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Old 01-18-08, 10:35 PM   #1
solveg
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road fan, come talk Mondonico with me....

Instead of doing this in PM's, I thought we could do it in public, in case anyone has any good suggestions.

To fill people in, we both have mid 80's Mondonicos that we're modernizing. Road fan has already done a lot of his, I believe. I'm still deciding whether to do it.

I'm going to sum up my deal and my questions, and road fan can share what he's doing...

Anyone with any ideas, please chime in! Road fan probably has his all planned out, but I'm confused.
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Old 01-18-08, 10:51 PM   #2
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OK, I have a mid 80's Mondonico. It came with a nice 600 Ultegra drive train and 7 speed Uniglide wheels that were to hard for me to ride. I swapped it out with a Hyperglide, but I still think I'll have trouble with it. I have the fit correct, except it's 1 cm short in the cockpit.

The paint is in good shape except for a couple areas where there are large bits of paint missing. Larger than a quarter. It should really be painted to preserve it.

Road fan, I think you are also planning a repaint? I found a source for decals for $20 + $3/shipping, they fit the old narrow tubing we have. Only available in white from Bill McGann, Owner of Torelli Imports. I have the phone number, if you want to PM me.

I picked up a Campy Centaur 10-speed drive train, basically in unused condition, for $130. It's a triple crankset with the derailleurs and a bottom bracket I can't use. I'm trying to trade for the cassette as we speak.

I figure I can put on any brakes, but I'm considering ergo shifters, so I may end up spending some money there. Since it needs to be painted, I guess this is as good a time as any. I want a "girly" bike, but since the decals are only in white, I suspect I'll have to go with a darker color. I may decide not to put any decals on at all, because they require a clear coat. I don't care, myself, and I doubt they will earn their price if I sell the bike.

The wheels are confusing for me. I need campy 9 or 10 speed hubs, right? I don't understand rims at all, why one would be better than the next. I know all the Clydes love the deep V's for their strength and feel, as do the SS/FG people. I have a set of deep V's hooked up to current 7 speed hyperglide. I could get those rims relaced to campy hubs, but I've heard that this is not good for rims. But since these are new wheels, they should be able to withstand the relacing.

The other option is to get new deep-v's. They're relatively inexpensive.

But there are so many other options out there, I'd like to explore them more. I want to go to 700c wheels.

Brakes, I don't care too much about, but they need to have a longer reach for the new 700c wheels. Will any calipers hook up OK to Campy ergo shifters if I choose to go that route?

There's a bike swap meet in Mpls in a few weeks. I thought I'd go searching for my shifter/brake set-up there. Anything in specific I should keep my eyes open for?
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Old 01-19-08, 12:40 PM   #3
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Sorry I can't help, but I'll be watching your project.

I am half-thinking about "modernizing" the Tommasini in my signature line below. I bought it last year, and then "restored" it with vintage parts, so it's in great shape and rides very nicely. However, I am thinking that by time it gets to summer I really might start riding it more and I think some of the parts are at the wear point -- the brakes are not great; the chain I know is worn, meaning the cassette is probably well worn; and it could use a wheel upgrade. Plus, the gearing on it today is pretty high, and I'd love to have it w/a compact drivetrain.

So -- since it's not really museum quality -- I was thinking about just "modernizing" it w/a new-ish set of brakes, wheels and drivetrain. Expensive, but would give me a fantastic classic steel frame + all new components.

The guy who owns my LBS is a big vintage bike fan and he practically strangles me every time I talk about "modernizing" my bike...on the other hand, I think that after a summer of riding on some already worn components it's going to be ready for some more TLC.

Looking forward to how your project comes out!

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Old 01-19-08, 01:26 PM   #4
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hey, Solveg, I just found your thread.

Hmm where to start? First decals. I'm not going to repaint. I've done a lot of touch up with silver automotive paint. I also found the white decals at Torelli, but I'm not going to get them unless I repaint.

A hot pink frame with white panels, powder blue pinstriping, and white Mondonico decals doesn't sound pretty?

Next, gearing. If you are going to utilize 10 speeds in the rear, you need a Campy 9/10 speed rear hub. Unlike Shimano, Campy 9 and 10 rear hubs are the same. You also need 10 speed Ergo levers to shift the system, with some caveats. There is a company, J-Tek I think, that makes adapter gadgets to 'bridge the gap" between several different combinations of derailleur brand and gear number design. I found Veloce 10 speed brifters for $100 a pair. The ebay prices for new or good used Campy cassettes are real similar between 9s and 10s, I just got the 10. The triple crankset makes it likely you'll need a long cage rear derailleur, or constrain the cassette size if you have a medium cage. I bought a 13-29 cassette and a 39-53 crankset, which will match well with my long-cage Veloce rear derailleur.

I think I could have stayed with my old Campy Super Record calipers, but a mutual friend on the forum found me a set of Centaur dual-ppivot calipers, so that's what I'm using. But I think you can use about anything.

Rims! First, I'm 99.9% positive the frame was designed for narrow 700C wheels and short reach brakes without fenders. Mine is at least. It could accept wider tires, but not if they're much taller. So you need 700c rims.

Now the question is tubular or clincher. I chose tubular, but as much as I love the tradition and tweakiness of tubulars, if you are not already a user or ready to take them on, I would recommend clinchers. I had a set of wheels built for my Mondo, and the builder narrowed down the rim choices to Mavic Open Pro or Velocity Aeroheads. Open pros are almost an old-fashioned box section, but a little depth to the V. Aeroheads are moderate depth Vs. The big benefit of the Velocity Aerohead rim is that there is an Offset version available for the rear, which offsets the spoke holes in the rim and makes for a stronger wheel due to minimizing dishing. If you are going new and going clincher, I'd recommend that. I am also using 32 hole 3x front spoking with 2x drive / 3x non-drive on the rear. With Aeroheads he would have gone full 32 3x on the rear. I think this will be a strong wheel, and the pair weighs 1550 grams without cassette or tires. My rims are vintage Mavic GP-4. The weight of the GP-4, Open Pro, and Aerohead are all around 410 grams, depending on the sample.

Solveg, I still haven't sorted out correct photosharing, so I'm going to send you a photo of my bike in its current state, so you can post it properly for the thread. ok?

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Old 01-19-08, 01:51 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by BengeBoy View Post
Sorry I can't help, but I'll be watching your project.

I am half-thinking about "modernizing" the Tommasini in my signature line below. I bought it last year, and the "restored" it with vintage parts, so it's in great shape and rides very nicely. However, I am thinking that by time it gets to summer I really might start riding it more and I think some of the parts are at the wear point -- the brakes are not great; the chain I know is worn, meaning the cassette is probably well worn; and it could use a wheel upgrade. Plus, the gearing on it today is pretty high, and I'd love to have it w/a compact drivetrain.

So -- since it's not really museum quality -- I was thinking about just "modernizing" it w/a new-ish set of brakes, wheels and drivetrain. Expensive, but would give me a fantastic classic steel frame + all new components.

The guy who owns my LBS is a big vintage bike fan and he practically strangles me every time I talk about "modernizing" my bike...on the other hand, I think that after a summer of riding on some already worn components it's going to be ready for some more TLC.

Looking forward to how your project comes out!
I don't consider my bike museum quality at all, so I really feel no concern about modernizing it as a "user" but not a "beater." I have an little older Masi that would lose significant value if it was sold with newer parts, so I keep it original -'sides, I need something to ride on vintage rides! But the Mondonico is at least for me a better riding frame! Most vintage fans recommend go ahead and upgrade, but keep the parts you took off in installable condition so that if you sell it, the heritage remains intact. This might satisfy your local LBS owner. Or, get a a newer frame to upgrade.

Mondonicos don't sell for much used. There was one on Ebay lately that started near 3k, then after several relistings and many drops in the BIN sold BIN for aroudn $1100. This seems low for a very modern high-uality steel bike with an upper-end Campy gruppo, but that's the market. New Mondonicos, OTOH, are in the $1600 and up bracket from Torelli unbuilt. How genuine they are may be discussible, but they are new Mondonicos.

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Old 01-19-08, 03:08 PM   #6
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There is a company, J-Tek I think, that makes adapter gadgets to 'bridge the gap" between several different combinations of derailleur brand and gear number design. I found Veloce 10 speed brifters for $100 a pair.

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I will vouch for the Jtek Shiftmate (go here: http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm). Use them on 2 bikes to link Ergo shifters to Shimano drivetrain. Easy to set-up and have worked for two seasons flawlessly. It's a simple gizmo through which the cable enters rear derailleur to adapt the Ergo shifter throws to the Shimano cassette cog spacing.

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Old 01-19-08, 03:47 PM   #7
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I will vouch for the Jtek Shiftmate (go here: http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm). Use them on 2 bikes to link Ergo shifters to Shimano drivetrain. Easy to set-up and have worked for two seasons flawlessly. It's a simple gizmo through which the cable enters rear derailleur to adapt the Ergo shifter throws to the Shimano cassette cog spacing.
I found a combo they don't support. I think it was Campy Ergo 10 speed levers with a Veloce 10 speed rear mech, and a Shimano 9-speed wheel. However, I could recollect wrong.
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Old 01-19-08, 04:10 PM   #8
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I found a combo they don't support. I think it was Campy Ergo 10 speed levers with a Veloce 10 speed rear mech, and a Shimano 9-speed wheel. However, I could recollect wrong.

Check out Shiftmate Model 1 at the above Jtek site for linking Campy 10 Ergos to Campy rd to Shimano 9 cassette.
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Old 01-19-08, 05:00 PM   #9
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Road Fan's Mondonico, pt 1







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Old 01-19-08, 05:03 PM   #10
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Road Fan's MOndonico, Pt 2







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Old 01-19-08, 05:06 PM   #11
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My Mondonico

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Old 01-19-08, 05:20 PM   #12
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Thanks, Solveg!

All the pictures but the last are in the rebuilding process. The last is "before."

So, what's new?

Headset - stronglight A9
hubs - 2007 Campy Record 32 h, only made in black
rims - vintage Mavic GP-4
spokes - Sapim CXRAY
brake calipers - Campy Centaur dual-pivot, don't know the year yet
BB - Campy Record 2007, screamin' deal from Nashbar!!!
Crankset - Campy Record used around 2005, 172.5, 53/39
Front derailleur - C-record from the parts box
Rear derailleur - Veloce long-cage 10-speed, another Nashbar screamer
Ergopower cable set - LBS
Cassette - Centaur 13-29, new on Ebay
Levers - Veloce Egopower 10 speed, from a local bud.
seatpost - American Classic
Saddle - Toupe 143
Stem - either Nitto Tech Deluxe 10 cm, Salsa 11 cm 105 degree, or 3ttt 11cm or Modolo 11 cm (I really need to not tape until I like how it looks and feels.
Handlebar - either Nitto 115 40 cm, Ambrosio flared bars, 3ttt Super Competitione (all from the parts closet), or score an ergo bar.
Chain is not bought, but I'm going ot get a new campy 10 speed, centaur or Chorus depending on what I find.

That's the plan!
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Old 01-19-08, 05:27 PM   #13
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OK, I have a mid 80's Mondonico.

The wheels are confusing for me. I need campy 9 or 10 speed hubs, right? I don't understand rims at all, why one would be better than the next. I know all the Clydes love the deep V's for their strength and feel, as do the SS/FG people. I have a set of deep V's hooked up to current 7 speed hyperglide. I could get those rims relaced to campy hubs, but I've heard that this is not good for rims. But since these are new wheels, they should be able to withstand the relacing.


There's a bike swap meet in Mpls in a few weeks. I thought I'd go searching for my shifter/brake set-up there. Anything in specific I should keep my eyes open for?
You need either campy hubs, a campy rear hub with something else in the front, a campy-compatible rear hub, or a set of campy-compatible wheels, like lower-cost FSAs or Vueltas. I would look for a large number (32) of fine guage tightly strung spokes if you get a whole wheel. Also look for rims, or learn about rims.

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Old 01-19-08, 05:41 PM   #14
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I wish I'd known of the Ital-Techno site's wheels.

Ambrosio Radar, Sensor, or Sonar for $249, $279, and $339 per set respecively, and clearance on the FSA RD 88 wheelset. These are all Campy-compatible wheels.

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Old 01-20-08, 09:44 PM   #15
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So Road Fan, just to clarify a few things... the short reach brakes work fine with the 700c tires? Also, why did you decide to go 32 hole rims instead of 36?

What exact BB did you get? What size? I read elsewhere on BF that for some reason it depends on the seattube width?

You have a double crank... I thought you were going to put on a triple... I guess the BB size is irrelevant to me....
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Old 01-20-08, 11:35 PM   #16
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Both ya'll have some nice Mondonicos'.



(sniff) makes me proud
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Old 01-20-08, 11:37 PM   #17
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So Road Fan, just to clarify a few things... the short reach brakes work fine with the 700c tires? Also, why did you decide to go 32 hole rims instead of 36?

What exact BB did you get? What size? I read elsewhere on BF that for some reason it depends on the seattube width?

You have a double crank... I thought you were going to put on a triple... I guess the BB size is irrelevant to me....

The reach of a brake is the distance from the brake mounting hole to where the rim is supposed to be. For any two bikes with 700C wheels, the rim is in the same place. The reach is then governed by the position of the brake mounting hole. If the frame is "tight," i.e. the fork crown and the brake bridge are close to the tire, then the reach distance will be short, and you'll be able to or may have to use a short reach brake on it. If you took the same frame and changed ot 650B wheels, you'd get the rim a little farther from the brake hole, and you might need a brake with longer reach. So yeah, a shotr reach brake can work on a 700C frame with 700C wheels.

I got a Campy Record BB in Italian thread, 70 mm BB width, 102 mm spindle width. It does depend on BB width, but not on seat tube width. Campy wants the center plane of the group of chainrings to be 43.3 mm from the center plane of the front triangle (seat tube, down tube, top tube, head tube). That's called chainline. It's necessary to make sure the chain can bend safely to meet up with all the rear cogs while on any of the front chainwheels. It also involves a specification on the lateral position of the cassette relative ot the front triangle center plane.

I decided agianst the triple finally because I noticed I was rarely using my deep low gears: 34-40 (31 inch gear) on the Trek 610, and 26-30 (30 inch gear) on teh Woodrup. I will have a 29-39 (35 inch gear) with what i'm planning. If it doesn't work I could go compact, and get a 29-30 for a 27 inch gear.

What I've read for Centaurs is that the doubles need a 111 mm campy BB. Ask in Bicycle Mechanics about what the triples need. It might not be the same as for other campy triples. The Racing T triple on my Woodrup needs a 111 mm.
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Old 01-21-08, 09:25 AM   #18
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Be aware that Campy cranks use a different type of square taper bottom bracket spindle than most cranks. You can't use "JIS" taper, you need "ISO" taper. As far as I know, only Campagnolo and Miche currently sell ISO taper bottom brackets.
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Old 01-21-08, 09:26 AM   #19
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Thanks BluesDawg!
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Old 01-21-08, 11:45 AM   #20
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Be aware that Campy cranks use a different type of square taper bottom bracket spindle than most cranks. You can't use "JIS" taper, you need "ISO" taper. As far as I know,
Token and another Asian company, IRD? do also sell campy compatible BBs. I've seen them advertized on Ebay and on PBK, probikekit.

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Old 01-21-08, 11:54 AM   #21
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What is PBK? I keep seeing that, but I don't know what it stands for...
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Old 01-21-08, 08:06 PM   #22
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Token and another Asian company, IRD? do also sell campy compatible BBs. I've seen them advertized on Ebay and on PBK, probikekit.

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Thanks. That's good to know. Now that I think about it, Phil Wood may also have ISO taper BB spindles.
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Old 01-21-08, 10:38 PM   #23
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Thanks. That's good to know. Now that I think about it, Phil Wood may also have ISO taper BB spindles.
True, Phil makes 'em, too.
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Old 01-21-08, 10:38 PM   #24
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Thanks. That's good to know. Now that I think about it, Phil Wood may also have ISO taper BB spindles.
PBK is Pro Bike Kit, a UK company.
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Old 01-25-08, 11:09 PM   #25
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I have a Centaur C front hub and a Centaur G rear hub.

What does the C & G mean?

Also, what does UD and (I think) ED mean?
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