Carbon Fiber is 10 times stronger than Steel
01-20-08, 07:01 AM
#51
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It would have created a notice on a Scandium top tube and probably twist the frame a bit too. As practicality goes, steel wins. Let's face it: we would never be having this discussion in a planned economy--the technology and interest in learning to sequester carbon in the making of a plastic bicycle frame is the purest form of capitalist opulence. 
01-20-08, 12:09 PM
#53
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It would have created a notice on a Scandium top tube and probably twist the frame a bit too. As practicality goes, steel wins. Let's face it: we would never be having this discussion in a planned economy--the technology and interest in learning to sequester carbon in the making of a plastic bicycle frame is the purest form of capitalist opulence.
Is that what you mean? If so, I see what you mean...These types of bikes are just not meant for hard use even if you are careful and not an abuser. It just takes one small slip.
BTW, in planning for my next long distance bike I have set a goal of using a steel frame possibly not custom (like a Salsa Casseroll or Gunnar) and under twenty pounds including Brooks saddle and fenders. This would make it lighter than my plastic bike (which has no fenders even). It turns out that if you chose the components carefully (and spend big bucks on them) this is easily doable. In fact, without fenders and being a bit of a weight weeney (eg no Brooks), 16 pounds is easily possible for a robust bike with the above frames. If I go custom it can be even lighter.
And the lightest frames are Al. So, again, tell me what's the point of CF?
01-20-08, 10:19 PM
#54
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Don't have any experience with "Scandium" but it appears to be an alloying ingredient for Aluminum which makes it "super strong". Thus, the manufacturers can make the tubes thinner--some might even say "paper thin"--and hence it becomes vulnerable to small impacts from the side.
Is that what you mean? If so, I see what you mean...These types of bikes are just not meant for hard use even if you are careful and not an abuser. It just takes one small slip.
BTW, in planning for my next long distance bike I have set a goal of using a steel frame possibly not custom (like a Salsa Casseroll or Gunnar) and under twenty pounds including Brooks saddle and fenders. This would make it lighter than my plastic bike (which has no fenders even). It turns out that if you chose the components carefully (and spend big bucks on them) this is easily doable. In fact, without fenders and being a bit of a weight weeney (eg no Brooks), 16 pounds is easily possible for a robust bike with the above frames. If I go custom it can be even lighter.
And the lightest frames are Al. So, again, tell me what's the point of CF?
Is that what you mean? If so, I see what you mean...These types of bikes are just not meant for hard use even if you are careful and not an abuser. It just takes one small slip.
BTW, in planning for my next long distance bike I have set a goal of using a steel frame possibly not custom (like a Salsa Casseroll or Gunnar) and under twenty pounds including Brooks saddle and fenders. This would make it lighter than my plastic bike (which has no fenders even). It turns out that if you chose the components carefully (and spend big bucks on them) this is easily doable. In fact, without fenders and being a bit of a weight weeney (eg no Brooks), 16 pounds is easily possible for a robust bike with the above frames. If I go custom it can be even lighter.
And the lightest frames are Al. So, again, tell me what's the point of CF?
Even so, I can understand how a CF frame might seem as fragile as a glass Xmas ornament when, e.g., it gets dropped and the fall is broken by a CF top tube bouncing off a thin-edged piece of steel.
01-21-08, 10:01 AM
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The lightest frames are carbon, Scott has one under 850 grams! https://weightweenies.starbike.com/li...ype=roadframes
I think 16 lbs is pretty optimistic for a steel Gunnar, unless you have unlimited funds and can use ultra light parts, in that case why use a Gunnar? My Gunnar is about 21 lbs, but the parts and wheels are chosen for durability, because I tend to destroy things. The frame is about 4 lbs.
A lot of people say steel bikes are bullet proof, or something along those lines. I have broken 3 steel frames and had another suffer severe rusting where sweat migrated under the paint. I also saw a friend bend the top and down tubes in a very low speed crash on an all steel bike, to the point that the front wheel was past the down tube.
I have also corroded the brake cable stops on an aluminum frame, (I sweat a lot).
I guess my point is any frame requires maintenance and can be damaged one way or another. Choose the frame you like for the ride you like and don't overstep the boundries of reason, e.g., a 400 pound rider on a 15 pound bike.
I think 16 lbs is pretty optimistic for a steel Gunnar, unless you have unlimited funds and can use ultra light parts, in that case why use a Gunnar? My Gunnar is about 21 lbs, but the parts and wheels are chosen for durability, because I tend to destroy things. The frame is about 4 lbs.
A lot of people say steel bikes are bullet proof, or something along those lines. I have broken 3 steel frames and had another suffer severe rusting where sweat migrated under the paint. I also saw a friend bend the top and down tubes in a very low speed crash on an all steel bike, to the point that the front wheel was past the down tube.
I have also corroded the brake cable stops on an aluminum frame, (I sweat a lot).
I guess my point is any frame requires maintenance and can be damaged one way or another. Choose the frame you like for the ride you like and don't overstep the boundries of reason, e.g., a 400 pound rider on a 15 pound bike.
