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Old 09-18-07, 01:53 PM   #1
Motorad
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When is the best time to buy DA triple-gruppo?

I'm still deciding on which drivetrain to initially set up for my road bike. Based on 400+ miles on a touring style bike (Saluki) with a 12/27 Nine-Speed cassette ... and 46-36-24 chainrings ... I'm warming up to the notion of a triple ring drivetrain for the Ten-Speed 12/27 roadie. We don't have hills to speak of in Southeast Michigan ... but ... after mile 40, the granny gear has come in handy when bonking up short but steep overpasses. And there was one little hill on the Kensington metropark MUP ... near Orchard picnic area ... that I could not make with the middle 36-T chainring.

90 percent of my riding on the 35 pound Saluki has been on the middle 36T-ring. Dropping down to the 24T-ring when bonking up the steep overpasses, I was in the two middle cogs and spinning at about 6 MPH. The 35 pound-bike on level ground is not too bad, but you feel the weight when going uphill.

The roadie will probably be less than 20 pounds. Based on my riding style with the heavier Saluki, I can warm up to the idea of the roadie having a triple crank that is in the 30-40-50 tooth range. If wanting to stick to the Dura Ace triple-gruppo, the only choice would be the DA-triple's "FC-7803" crankset: 30-39-52.

If Shimano were to upgrade their DA triple-gruppo, would this be done at the start of the fiscal year (October-ish) ... or at the start of the calendar year? I ask, to wonder if I should wait before considering when to buy a DA-triple gruppo.

Out of curiousity, regarding the model number "FC-7803" ... what does the "FC" signify ... and what does the "7803" signify. How would I know if a DA-triple on the market is a 2007-model or a 2008-model? Would the next upgrade be listed as an "FC-7903"? And lastly, has there been scuttlebutt of a pending revision to Shimano's DA-triple crankset ... that is going to be made available soon?
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Old 09-18-07, 03:49 PM   #2
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In the 10 speed world you would probably get the same results for less with ultegra equipment. The DA equipment is definately pro race material and you are paying bucks for grams.

As to current availability, the Shimano Website usually lists the current and only the current models of equipment. You can go there a collect all of the data and instruction sheets as soon as Shimano makes them available.
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Old 09-18-07, 07:18 PM   #3
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And the answer is...



When it goes on sale! (Sorry, I just couldn't resist.)
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Old 09-18-07, 07:37 PM   #4
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This is one instance where I have to disagree with the stock "Dura-Ace isn't worth it" statement.

While I'd agree that the difference between Ultegra and Dura-Ace is probably something to think about for double drivetrains, the Dura-Ace triple derailleurs shift so well and feather so nicely (considerably better than Ultegra triple RD's) that the extra dough for those Two pieces is well worth it IMO.
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Old 09-18-07, 08:49 PM   #5
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The 7 stands for Dura ace. Ultegra would start with a 6 and on down the line. The 8 means this the 8 version of the 7000 series. The 3 means triple. The 0 doesn't mean anything, yet. If Shimano makes any changes, which they always seem to do, you will know the new models have come out because they will be 7903. I believe FC stands for freehub cassette.
Considering the 15 lb. weight difference, I think a 30t small ring will be plenty with a 12/27 cassette.
Work on avoiding bonking. Nutrition and hydration are the keys. If you are only using the 2 middle cogs when in granny, you can get the same gear ratio in the middle ring. Check out Sheldon Brown's gear calculator.
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Old 09-18-07, 09:06 PM   #6
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I currently ride a triple 52/42/32 9 speed cassette 13/26, I was considering going to a compact double 50/34 11/26 10 speed cassette. This would only sacrifice a little in the low end but give me more in the top end. The compact seemed to me to be the better combination. Unfortunately the new bike I just ordered only was available with a triple 53/39/30 12/26 10 speed cassette - a weird combo but I'll give it a try. Although the group is Ultegra (DA rear d) the crank is FSA - SLK Mega, you can run other cranksets with the shimano FD.

What you may want to do is set your self up a little spread sheet and play with the gear ratios. You may not want to go to far from what you are currently comfortable with.
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Old 09-19-07, 08:05 AM   #7
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Thanks for input. The OP discusses current bike (35 lbs...12/27 9-Speed...46-36-24 crankset), and when to buy for most updated DA-triple gruppo for roadie (20 lbs...12/27 [12/25?] 10-Speed)

I have begun using my outer chainring more on the touring bike, to determine if I can accommodate a leap from a touring bike's 46T-ring ... to a roadie's 52T-ring. So far, it seems do-able.
Coincedentally, based on last night's ride on the touring bike, I must be improving my stamina. Usually there is wind when I get onto Hines Drive in the Dearborn area, and I usually ride the smaller cogs on the middle ring. Last night there was no wind, so when I got to 15MPH, I decided to increase pedal resistance by shifting to the big ring ... but could not shift to a higher ring.
After riding a mile in the dark, I stopped under a street light. It turns out I had been riding the smaller cogs on the outer 46T-ring and didn't realize I was already on the larger ring.

While riding a steep overpass by the Rouge plant in Dearborn last night, I gave more thought of the granny gear, and I'm sold on having one on the roadie. The little hill on the Kensington metropark ... that I could not make on the heavy bike's middle 36T ring ... was about an hour after eating a good meal, and after riding about 6 miles.
The touring bike's middle ring has 36T, and I have trouble using it sometimes in SE Michigan. If I put a double crankset on the roadie, the small ring could have 34, 36, or 39 teeth. But even if the roadie is 15 lbs lighter than the touring bike, I would still want to be on a chainring that is at most 30T when going up a steep hill.
Stepfam made a comment in another message, that now makes more sense to me. In so many words, he said that a 34 (chainring)/27 (cog) is not low enough to comfortably go up a hill.
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Old 09-19-07, 10:04 AM   #8
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Keep an eye on Probikekit.com they frequently have Shimano groups at big discounts. Right now they have the new Ultegra SL group at 20% discount and the Ultegra group for 25%, however it is only the doubles.

http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?cat=Groupsets
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Old 09-19-07, 11:22 AM   #9
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Does Shimano still make a Dura-Ace triple?
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Old 09-19-07, 11:25 AM   #10
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BTW, I have the full kit for the DA-7800-double gruppo, sitting at my LBS in their unopened boxes. It came with a 165mm crankarm ... and a 39-53 crankset that I was going to Frankenstein into a 39-50 crank. I bought the unused kit I believe in May, because I did not expect to receive my Saluki as soon as I did and bought the kit without knowing my riding style.

What would be the best way to recover most of my cost for the kit (with or without the 10-Speed 12/27 cassette), and is it acceptable for me to offer it for sale in this forum? My LBS could be a point of contact if that would provide credibility on the DA 7800-double gruppo being offered.
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Old 09-19-07, 11:38 AM   #11
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eBay or Craigs list. Not here.
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Old 09-19-07, 11:39 AM   #12
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Since you are a member you can post it in the BF For Sale Forum

http://www.bikeforums.net/sale/
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Old 09-19-07, 01:38 PM   #13
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Does Shimano still make a Dura-Ace triple?
I don't know, John, I don't see it on the website.
http://bike.shimano.com/catalog/cycl...=1190230976762
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Old 09-19-07, 01:44 PM   #14
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Does Shimano still make a Dura-Ace triple?
Yes, I have 2007 DuraAce w/triple on a bent. It's listed on many mail order sites.

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Old 09-19-07, 01:49 PM   #15
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Wonder why not on their website? Maybe they're not proud of it.
O.K., found one.http://wheelworld.com/itemdetails.cf...gId=39&id=4396

Last edited by big john; 09-19-07 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 09-19-07, 02:13 PM   #16
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I don't know, John, I don't see it on the website.
http://bike.shimano.com/catalog/cycl...=1190230976762
No? Then what is this?
http://bike.shimano.com/catalog/cycl...=1190233063291
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Old 09-19-07, 02:45 PM   #17
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http://tinyurl.com/ypj9jl
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Old 09-19-07, 02:46 PM   #18
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beat me to it.
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Old 09-19-07, 03:24 PM   #19
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I just saw it on the Colorado Cyclist website, also.
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Old 09-19-07, 03:39 PM   #20
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Guess I'm web-site challenged.
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Old 09-19-07, 03:42 PM   #21
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I just saw it on the Colorado Cyclist website, also.
Yeah $400 on sale. It was $549 at the one I found.
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Old 09-19-07, 03:54 PM   #22
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Yeah $400 on sale. It was $549 at the one I found.
Yikes!

I'm not sure there ever has been or ever will be a crankset worth that much.
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Old 09-19-07, 08:26 PM   #23
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There aren't any great deals on the DA triple stuff, at least not very often. Much better to get the Ultegra crank for Two bills and buy the DA bits that make a difference.
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Old 09-20-07, 05:02 AM   #24
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Road Bike Action has excellent things to say about the newest version of Ultegra. ie the reviewers cannot tell the difference between the shifting on the Ultegra vs Dura-Ace. (the SL variant)
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Old 09-20-07, 05:27 AM   #25
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Yikes!

I'm not sure there ever has been or ever will be a crankset worth that much.
That is pretty crazy when they where selling a whole double group for about $750 a few weeks ago.
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