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Old 09-20-07, 10:04 AM   #1
Motorad
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Shift Lever Choices for DA-Triple Gruppo

I've gone from the hand-grip shifters of my Trek 730 (about a 1993 model) ... to the bar end shifters on my Saluki. It took a while getting used to the bar end shifters, but now I love them, especially when riding in the drops. The brake levers on the hood of the Saluki is convenient for me, at least when considering that ... when I anticipate the need for braking ... my hands would be on the hood.

Studying Shimano's Dura-Ace 7803 gruppo components, I'm left confused on the following points:
* Bar End shifters are available ... but I see no brake levers listed ... for either the DA 7800-Double or the DA 7803-Triple.
* STI Dual Control levers are available ... for both the DA 7800-Double and the DA 7803-Triple.
* If I were to read into the choice of components, I could be led to believe that Shimano is encouraging the use of STI Dual Control levers ... versus ... the use of bar end shifters and separate brake levers.

Some questions please:
1. Is there more potential for maintenance problems with STI Dual Control levers, considering it's a two-fer device (both a shifter and a braker)?
2. Why doesn't Shimano offer brake levers on their website, for those who would opt to use bar end shifters?
3. Based on the difference in shifting styles ... between the 7800 Double and the 7803 Triple ... would one type of shifter be preferred over the other for the 7800 ... and ... vice versa preferred for the 7803?
4. Which shifter do you prefer? It may help us to specify your crankset setup, to understand your preference.
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Old 09-20-07, 10:32 AM   #2
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If all you want is the brake lever, then you will find it under the High Grade components section. I do not think that Shimano makes a Dura-Ace specific brake lever.

Personal preference will have a lot to do with whether or not you like STI's as different from Bar ends and Distinct brake levers.
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Old 09-20-07, 01:24 PM   #3
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Avoiding the brifter vs. bar end debate for the moment, if you choose to go with separate brake levers, you have several options. Shimano has the R600 and lower level R400 levers. But when it comes to levers for normal road brakes, they all work with everything. Dia Compe makes a few models. Tektro has the R200 models which have a larger grip area similar to Campagnolo's levers (which would also work) that many people find more comfortable than the narrower Shimano grip. They also have a quick release built into the brake levers that can help when using larger tires. They come in black or silver and there is even a brown hood version to mimic the old gum hood levers. They also have a compact version for smaller hands. Cane Creek has a version of the Tektro lever, the SCR-5.
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Old 09-20-07, 03:22 PM   #4
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I vote strongly in favor of separate barcons and brake handles -- you can mix and match all you want, and the combination works very well.
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Old 09-20-07, 08:27 PM   #5
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Another alternative is Campy Ergo using the Jtec ShiftMate.
http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm
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Old 09-21-07, 05:41 AM   #6
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I don't think you would have any problems with a combined STI system, I know I have had none and love them. I would also think that Shinamo supports a dual system since so many TT bikes use Dura Ace, but then it may just be for doubles since I don't think there are many people doing TTs on triples
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Old 09-21-07, 07:39 AM   #7
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I don't think you would have any problems with a combined STI system, I know I have had none and love them. I would also think that Shinamo supports a dual system since so many TT bikes use Dura Ace, but then it may just be for doubles since I don't think there are many people doing TTs on triples
If you are talking about bar end shifters, the triple crank is no problem at all. Front shifting with bar end shifters has always been friction. You could put 5 rings up there and it would still work. Front indexing on triples is a problem, not a solution.
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Old 09-21-07, 08:11 AM   #8
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I've used bar end shifters off and on for 25 years and currently have them on three bikes. Love 'em.
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Old 09-21-07, 08:35 AM   #9
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Thanks everyone for input. With no prejudice to the STI-system ... which I haven't tried ... I'll set the roadie up with separate shifting & braking levers.

I'll have to go with one of Bluesdawg's brake lever recommendations: The Cane Creek compact SCR-5, for a few reasons.
* I have small hands, so a compact lever would make sense.
* They look & feel good. The Riv folks recommended my Saluki to come with the SCR-5, possibly because of my small hands, but not sure on reason. See picture below of Cane Creek compact levers.
* I would have the same feel for the brake levers ... if the same brake levers were on my touring & roadie bikes.
* Bluesdawg indicated that the SCR-5 is a version of the Tektro ... and the Tektro has a quick release built into the brake levers that can help when using larger tires.

Questions please:
1. With the SCR-5 brake levers, is there a guestimate on how wide the roadie tires can be? Is this question also dependant on the type of brake calipers I get? The roadie will be set up with 25mm tires, but for either comfort or for fall/winter riding I may want to go with 28mm tires. So the question is ... with the SCR-5 levers, how wide can the tires be, and still fit inside the brake calipers?
2. My LBS will put the bike together for me, and fit me to size on it. What goes into the thought process ... on where to place the levers on the handlebars? For example, on my Saluki, the brake levers are around the 1:30 o'clock position.

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Old 09-21-07, 10:08 AM   #10
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I have SCR-5 levers on my all-purpose road bike, Uncle Duke. Love the fat grip. Every application will vary, but with the quick release on the brake calipers and the ones on the levers, I would think 28mm tires would go on with room to spare. I have been running 28mm tires on my main road bike, Ribby, for years with Shimano levers with no quick release feature. I get only a minor rub slipping the tires between the brake pads with only the quick release on the calipers.
What size tires are on your Saluki?

Lever position is up to you. If you like the position on your Saluki, you can match it. Or try something different.
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Old 09-21-07, 02:00 PM   #11
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What size tires are on your Saluki?
The Saluki is only geared for 650B wheels. My bike has the 650B x 33 mm Maxy Fasty tires:
< http://www.rivbike.com/products/list...product=10-087 >. I run them at max pressure of 75 PSI, and they're pretty comfortable on the shoddy roads I ride on.
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Old 09-21-07, 10:53 PM   #12
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I used the Tektro R 200 levers when I built the Bianchi, and I can tell you that I love them. That fat grip is way more comfortable than Shimano or Dia-Comp. The QR on the lever is the cats ass, especially with the Campy brake calipers that I used because there is no QR on the calipers. If/when I do another build the R 200 will be my 1st choice. And you can't beat the price.
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Old 10-03-07, 07:35 AM   #13
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Okay, a huge rock has been lifted off my chest. Wait, my chest isn't that big ...
A middle-size rock has been lifted off my chest. My final decision is to go with a triple group, so I'll try to hook up with my LBS today for follow-up with my roadie frame.

I've pretty much narrowed down the pieces ... except one: Barcon for triple 10-speed. Recommendations for bar end shifters, for a DA 7803 triple?
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Old 10-03-07, 07:43 AM   #14
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Okay, a huge rock has been lifted off my chest. Wait, my chest isn't that big ...
A middle-size rock has been lifted off my chest. My final decision is to go with a triple group, so I'll try to hook up with my LBS today for follow-up with my roadie frame.

I've pretty much narrowed down the pieces ... except one: Barcon for triple 10-speed. Recommendations for bar end shifters, for a DA 7803 triple?
DA bar end shifters are friction front. Work with both double and triple.
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Old 10-03-07, 07:43 AM   #15
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What's to choose? You'll need 10 speed Dura Ace bar end shifters. I don't know of anything else, new or old that would work.
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Old 10-03-07, 08:06 AM   #16
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Thanks, I guess the DA bar shifters would complement the DA group.

Also, I see that the bottom bracket is the same for both the DA-double and DA-triple crankset. Should I only go with Shimano's SM-FC7800 BB for the DA-triple ... or are there better alternatives? I don't know the engineering decisions behind these. But I do know the Phil Woods cartridge that came with my Saluki's Sugino XD2 (46/36/26) is very smooth and very quiet. Recommendations on BB for the 7803 triple, such as the Phil Wood cartridge, or stick with the DA-BB?
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Old 10-03-07, 08:09 AM   #17
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Do you always have this much trouble making decisions?

(I don't think PW makes a BB compatible with that crank)
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Old 10-03-07, 08:18 AM   #18
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Do you always have this much trouble making decisions?

(I don't think PW makes a BB compatible with that crank)
No, I don't. Wait, sometimes I do ... oh, skip it.
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Old 10-03-07, 08:45 AM   #19
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I don't think there is a bottom bracket exactly. Just the 2 external cups and bearings and they probably don't care what crankset is there. (double or triple)

Last edited by maddmaxx; 10-03-07 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 10-03-07, 09:59 AM   #20
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I really like these Cane Creek Brake levers that Rivendell sells http://www.rivbike.com/products/list...product=15-122.

A lot like the Campy Ergo's with quick release.

I have the DA bar end shifters. I prefer my old Sun Tour bar cons and may go back and look for some on ebay this winter when I'll tool with the bikes.
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Old 10-03-07, 10:23 AM   #21
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I really like these Cane Creek Brake levers that Rivendell sells http://www.rivbike.com/products/list...product=15-122.

A lot like the Campy Ergo's with quick release.

I have the DA bar end shifters. I prefer my old Sun Tour bar cons and may go back and look for some on ebay this winter when I'll tool with the bikes.
I think he already chose those brake levers earlier on. I agree on the Suntour bar ends. That's what I use on both of my road bikes. But I don't think I would want to use friction shifting with the narrow spacing on a 10 speed. It could be done, but I don't think it would be as effortless as with 8 speeds or less.
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Old 10-03-07, 12:58 PM   #22
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I think he already chose those brake levers earlier on. I agree on the Suntour bar ends. That's what I use on both of my road bikes. But I don't think I would want to use friction shifting with the narrow spacing on a 10 speed. It could be done, but I don't think it would be as effortless as with 8 speeds or less.
My bad on the brake levers. I find the DA bar end shifters not as accurate in friction for some reason. The Suntour was effortless and easy for friction. I'm using 7 gears now. I'm sure with the spacing, 10 might be a little tough for friction.
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Old 10-03-07, 04:10 PM   #23
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My Saluki came with a DA bar end, 9 Speed Kit. I think I learned by accident (with my knee) about how to trim the gears with the shifters. The 9 Speed kit from Shimano are smooth and work pretty good.
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