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Old 01-09-08, 03:04 PM   #1
Motorad
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Axle Grease for the Knees?

What about fish oil? Last year, I was 3 capsules daily, each containing 1000 mg capsules of fish oil concentrate. Among other things, it's supposed to be good for the cardiovascular (omega-3 fatty acids), but I was taking it because of the apparent lubricating quality of the body's joints and ligaments.

Any truth to the above claims about fish oil supplements? I can not eat much fish, because my body retains mercury too easily for some reason. Would fish oil concentrate help to prevent inflammation of the knees from vigorous spinning on the bike?

Any other good axle grease for the knees?
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Old 01-09-08, 03:13 PM   #2
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Best lubricant I have found for the knees is the bike. I used to run and ruined the knees from pounding the streets in training. Even better was once I learnt to spin faster. Took the strain off the knees on the stiff climbs and I have never taken any additives that were not on prescription for any of my aches and pains.

If I do not ride for a couple of weeks- I do start to have joint problems. All I have to do is get back on the bike and I am fine again.
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Old 01-09-08, 03:24 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Motorad View Post
What about fish oil? Last year, I was 3 capsules daily, each containing 1000 mg capsules of fish oil concentrate. Among other things, it's supposed to be good for the cardiovascular (omega-3 fatty acids), but I was taking it because of the apparent lubricating quality of the body's joints and ligaments.

Any truth to the above claims about fish oil supplements? I can not eat much fish, because my body retains mercury too easily for some reason. Would fish oil concentrate help to prevent inflammation of the knees from vigorous spinning on the bike?

Any other good axle grease for the knees?
Fish oil has anti inflamatory properties. So does asprin. Lots of things similar to that do the same thing.
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Old 01-09-08, 03:59 PM   #4
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There are supplements that claim to help lubricate your knees. This is beyond the more typical glucosamine, chondroitin, and MSM that do help a lot of people. We've had multiple threads on this topic over the past year. These extra supplements include such things as "Uniflex", "hyaluronic acid", and something called simply "joint fluid."

The standard store brands of gluco/chon helped my knees tremendously. About 4 or so months ago, I did switch, because I found this stuff on a big sale, to Schiff's "Move Free Advanced." This includes a couple of the extra supplements I listed above. To my surprise, the pain in my knees has subsided even more with it. To the point of where I have essentially no knee pain for the first time in nearly 20 years. A decade ago I had conceded that I would have to learn to live with knee pain. It is fabulous to not have it anymore.

Now if your issue is inflammation, then that's the aspirin/ibuprofen route as far as I know. They work for me.
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Old 01-09-08, 04:16 PM   #5
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Best lubricant I have found for the knees is the bike.
I agree totally. The more days that I take off, the sorer my joints are. Even if I'm tired, I try to spin an easy 12-15 miles to keep everything working.

As for supplements, I don't take any yet.
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Old 01-09-08, 04:23 PM   #6
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Best lubricant I have found for the knees is the bike.
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Originally Posted by Trsnrtr
I agree totally. The more days that I take off, the sorer my joints are. Even if I'm tired, I try to spin an easy 12-15 miles to keep everything working
.

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Old 01-09-08, 04:30 PM   #7
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If you've got a serious problem with osteoarthritis, you should take a look at this site. http://www.drkoop.com/video/93/19020.html

And if you aren't dealing with osteoarthritis consider the following from http://www.usaweekend.com/06_issues/...hinksmart.html

Take fish oil and olive oil. High doses of fish oil, or fish oil and olive oil, cut joint pain, morning stiffness and fatigue, and added handgrip strength, a recent study says. Daily doses: 3,000mg fish oil (EPA and DHA types) and 2 teaspoons olive oil. See a doctor before taking megadoses of fish oil
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Old 01-09-08, 11:25 PM   #8
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Over a quarter milliom miles bicycling. Am 75 years old, still ride 100 miles a week.
Knees are just fine . . . so far!
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Old 01-10-08, 12:31 AM   #9
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I take a glucosamine/chondroitin supplement and don't notice a difference, unless I forget to take it for 5+ days. We eat a fairly clean diet and use olive oil in our cooking, also.

Prior to my knee surgery in '96 (for a torn meniscus) I started doing rehab exercises for it, so I lost very little strength during recovery. There's research that proves that keeping the muscles, tendons and ligaments around the joint helps to relieve stress on the joint, which may in turn relieve pain. This is assuming you don't have arthritis -- in which case your doctor will tell you what to do to keep your knees pain-free.

Like the others, I experience the most pain when I don't ride. And like others have posted, I prefer a high cadence vs. mashing. If your hill climbing is causing you pain and you're already visiting Granny, you may want to consider changing your cassette to one that allows more spinning.

Cycling shouldn't cause pain. Hope you find your version of WD-40.
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Old 01-10-08, 01:55 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
There are supplements that claim to help lubricate your knees. This is beyond the more typical glucosamine, chondroitin, and MSM that do help a lot of people. We've had multiple threads on this topic over the past year. These extra supplements include such things as "Uniflex", "hyaluronic acid", and something called simply "joint fluid."

The standard store brands of gluco/chon helped my knees tremendously. About 4 or so months ago, I did switch, because I found this stuff on a big sale, to Schiff's "Move Free Advanced." This includes a couple of the extra supplements I listed above.
Now if your issue is inflammation, then that's the aspirin/ibuprofen route as far as I know. They work for me.

+1 on the hyaluronic acid supplement in GC/MSM and the ibu
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Old 01-12-08, 11:40 PM   #11
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I heartily recommend titanium. I had a total knee replacement a year ago. No ACL, no PCL, bone to bone femur to patella, no medial collateral. In other words, my knee was good only for a soup bone. It is now my good knee, but the surgery and rehab are tough. My other knee is fairly bad, but hyaluronic acid injections help if you have good health insurance. Asprin helps as well. I haven't noticed much help from any of the supplements I have tried.
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Old 01-13-08, 12:11 AM   #12
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It depends what the state of your knees is. If you have any cartilage damage, it cannot be rebuilt and you will eventually need surgery.

On the other hand if pain is only due to ligaments and muscles, as most of us aging dudes, biking without mushing helps a lot. That means you first need to learn high cadence spinning. This is not bad at all as it also promotes cardio vascular enhancing workouts, exactly what a 50+ needs; isn't life great?

I started riding about 4 years ago because I couldn't run anymore. My knees were hurting even at rest in bed. One day I woke up with swollen knees after playing volleyball the night before, so I decided to try something less punishing for them. I didn't want to resort to surgery as I had read that the majority of the knee surgeries are not necessary and are mostly quick pain fixes. A surgeon friend of mine recommended non impact exercises, so I tried a rowing machine. It worked but was boring so cycling came to mind. Today I have no pain at all, thanks to cycling. I did twist one knee once while falling from the bike when I was still new with clipless pedals, it took a year before the pain completely went away but it did.

I do take 3 fish oil capsules every morning but that's because my wife said it was good for our brain, skin and heart. It might help on the joints as well, I don't know for sure.
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Old 01-13-08, 07:43 PM   #13
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Most knee issues result from the repetitive, inelegant use of our body in a manner that focuses the stresses in one knee or both knees.

In our younger years, our bodies recover, or heal, overnight, or with a few day's rest.

As we age, the recovery curve gets behind the injury curve.

Our knee corresponds to the strongest of four joints in an interactive system.
Our knee receives its strength, compared to the other joints, by virtue of a compromise, in which the knee sacrifices axes of motion for increased strength.

For example, like our knee, a door hinge will only bend in one direction, or in one axis.

Our knee will hinge fore and aft, like a door hinge, but it will not tolerate any sidewards bending.

Any time our knee must bend in another axis, it can only do so if either the hip rotates to place the knee in that axis, or if the ankle and the two long bones between the foot and the knee rotate, incline and twist so the knee can bend in a useful manner.

Additionally, our back itself twists, sways, and bends in order to place our knee in a useful axis.

Most of us learn to move by observing our family and our culture.

My middle son's Judo instructor of many years can, for instructional purposes, mimic the body language of various cultures in a recognizeable manner.

If we did not have eyes with which to observe the movement of people around us during our formative years, we would move differently.

Additionally, we put our own interpretation and twists and turns on what we see, and, for the first 50 or so years of our lives move not elegantly and appropriately for our body's health, but, rather, mindlessly according to what we have learned and to what we have habituated.

As we age, these inelegances eventually come home to our lower backs and our knees.

Bicycles represent a good way of undoing the years of injury due to inelegant movement, by virtue of a bicycle's low impact, and the fact that we can fit a bicycle to our body in a manner to undo the injuries.

Unhappily, many urban myths and old wives' remedies surround bicycle fitting, and most bicycle fitters, despite their confidence in their abilities, know less than nothing: they think they know everything.

If a person has the money (less than $400) or the insurance, I recommend someone like Scott Peterson at Summit Prosthetics and Orthotics:

Summit Orthotics & Prosthetics
2200 NE Neff Rd, Ste. 307
Bend, OR 97701
Tel: 541-389-5422
Fax: 541-389-7656

Scott and his father developed and patented a bicycle fitting system, and I think they license it to other bike fitters, orthotists, prostheticists, and physical therapists.

If one visits Scott's office, he would note autographed pictures of the world's elite bicyclists and athletes.

Tom Carlsen, MD, recently retired orthopedic surgeon to the US Ski Team and Hockey Team, recommends Scott Peterson for all bicyclists.

Tom orthoscopically repaired my knee ten or twelve years ago, and last year sent me to Scott Peterson, and to Physical Therapist and Feldenkrais Practitioner Burke Selbst.

I now ride 15-30 miles per day, and have no knee symptoms in any phase of my life.

One could call Scott and ask for a reference to a local licensed fitter, or call Burke Selbst and ask for a reference to a local Feldenkrais practitioner (Feldenkrais costs a lot of money, but many insurance companies will eagerly pay for it).

Burke Selbst: (541) 385-3344

If one cannot or does not want to go to someone like Scott Peterson or Burke Selbst, he can do some general things regarding bicycle fit and back health that will help, but not entirely correct the knee issue.

In terms of bike-fitting, the rider must properly orient the saddle to the pedals, which in turn properly orients the ankles, knees, hips and back to each other.

Picture the bicycle and rider viewed from the right side, with the right pedal forward and the cranks level, with the right pedal at the three o'clock position.

In this orientation, a plumb line hanging from the hollow of the knee on the inward side of the knee cap should hang through the ball of the foot and the spindle of the pedal (yes, ball of foot on spindle).
One would move the saddle fore or aft in order to move the plumb line.

In terms of saddle height, with the pedal at its lowest position, the rider should have the ability to fully lower his heel, stretching his calf, and still have a slight bend in his or her knee.
This will place the saddle lower than most people like, but, with study and practice, this will lead to a much more effective and less damaging spin.

The final orientation involves stem length and height.

In stocking feet, on a hard floor, sit in a hard chair.

Hold a pencil in each hand, with thumb and point of pencil up, and pinky finger and eraser down.

Sit on the edge of the seat.

Place the feet together, about the same distance between them as between one's pedals, and heels on the floor, directly under the edge of the chair.

Extend the arms comfortably forward, thumbs up and pinkys down, shoulder width apart.

Bend forward at the hips and begin to stand.

As the contact between one's bottom and the chair begins to break, place the hands in a comfortable riding position in front of the rider, and continue to reach forward, bending at the hips.

At the very moment the rider's bottom breaks contact with the chair, note the angle of the rider's torso, and the distance from the hips to the center of the pencils.

The rider should seek a stem that places the handlebars in an orientation that, with the saddle in the appropriate position, as determined above, duplicates the angle of the torso and the distance of the handlebars from the hips, as determined in the chair exercise, above.

If one races, and requires a perfect aerodynamic position, the above will not work, and the rider will continue to have pain as the price of racing.

In addition to the fitting, described above, one can practice gentle back-relaxing movements; and, especially those movements that allow the back to sway sideways in the middle, as a fish's spine sways left and right while swimming.

The description of those movements exceeds the time and energy available to me, now.

Otherwise, all the dietary supplements in the world, if they do anything, will only postpone the inevitable.

For a real fix, get fitted to your bike, including bicycle-specific foot orthotics (shoe inserts) for a proper relationship between your foot, ankle, knee and hip.
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