cm top tube?

    How did your saluki fitting compare with that of your other bikes?
    Last edited by Bnylo; 08-31-07 at 11:41 AM.

  23. #23
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    One of the things that gets me whenever I go on an organised long ride- Is the "Stuff" people carry with them on the ride. I see bikes with panniers fitted- Large toolbags- An "Extra" topcoat wrapped round the tup tube and held in place with Bungees- or haversacks that are so large- it must hurt after just a few miles.

    All you need for a 100mile ride- Is for the bike to have been checked over before the ride and whatever you carry on a 20 mile ride. For me that is 2 water bottles-Pump and a saddle wedge with spare tube- levers and repair kit and possibly a multi tool. Only extra I will take is enough Snacks and cereal bars for the first part of the ride and Trust I can find a shop to buy extra at.

    As to what to wear on the ride- I decide on the strength of the local weather forecast and what it is doing at the start. I will take leggings- top coat- fleece- Showerproof and any other bike related clothing I have in the car and decide what I am going to wear when I get there. I do not carry the whole lot around with me - just in case.

    So look at the Saluki and get it lightened. That bike is comfortable so use it- Unless you can get the Corvette well sorted in time to fit and be comfortable.
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  24. #24
    Peddlin' Around Detroit Motorad's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone for the good tips for long ride preparations.

    Bnylo:
    My response is limited in having only been measured for two bikes. I cut'n'pasted some research I did before buying my Saluki. Two things in my research were made clear, at least for me:
    1. It is not possible for me to accurately measure my pubic bone height. Best to have your measurements taken by an LBS that is set up to do measurements for bike fitting purposes. On a given day, if I tried to measure my PBH in cm-units, I would have six different documented PBHs out of ten measured PBHs.
    2. Rivendell's recommended Saluki bike sizes ... based on your PBH ... tend to run bigger than recommended bike sizes listed by other manufacturers. For example: I was measured to be on a size 48 Serotta Legend (700C wheels), but was measured to be on a size 50 Saluki (650B). The size 48 is (if I remember correctly) the smallest size that Serotta makes their Legend on 700C wheels.

    Custom Rivendell: Two Year Waiting List?
    " ... if somebody got the wrong size from Rivendell, chances are better that the buyer got a bike too small from Rivendell, instead of too big.

    Being vertically challenged (5'3"), I thought I would barely straddle their smallest Saluki: Size 47 with estimated standover height of 73.5 cm. In fact, I put a down payment on a Size 47 ... because ... I used a tape measure with inch-units ... to guestimate that my 29" PBH measurement would translate to a 74 cm PBH.

    It was not until about three weeks after I put a down payment on my Saluki, that I had a professional fitting, to verify that my actual PBH was 75.75 cm. I immediately changed my bike order from Size 47 to Size 50. Their Size 50's approximate standover height is 75 cm.

    The moral of the story: Get a professional fitting before buying a high dollar bike. And trust the Rivendell-recommended frame sizes, that they base on your (professionally measured) PBH and saddle height."

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