tom cotter

Those who haven't bought a new car in the past four years or so are in for a big change in they way they drive. Almost all cars today are drive-by-wire. That is; there is no mechanical link between the gas pedal and the engine. Some cars like my 2006 Town Car and 2007 Camry have signifcant lag issues. The Camry is fixed and the Lincoln was unfixable and is gone. Other cars, like my neighbor's 2007 Accord are being bought back by the manufacturer. If you are in the market for a new car beware that this problem is out there. It doesn't affect all cars, I put over 3000 miles on Town Car loaners that drove just fine. And another friend's 07 Accord drives just fine. Still, the problem is widespread enough that buyers should be made aware. To protect yourself a long test drive would be a good start.

Some fun!. Anyway, still waiting for the new pedal-by-wire system for my next bike.

Ken Brown

Don't think I will ever again buy a new car, for the simple reason that I am not driving much now that I am retired. My next one will probably be 3 to 5 years old and have at least 50,000 miles on it. If I don't buy new, that solves the issue of potentially buggy new technology. On the other hand, I want a new bike!

big john

This technology has been around since the 90s. As a mechanic/technician I have to deal with these systems and others. Some of our cars have 25 computers on board. Tricky stuff. I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a new car, if I could justify the expense.
As far as buy-backs, it has been my experience that nearly all buy backs are a result of customers not wanting the car anymore for reasons other than something being wrong with the car. It's very rare that we find something actually wrong with a buy-back, and even then, it's usually because the technician who was working on it didn't care enough or know enough to fix it. Some other buy backs are sabotaged by the owners, and we have proven that before.
Don't fear the new stuff, just pick your car carefully, and try to find a dealer you can trust, (good luck).

tpelle

I had lusted after a Ford Mustang for years - but was driving an indestructable Toyota 4x4 pickup so I had no good excuse for buying another vehicle. When the Toyota reached 13 years old, and started having "issues", I decided to take the leap. This was in late 2004, and the new style 2005 Mustang was already on the showroom floors.

I compared the two:

The 2005 had an aluminum block, while the 2004 was still cast-iron.
The 2005 was drive-by-wire, while the 2004 still had a cable connection to the throttle plate.
The 2005 had these weird windows that automatically rolled down 1/2 inch as you opened the door, and rolled back up when you closed the door - I wonder how long that's gonna work.
The 2005 was bigger and bulkier than the 2004.
The 2005 was selling for $5000 over the sticker price, while the 2004 was selling for $7000 under.

On December 21 of 2004 I had a brand new Ford Mustang sitting in my garage that I paid $13,685 for. Because of my frequent business travel where I use rental cars, and because I still drive my old Toyota on bad weather days, my 2004 Mustang has first just cracked 13,000 miles. It's going to last me a long time.

shmulb

The 2007 Passat had the same delay problem, After a year VW issued a computer fix. 20 minutes in the shop and the problem is history

solveg

You want a delay* problem, It took months to figure out why my Subaru was responding so poorly to the gas pedal. It would accelerate up to 15 mph then do NOTHING until some random moment when it would rev up to speed, perhaps 2 blocks later. Very unsafe.

Ended up being a microphone that listened to the engine and told the other parts of the car how to behave. That was a most expensive discovery.

big john

That sounds like a knock sensor problem. The knock sensor system is supposed to ****** the ignition timing when the engine starts pinging, usually due to crappy fuel. If you have a malfunction, you could end up with timing being ******** when you need it advanced.
This is an advantage to a new car dealer. We are familiar (supposedly) with our product and can often guess the problem based on tendencies of past problems. This is why I refer to myself as a professional guesser.

fitman1

My wife had a serious wreck about 2 weeks ago in her 2007 Camry - she was turning left with an amber light and a pickup truck decided to run the light. She said that she was amazed that he didn't stop but even more amazed that when she gave it more gas nothing happened. She's 'OK' with a broken rib. The Camry was totaled.

We picked up a new Camry for her on Friday. Drive by wire is much improved for 2008.

PaulH

I've had the same car, a Mercedes 500SE, for nearly 22 years. It's new enough to have ABS brakes and a computer-controlled engine, but old enough not to be loaded down with the silly electronic trinkets that later cars are infected with. My bike rack easily attaches to the trunk and is a great aid when taking either car or bike in for service.

Paul

solveg

It was* those poor guys at the Subaru dealership that dealt with my car. It never really duplicated the problem for them. It was sporadic. Finally, an engine light went on and we knew what the problem was.

John E

My 2001 Passat wagon is drive-by-wire, and the system has been nearly flawless for 7 years and 40k miles / 65k km of mostly severe service congested suburban driving. When the idle got a bit rough earlier this year, I pulled, cleaned, and reinstalled the throttle body and the mass air flow sensor. This is the only maintenance or repair work I have needed to do on the throttle system . The car is no ball of fire, but its performance is more than adequate. (My wife and I have almost always driven underpowered cars.) My wife sometimes complains a little about turbo lag with the 150hp 1.8T / tipronic combination when accelerating from a dead stop, but I can minimize this by finessing the gas pedal. In the critical 30-to-60 mph / 50-to-100 kph range, there is plenty of power for merging safely onto a freeway.

John E

How has your experience been with the electronic parking brake? To me, it is a completely pointless, useless, failure-prone gimmick and a strong argument against trading my 2001 Passat in for a newer model.

shmulb

That was the first thing I asked the dealer. But in over a year we have never had a problem with it. I believe it has a backup power system so even with no power it will still work. I know it does work even when the car is off.

big john

That's what I mean by guesser. I can't duplicate a complaint, but I know that a particular model has a particular tendency, and the usual fix is this part or program, etc. I can also access the data through G.M. and find out what other people have done to fix that problem nationwide. This doesn't always help, btw. Sometimes cars just suck.

BSLeVan

Unlike bicycles, I have no interest in how my car works. All I want is to be able to get in it, start it and have it do what it's supposed to do. I didn't even know that there was any other possibility than a mechanical link between the gas pedal and engine. Hence, I always look for the best warranty and quality service I can find. If it doesn't work, I want to take it back and have them fix it; I really don't want to think about it beyond that.

Having said all of that, I would be appalled if someone I ride with said that about a bike. Hence, there are probably "motor heads" (term we used in high school to describe people very into cars) out there who can't understand my lack of interest. Now, here's my real question.... is this a real design flaw, or just something that the bugs have yet to be worked out? I mean the first brifters were less than perfect, but today they function pretty reliably. And the new tubeless clinchers are sure to go through growing pains if they are ever to become mainstream. But maybe these aren't fair comparisons.

tom cotter

BG, I've gotta say you sound just like the service manager at the dealership. "There's nothing wrong with that car- that's the way they're supposed to drive- you must be doing something to it" or my all time favorite when my Black Grand Cherokee's air conditioner stopped working "It's a black car with a black interior, it's suppoed to be hot in the summer."

BG, I know you mean well, but cut us a break! From this side of the service counter, we're tired of being blamed, demeaned, and dismissed. Manufacturers not wanting to fix problems is an ages old profit saving tactic. Case in point the 97-99 Malibu. A poor excuse for a car if ever there was one. GM was caught denying warranty claims. Ford did all it could to avoid fixing the car. Toyota, to their credit stepped up and fixed the car.

As for buying back cars that aren't lemons, never happened. lemon laws are too strong for that to happen. Unfortunately, i've had two vehicles that I turned back to the dealer. The process was so time consuming and frustrating that in the case of my 06 Lincoln I decided it wasn't worth the effort. The difference between the fully "problem disclosed" trade in value and what Ford would give on a buy back was only a few thousand dollars. A that level it just isn't worth the effort to do a buy back.

I will agree with you on one point, most of the mechanics i've seen at the Ford, Jeep, and BMW dealerships don't know what they're doing.

stringbreaker

My wifes 2003 Saturn ION just hit 39,000 miles and when she took it to the dealer for service she informed them of a noise coming from the rotating mass somewhere. Turns out it was the front wheelbearing/hub assembly were going out on both sides. This car had been out of warranty just 3000 miles. How convenient. To our surprise Saturn handled it as a warrant issue and we only paid 50 bucks, this was an over 400.00 repair so they earned a customer as long as they step like that I'm good with them. They have always treated us with respect and told me after my wife had hita curb bent a rim and I asked about a new rim the service writer told me to save my money and get some aftermarket rims for a lot less. Saturn seems to be a bit different than a lot of dealers. I'm sure there are cases where other Saturn dealers have dropped the ball but the dealer we go to is top notch. YRMV