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Old 09-29-07, 07:18 PM   #1
Motorad
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How Do Components Become DA Components?

Not saying that DA is the best, but it appears to be considered the best that Shimano offers. With my putzing with triple-chainrings to choose from, I have to ask: How come there is only one choice for a triple chainring: FC-7803?

It would appear that the 50-39-30 triple would be the cat's meow for me, when paired with a 12-27 10-speed, because the resulting gear inches would be pretty useful for my type of riding.

So, why just one triple-ring choice for the DA ... and how do we lobby Congress for the addition of the 50-39-30T to the DA group? How does Shimano decide what John Q. Public wants, before Shimano incorporates new components into their different groups?
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Old 09-29-07, 08:02 PM   #2
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The DA triple isn't the best choice, in my opinion. It seems almost like the DA triple was an afterthought. If I were to recommend a Shimano road triple, it would be the Ultegra. Of course, for off-road, the XTR is just too cool for words. I do not know whether the XTR derailleurs are compatible with road brifters. I rather suspect not, but like I said, I don't know.

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Old 09-29-07, 08:32 PM   #3
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My wild guess: Racers and OCP types, which are the key market segments for DA don't provide a ready market for triple chainrings--even if their knees are about to explode.
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Old 09-29-07, 08:47 PM   #4
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Probably not a lot of demand for a 50 ring on a Dura Ace crank. I would think that most people image conscious enough to buy a crank costing twice the price of an excellent offering from the same company would also not be willing to suffer the derision of their peers by having useable gearing.
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Old 09-29-07, 09:25 PM   #5
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Some people brag about what they can climb with a double, and how they don't use the "granny gear".

Heck, if I ever get to brag it will be that I can climb anything with low enough gearing.

I mean, if you're not gonna use that little chain ring then what are you draggin' it along for?
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Old 09-29-07, 09:41 PM   #6
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I mean, if you're not gonna use that little chain ring then what are you draggin' it along for?
10% hill at mile 85 of a Century?
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Old 09-29-07, 10:26 PM   #7
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Why do you want a 50 big ring on a triple? Why not go to a compact crankset if this is all you want on the top end.
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Old 09-29-07, 10:29 PM   #8
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As far as DA goes - I can't help remembering a ride I was on, we came to a rest stop and one of the guys riding Ultegra went into the bushes to relieve himself, upon return it was suggested he just performed the poor mans DA upgrade.
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Old 09-29-07, 10:46 PM   #9
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Why do you want a 50 big ring on a triple? Why not go to a compact crankset if this is all you want on the top end.
Why would not needing an extremely high top gear make you not want a lower low gear and a more useful middle range? I have been using a 30/40/50 triple for several years and it is a great setup.
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Old 09-29-07, 10:56 PM   #10
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Ultegra (or Chorus) will take you anywhere you need to go with smooth, reliable function. And, really, what else is there but vanity? D/A weighs a smidgen less and, if you're lucky, will hold up as well as Ultegra. I'd love to give up on the 600 short cage I use on my frequently ridden 9spd but the little bugger just won't die. Upper crust racers don't often use triples because if you have to go that low you probably won't be staying with the pack. Shimano marketers understand, however, there are more of "us" than there are OCP/racers. (Blown knees keep thinning out those OCP types.)

D/A is the most costly, but may not be, in all cases, The Best for any given rider.

** For flats, rolling, and the foothills, I ride 52/39 (remember those--pre compact stuff). For the steeps, I'm happy with 48/36/26 x 25....I seldom use my really lowest gears, but on a few bonky occasions I've kissed that 26 granny-- as have my 60 y.o. knees.

Last edited by CrossChain; 09-29-07 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 09-30-07, 04:49 AM   #11
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My wild guess: Racers and OCP types, which are the key market segments for DA don't provide a ready market for triple chainrings--even if their knees are about to explode.
DA is racer technology. Mechanically, Ultegra has the same features at the expense of a few more grams (yes grams) of weight. The dollar per gram ratio is very high. There are almost no times that the racers are going to use a triple. Lance climbed Ventoux on a 39/53 with a 12/23

Reviews in the latest "Road Bike Action" have stated that the shifting action of Ultegra SL cannot be differentiated from Dura Ace.

Its still my opinion that the money you will save on this group could be better used in other areas of the bike like wheels or tires and provide more performance gain gram for gram.

Last edited by maddmaxx; 09-30-07 at 06:51 AM.
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Old 09-30-07, 06:39 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monoborracho View Post
Some people brag about what they can climb with a double, and how they don't use the "granny gear".

Heck, if I ever get to brag it will be that I can climb anything with low enough gearing.

I mean, if you're not gonna use that little chain ring then what are you draggin' it along for?
I see that all of the time. We get to the top of a steep hill and most the people in the group brag that they didn't use their granny. The funny thing, though, is that the people who did, often beat people that don't.

Seriously, it's just another tool and using it is not a sign of weakness.
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Old 09-30-07, 07:06 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by oilman_15106 View Post
Why do you want a 50 big ring on a triple? Why not go to a compact crankset if this is all you want on the top end.
Triple has 2 advantages: lower bottom gears, and closer ratios in the upper range, for pacelining. Compacts are neither as low at the bottom, nor as close at the top.

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Old 09-30-07, 07:53 AM   #14
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Have a triple on the Giant- 52/42/30 and Compact on the other 50/34. Never use the 52 or if I do- then I consciously have to think that I am going on a down slope and I might as well save the middle ring from some wear. I could really just get on with the two rings of 30 and 42. However that 50 on the compact- just a fraction smaller gets utilised 50 % of the time on the other bike.

There comes a limit to the gear you can pull. And for me a 52 is just that too high.But up a long hill that just goes on and on- 34/27 or 30/26 comes in handy.
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Old 09-30-07, 08:03 AM   #15
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DuraAce = Do you race.
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Old 09-30-07, 08:44 AM   #16
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I do not know whether the XTR derailleurs are compatible with road brifters. I rather suspect not, but like I said, I don't know.

-soma5
They are.........I have a XTR rear derailleur and use DuraAce 9 speed road brifters on the bike I use for road rides in the mountains (any of the Shimano 9 speed brifters would work). When combined with a 50/34 compact crank and a 11/32 cassette it provides and an even wider range of gears than a 50/40/30 triple with a 12/27 cassette-with a little less weight. Shifting is very efficient and reliable when combined with Shimano's R700 compact...... I've never had any shifting issues. Not sure what more folks don't lean towards that type of setup.......I never seemed to be able to get a triple front chainring completely dialed in......at least that latest for a full season.........
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Old 09-30-07, 09:53 AM   #17
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I have various DA components on my bikes but have only bought DA deliberately once. I get a lot used, in trade, or when flipping bikes - and buy everything on sale with discounts and promotions.
Three bikes now have DA barcons 9 speed friction/index. They are the best quality at a good price. I have a wheelset with DA hubs on my son's Univega - [originally from my Paramount]. I swapped it out for a DA/Mavic wheelset. My Paramount came full DA. The DA RD I bought on sale [for my Miyata] complements the DA barcons, and the DA FD I got in trade (they do look great).
I did build my Fuji commuter/road bike as a 9 speed Ultegra as the performance/price leader. It is a great group. I've also built and sold a couple road bikes with 105 and Ultegra.
Some of my favorite vintage components are Suntour derailleurs - SuperBe, VTLuxe, and especially Cyclone.
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Old 09-30-07, 02:50 PM   #18
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Some of my favorite vintage components are Suntour derailleurs - SuperBe, VTLuxe, and especially Cyclone.
Ah, my criterium setup in the mid-'70s was Suntour barcons and a Cyclone rear derailleur. Sugino Mighty Comp crankset with 52/44 gearing, 13-17 straight block 5-speed freewheel. The Cyclone required so little cable pull that you'd go through the entire range with about 1/3 of the range of motion of the barcons. Oh, yeah, Dura Ace hubs and brakes. Campy Super Leggero pedals. Wotta mishmash! I loved that bike.

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Old 09-30-07, 09:47 PM   #19
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Ah, my criterium setup in the mid-'70s was Suntour barcons and a Cyclone rear derailleur. Sugino Mighty Comp crankset with 52/44 gearing, 13-17 straight block 5-speed freewheel. The Cyclone required so little cable pull that you'd go through the entire range with about 1/3 of the range of motion of the barcons. Oh, yeah, Dura Ace hubs and brakes. Campy Super Leggero pedals. Wotta mishmash! I loved that bike.

-soma5
I had a similar setup on my 72 Fuji Finest except Suntour V. Really performed great! Suntour stuff just rocked!

I have DA and Ultegra on two bikes I have today. DA is quicker shifting, Ultegra very close. LBS says Ultegra will last longer. I'll let ya know in a so many years.
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