Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-16-08, 03:13 PM   #1
tntom
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
tntom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Knoxville, Tn.
Bikes: Felt Z35
Posts: 397
Greenways and average speed

I have been doing most of my riding on a greenway and wandering why my average want go up. After 22 miles on it today it hit me[I aint that smart a guy]you cannot keep your speed up because someone is always walking in front of you and they won't move over. Today was verry nice weather and my average went down. Don't get me wrong the greenway is a nice place to just ride but not to train. Anyway I am getting off the greenway and on the road for a while I bet my average will go up some.
tntom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-08, 03:41 PM   #2
Tom Bombadil
His Brain is Gone!
 
Tom Bombadil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Paoli, Wisconsin
Bikes: RANS Stratus, Bridgestone CB-1, Trek 7600, Sun EZ-Rider AX, Fuji Absolute 1.0, Cayne Rambler 3
Posts: 9,980
What is a "greenway?"
__________________
"Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen." Louis L'Amour

There are two types of road bikers: bikers who are faster than me, and me. Bruce Cameron - Denver Post
Tom Bombadil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-08, 04:04 PM   #3
stapfam
Time for a change.
 
stapfam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 6 miles inland from the coast of Sussex, in the South East of England
Bikes: Dale MT2000. Bianchi FS920 Kona Explosif. Giant TCR C. Boreas Ignis. Pinarello Fp Uno.
Posts: 19,915
I ride a Mup as a sheltered route home occasionally and I am afraid that speed is the one thing you cannot rely on for this part of the ride. Too many people- kids and dogs about for comfort- even in bad weather conditions. My only problem is that most of the roads round here are a bit exposed and riding in heavy rain or strong winds does not make for a pleasant end of a ride.
__________________
How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


Spike Milligan
stapfam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-08, 04:11 PM   #4
BillK
Senior Member
 
BillK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Maryland suburbs outside Washington D.C.
Bikes: '06 Specialized Roubiax Expert, '08 Specialized Stumpjumper Comp 29, Nishiki frame
Posts: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by tntom View Post
I have been doing most of my riding on a greenway and wandering why my average won't go up.
If by greenway, you mean a mixed-use (i.e., walking, jogging, biking, etc.) trail, then I fully understand. Our rail-trails around MD carry a posted speed limit of 15 mph, but maintaining even that speed can be difficult during the nice, warm summer months as the trails are clogged with people out for a leisurely walk, taking pets for a stroll, and young families with small kids on trikes or small bikes with training wheels.

And, on top of it all, you have roads running 90 degrees to the trail...some with very poor sightlines. Last year, one month before my last century I came to one such crossing. Unfortunately, I spent a little too much time/energy focusing on the person coming from my left (near lane) and didn't see the elderly lady coming from the right (who was not paying attention to me). As a result I "t-boned" her brand new Toyota Solara, leaving a $2K crease in her driver's side door. Me? I ended up with a trashed bike, a ride to the hospital, one broken bone in my right hand and one really wicked looking black eye (thankfully I was wearing sunglasses, which dispersed the impact around my eye socket). As a result I either ride on the road or one or two carefully selected rail/trails that have minimal crossings.

Last edited by BillK; 02-16-08 at 04:19 PM.
BillK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-08, 04:17 PM   #5
BluesDawg
just keep riding
 
BluesDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Milledgeville, Georgia
Bikes: 2015 Specialized AWOL Comp frameset (custom build), 2015 Zukas custom road, 2014 Specialized Crave Pro 29, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB, 1980ish Fuji S-12S
Posts: 13,190
You can ride on a greenway or you can be concerned with your average speed. Trying to work on your average speed on a greenway is not a good idea. Unless you like the idea of being the equivalent of an SUV driver in a hurry to get to work.
BluesDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-08, 04:37 PM   #6
tntom
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
tntom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Knoxville, Tn.
Bikes: Felt Z35
Posts: 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
You can ride on a greenway or you can be concerned with your average speed. Trying to work on your average speed on a greenway is not a good idea. Unless you like the idea of being the equivalent of an SUV driver in a hurry to get to work.
Right it just took me while to understand that. Like I said I aint that smart a guy.
tntom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-08, 04:39 PM   #7
tntom
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
tntom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Knoxville, Tn.
Bikes: Felt Z35
Posts: 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
What is a "greenway?"


What Billk said.
tntom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-08, 05:04 PM   #8
maddmaxx 
Small Member
 
maddmaxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Bikes: Leader home built hardtail, Diamondback Response
Posts: 7,131
In my opinion you can still "train" on a greenway although you average speed will not be anything to write home about. Slowing for the pedestrians, passing them (possibly nodding and saying something) eventually leads to a significant amount of work while accelerating back up to speed. In fact, its possible that your bike handling skills will improve because of all the traffic.

When I want to maintain a high speed on these sorts of trails I go out early in the morning. Then all I have to dodge are the dog walkers. Dogs seem to be early risers
__________________
We are an empire. Use it wisely.
maddmaxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-08, 06:11 PM   #9
wrafl
Senior Member
 
wrafl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Western Burbs of Chicago
Bikes:
Posts: 945
My ride is mostly on a MUP and there is a 8MPH speed limit painted on the pavement. Police patrol the path that goes to a park section of the MUP and enforces speed limit. I doubt if you could maintain a constant speed average riding on greenways but if you start very early, you might achieve that average you desire and if it's far from pedestrian traffic.
wrafl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-08, 06:27 PM   #10
PaulH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Bikes:
Posts: 3,305
The MUPs here are quite good at rush hour on weekdays, and are often the fastest way across town. Just avoid them on weekends.

Pau
PaulH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-08, 07:39 PM   #11
tntom
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
tntom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Knoxville, Tn.
Bikes: Felt Z35
Posts: 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by maddmaxx View Post
In my opinion you can still "train" on a greenway although you average speed will not be anything to write home about. Slowing for the pedestrians, passing them (possibly nodding and saying something) eventually leads to a significant amount of work while accelerating back up to speed. In fact, its possible that your bike handling skills will improve because of all the traffic.

When I want to maintain a high speed on these sorts of trails I go out early in the morning. Then all I have to dodge are the dog walkers. Dogs seem to be early risers
My bike handling skills should be verry good the biggest part of the last 500 miles were on MUP. And to tell you the truth I am tired of dodging people. I agree you can train on a MUP but if you want to know where you stand on the road when riding a century you will have to get out on the road and train. Or you will never know how you will do when you get out there. That is where I am now and things ARE going to change.
tntom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-08, 08:24 PM   #12
BluesDawg
just keep riding
 
BluesDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Milledgeville, Georgia
Bikes: 2015 Specialized AWOL Comp frameset (custom build), 2015 Zukas custom road, 2014 Specialized Crave Pro 29, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB, 1980ish Fuji S-12S
Posts: 13,190
Why do you have to know how you'll do? Just be prepared to do the ride and you'll see how you do when you do it.

But yeah, get off the MUP and on the road. Performance goals make you do unsafe things on a path shared with more casual users. IMHO, if you have goals that don't fit the purpose of the facility, whether a MUP or a city street with intersections and traffic lights, take them to a road where you can expect to ride at speed with few interruptions.
BluesDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-08, 09:28 PM   #13
tntom
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
tntom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Knoxville, Tn.
Bikes: Felt Z35
Posts: 397
[QUOTE=BluesDawg;6178659]Why do you have to know how you'll do? Just be prepared to do the ride and you'll see how you do when you do it.

To me being prepared and knowing how I will do are the same.
tntom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-08, 09:37 PM   #14
BluesDawg
just keep riding
 
BluesDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Milledgeville, Georgia
Bikes: 2015 Specialized AWOL Comp frameset (custom build), 2015 Zukas custom road, 2014 Specialized Crave Pro 29, 2003 KHS Milano Tandem, 1986 Nishiki Cadence rigid MTB, 1980ish Fuji S-12S
Posts: 13,190
I don't quite understand. How are you going to know how you are going to do in a century ride before you do a century ride? And if you do ride a century and it really goes differently than you "knew" it would go, does that mean you haven't really done it?
BluesDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-08, 09:48 PM   #15
tntom
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
tntom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Knoxville, Tn.
Bikes: Felt Z35
Posts: 397
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
I don't quite understand. How are you going to know how you are going to do in a century ride before you do a century ride? And if you do ride a century and it really goes differently than you "knew" it would go, does that mean you haven't really done it?
YES.
tntom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-08, 11:34 PM   #16
byte_speed
Roadkill
 
byte_speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Tennessee
Bikes: 2002 Lightspeed Classic; 2010 Pedalforce RS
Posts: 857
I usually ride on the road when going past the local greenway by the river (which runs parallel to the road), and get more than a few calls of "get on the bike path" from autos. But unless I am just rolling a few leisurely miles, I stay on the road and leave the greenway to the joggers, dog walkers, ducks, etc.
byte_speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-08, 11:36 PM   #17
Cadfael
Senior Member
 
Cadfael's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Bikes:
Posts: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
What is a "greenway?"
Basically a cycle path that runs through countryside, or areas of common land.







That is the one I use on my way to and from work, both taken on a bright sunny morning at about 5:00am, so it was deserted. But during the day you do get a lot of walkers, don't get me wrong, they have every right to be there but they do tend to pull their face at you when you ring the bell to pass them. They forget that it IS a cycle path.
Cadfael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-08, 11:46 PM   #18
Tom Bombadil
His Brain is Gone!
 
Tom Bombadil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Paoli, Wisconsin
Bikes: RANS Stratus, Bridgestone CB-1, Trek 7600, Sun EZ-Rider AX, Fuji Absolute 1.0, Cayne Rambler 3
Posts: 9,980
Our rail trails / greenways are only lightly used, outside of larger cities. The one beside my house runs south about 45-50 miles to Freeport, IL. On a normal day, you would encounter someone else on the trail every 1-2 miles and there would be plenty of room to pass. If you could maintain 20-22 mph on fine limestone, then there would be nothing stopping you from doing so. One BF 50+ member has maintained an average speed of 19 mph over a 46 mile segment of a local trail.

No one around here calls them "greenways." Around here a "greenway" is defined as a green area (woods, fields, etc.) that is zoned as a non-development area. It is more like a park or a protected land than a bike trail.
__________________
"Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen." Louis L'Amour

There are two types of road bikers: bikers who are faster than me, and me. Bruce Cameron - Denver Post
Tom Bombadil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-08, 11:52 PM   #19
Tom Bombadil
His Brain is Gone!
 
Tom Bombadil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Paoli, Wisconsin
Bikes: RANS Stratus, Bridgestone CB-1, Trek 7600, Sun EZ-Rider AX, Fuji Absolute 1.0, Cayne Rambler 3
Posts: 9,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrafl View Post
My ride is mostly on a MUP and there is a 8MPH speed limit painted on the pavement.
Wow! A post speed limit of 8! Is that within a congested area? We have no limit at all. I've been passed a number of times by people riding 20+.
__________________
"Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen." Louis L'Amour

There are two types of road bikers: bikers who are faster than me, and me. Bruce Cameron - Denver Post
Tom Bombadil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-08, 12:01 AM   #20
Cadfael
Senior Member
 
Cadfael's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Bikes:
Posts: 475
Most off our Greenways are old rail lines, but the one above was actually new laid from scratch apart from the tarmac section which was a rail line. Walkers are not to bad in the winter months, but we get quite a lot in summer. But having said that even when I have to slow down for them it still cuts about 20 minutes of my commute over sticking to main roads.

Sustrans, who fund the greenways and other cycle paths in the UK have the ultimate goal of making it possible for cyclist to travel the whole of the UK with minimal main road riding. The most famous of their paths in the Hadrian's Wall Cyclepath 72. I hope sometime this year to ride it, I walked it from east to west last year, but cycling it is better done from west to east to take advantage of the prevailing winds.

http://www.cycle-routes.org/HADRIANSCYCLEWAY/
Cadfael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-08, 02:12 AM   #21
stapfam
Time for a change.
 
stapfam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 6 miles inland from the coast of Sussex, in the South East of England
Bikes: Dale MT2000. Bianchi FS920 Kona Explosif. Giant TCR C. Boreas Ignis. Pinarello Fp Uno.
Posts: 19,915
Sustrans are a Body that I admire and I took part in aride in 96 ish for them. Did not do the whole ride but they went from Scotland to Dover using sustrans paths as much as possible. Back then it was less than 50% but I believe that it is now possible to do the bulk of the ride on MUP's- or Road routes designated as "Safe" cycle routes.Attachnments are of the Local Cuckoo Trail- one of the earlier Sustrans trails.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg cuckoo trail.JPG (52.0 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg cuckoo trail2.JPG (56.7 KB, 5 views)
__________________
How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


Spike Milligan
stapfam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-08, 03:05 AM   #22
Juggler2
W A N T E D
 
Juggler2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
What is a "greenway?"
A small, small town in Arkansas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenway,_Arkansas
Juggler2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-08, 08:06 AM   #23
wrafl
Senior Member
 
wrafl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Western Burbs of Chicago
Bikes:
Posts: 945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
Wow! A post speed limit of 8! Is that within a congested area? We have no limit at all. I've been passed a number of times by people riding 20+.
Yes Tom. It is painted every 100 feet of the ~2 mile long park circling around a lake where geese are common and being chased by the goose police. Not only humans are using that part of the MUP but wildlife as well. I get passed still by careless riders who does not observe the speed limit but I ride a hybrid.
wrafl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-08, 08:28 AM   #24
The Smokester
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: N. California
Bikes:
Posts: 1,410
To commute to work I use a combination of MUP's, quiet streets and roads with bike lanes with a few busy intersections thrown in. The slowness and danger of the MUPs used to make me want to find alternatives but now I just ease back and take the speed hit. Most mornings I greet the same people and it makes for a nice beginning to the day.

'Round here about the best time to ride MUPs is in mid afternoon on a weekday. Seems few people are out walking their dog at those times. In the morning, people are out for their "constitutional".

There is only one bike path around here that goes any distance (>40 miles I think) sufficient for training for a Century. It has reasonable road alternatives so I seldom use it if I want to make time and/or train.
The Smokester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-08, 08:30 AM   #25
nondes 
Northern Rider
 
nondes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Bikes: 1999 Litespeed Tuscany 105, 2007 Marin Palisades Trail, 2006 Burley Duet tandem
Posts: 426
Mount Pleasant Cemetery in Toronto is a popular through route for cyclists - it has a 10 kph (6mph) limit for bikes and a 30 kph limit for cars. I take it easy when there are people around but pick up my pace when the path is clear. I have often been yelled at by their security people, but why respect a limit that's so unreasonable? I'm sure they would ban bikes if they could get away with it, as they did with rollerblades. The cemetery is operated by a public trust - it's not a private company.
nondes is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:22 AM.