Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-11-08, 10:05 PM   #1
Hermes 
Elite Rider
Thread Starter
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes: Too Many
Posts: 9,657
Motor Pacing...JPPE here is some more hot water...

Tonight is the first time I motor paced behind a scooter – what a rush. When I met my coach at the start, I asked him what the plan was i.e. HR, cadence and etc. He said this is motor pacing so forget about heart rate and keep cadence above 100 and 120 is okay. We were on the 10 mile TT course so he planned two laps and see how I hold up. Off we went for the warm up and we were soon at 25 mph up hill. I was supposed to keep the front wheel one inch from the rear roller. At 20 to 25 mph, this was easier but as the speed increased, it became less comfortable or easy to be that close. On the first down hill, the scooter constantly increased speed and I was forced to spin faster and faster. At higher speeds, it is more difficult mentally to stay close to the scooter but if you fall off at high speed, you pick up turbulent air off the scooter. I was spinning at 100+ cadence as we went flying down the road and up the hills. The high cadence up the hills really taxed my cardio and a couple of times, I was gasping for air and I had the feeling of all the blood leaving my stomach and we had to slow down. We flew past other cyclists like they were standing still. We completed the first lap and he said, let’s pick up the pace. The second lap was faster and I was now getting more comfortable behind the scooter and staying close. On the final leg back we were doing 38 mph on the flat and I was spinning my 52/12 at 110+ cadence putting out as much power as I could. I tried to stay as relaxed and focused as possible.

At the end, my coach said he was very pleased with the first time out. This was the toughest workout I have ever done in my life but I was really pleased that I could keep the 100 + cadence the entire 22 miles even up the hills and top out at 38 mph on the flat. Tom Boonen is still very safe...for now.
Hermes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-08, 11:13 AM   #2
The Smokester
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: N. California
Bikes:
Posts: 1,410
Time to get that new bike.
The Smokester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-08, 01:05 PM   #3
jppe
Let's do a Century
 
jppe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: North Carolina
Bikes: Pinarello Prince/Campy SR; Cervelo R3/Sram Red; Trek 5900/Duraace, Cervelo P2C/Duraace
Posts: 6,483
My goodness. That is just amazing. I can't imagine keeping up that level of exertion for that long.

How often do you think your coach will have you do this "test".
jppe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-08, 01:57 PM   #4
Hermes 
Elite Rider
Thread Starter
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes: Too Many
Posts: 9,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by jppe View Post
My goodness. That is just amazing. I can't imagine keeping up that level of exertion for that long.

How often do you think your coach will have you do this "test".
Last year, I could not have either. Previously, I saw guys motor pacing on the TT course and thought they were insane. How ones perception can change. According to Dymitri, I am ready for motor pacing which is for building endurance at high speed. It is not a test, motor pacing is done primarily for TT training. So, I am now scheduled weekly for motor pacing and he usually does three laps or 30+ miles. If you recall, Levi Leipheimer credited improving his TT results by motor pacing.

JPPE, as I recall, you have a 40 K TT coming up which is not trivial. This is ideal training for that.
Hermes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-08, 06:06 PM   #5
jppe
Let's do a Century
 
jppe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: North Carolina
Bikes: Pinarello Prince/Campy SR; Cervelo R3/Sram Red; Trek 5900/Duraace, Cervelo P2C/Duraace
Posts: 6,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermes View Post

JPPE, as I recall, you have a 40 K TT coming up which is not trivial. This is ideal training for that.
You are correct. The first one is still about 6 weeks away and I'm not sure if I'm going to jump in that event or not. I definitely need to incorporate the scooter type of training into my regime-hopefully riding moer with some of the these horses will help as well. Maybe if they hung a pitcher of margaritas off the back of the scooter I'd hang in there longer!
jppe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-08, 06:27 PM   #6
Red Rider
Don't mince words
 
Red Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Vacaville, CA
Bikes: '08 Orbea Diva "The Avocado"; Specialized Dolce comp "Sweet Thang"; Co-Motion Roadster "Blue Jay", Fuji Team Pro
Posts: 6,948
Wow!

Guess I better find a friend with a motor scooter.
Red Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-08, 06:58 PM   #7
tsl
Plays in traffic
 
tsl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Bikes: 1996 Litespeed Classic, 2006 Trek Portland, 2013 Ribble Winter/Audax
Posts: 6,934
Motor pacing, eh? I'll have to remember that next time some safety nazi gives me lip about drafting cars on the way to work.

Drafting? No! I was motor pacing. Sounds all official and such.

BTW, Lincoln Navigators are my preference. They create such suction I can practically coast up a 4% grade behind them.
tsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-08, 08:53 PM   #8
Hermes 
Elite Rider
Thread Starter
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes: Too Many
Posts: 9,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rider View Post
Wow!

Guess I better find a friend with a motor scooter.
Preferably a scooter with a roller and a driver who knows how to do it.
Hermes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-08, 10:59 PM   #9
Hermes 
Elite Rider
Thread Starter
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes: Too Many
Posts: 9,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rider View Post
Wow!

Guess I better find a friend with a motor scooter.
Here you go...I bet you have a lot of these around.

Hermes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-08, 12:37 AM   #10
Red Rider
Don't mince words
 
Red Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Vacaville, CA
Bikes: '08 Orbea Diva "The Avocado"; Specialized Dolce comp "Sweet Thang"; Co-Motion Roadster "Blue Jay", Fuji Team Pro
Posts: 6,948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Here you go...I bet you have a lot of these around.



You wouldn't believe how many of these I've seen this week -- the first alfalfa cut is peaking right now. It's lovely, unless you have allergies.

Oh, and I ride faster than these guys, but thanks just the same.
Red Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-08, 06:09 PM   #11
cgallagh
DoubleTrouble
 
cgallagh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Vacaville, CA
Bikes: 06 Co-Motion Tandem, Fuji Team Pro mine,-Hers, Specialized Dolce
Posts: 599
You have officially "set the pie higher" . I am now forced to work my tail off so that we are not whipped to badly at the next tandem time trial.
cgallagh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-08, 05:27 AM   #12
stonecrd
OnTheRoad or AtTheBeach
 
stonecrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Weston, FL
Bikes: Ridley Noah RS, Scott CR1 Pro
Posts: 2,170
Hermes, you have a power meter yet? I think its time for powertap or even better a SRM. Sounds like great fun.
__________________
The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard and the shallow end is much too large

2013 Noah RS
stonecrd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-08, 09:54 AM   #13
Hermes 
Elite Rider
Thread Starter
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes: Too Many
Posts: 9,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonecrd View Post
Hermes, you have a power meter yet? I think its time for powertap or even better a SRM. Sounds like great fun.
It was a lot of fun. No, I do not have a power meter but would like one.

This coaching program does not require one. So for now, my wife and I decided it would be obvious to us when and if we needed power measurement and could get more benefit. Currently, I do not think I could do any harder workouts or be more closely supervised.
Hermes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-08, 10:04 AM   #14
Hermes 
Elite Rider
Thread Starter
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes: Too Many
Posts: 9,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgallagh View Post
You have officially "set the pie higher" . I am now forced to work my tail off so that we are not whipped to badly at the next tandem time trial.
We are trying to get up to your standards.

Speaking of tandems, we did another ride to Pescadero yesterday - 70 miles and 11,000 feet of climbing. This was last week's course in the opposite direction including a route change with more climbing. However, even though the climbing was significant, this ride is totally doable on a tandem with great scenery in the redwoods and ocean vistas. We will have to set a date and do this ride together this summer.
Hermes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-08, 09:34 PM   #15
cgallagh
DoubleTrouble
 
cgallagh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Vacaville, CA
Bikes: 06 Co-Motion Tandem, Fuji Team Pro mine,-Hers, Specialized Dolce
Posts: 599
[QUOTE=Hermes;6516455]We are trying to get up to your standards./QUOTE]

Wait a minute there big boy. That's my line.

That sounds like a really nice ride. We would love to get together and ride it with you guys. This weekend we took the tandem out and did sprint drills on the Dunlop TT route. On Sunday I rode with RR and her team mate K. I played rabbit for them to chase on sprint drills. By the time we got back to the backside of Cantelow I was worn out so I let them chase each other up and over the top. It was a fun ride but I was pretty worn down. I am just trying to get back in shape after all the airplanes, hotels and Italian wine.. We are fairly open so lets's talk about it.
cgallagh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-08, 07:36 AM   #16
George
Senior Member
 
George's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Katy Texas
Bikes: Specialized Roubaix
Posts: 5,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Here you go...I bet you have a lot of these around.

This is what I do my riding behind I bet that was a real trip for you and fun. To be young again, or younger
__________________
George
George is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-08, 10:55 AM   #17
RockyMtnMerlin
Senior Member
 
RockyMtnMerlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Laramie Wyoming
Bikes: Merlin Extralight Topolino Wheels Campy Record
Posts: 2,970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Here you go...I bet you have a lot of these around.

Actually did three miles behind one of those last year. Guess he ws moving from one field to another. So big that you don't have to stay very close to draft. Bonus: It was a 2% uphill grade and we were doing about 24 mph. The tractor driver was a young guy and he got a kick out of it.
__________________
RockyMtnMerlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-08, 05:32 PM   #18
Velodiva
Senior Member
 
Velodiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Peninsula, N. CA.
Bikes: Orbea Orca - 2007, Orbea Ordu - 2008, Cervelo P3 track, Santana Sovereign tandem
Posts: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Tonight is the first time I motor paced behind a scooter – what a rush. When I met my coach at the start, I asked him what the plan was i.e. HR, cadence and etc. He said this is motor pacing so forget about heart rate and keep cadence above 100 and 120 is okay. We were on the 10 mile TT course so he planned two laps and see how I hold up. Off we went for the warm up and we were soon at 25 mph up hill. I was supposed to keep the front wheel one inch from the rear roller. At 20 to 25 mph, this was easier but as the speed increased, it became less comfortable or easy to be that close. On the first down hill, the scooter constantly increased speed and I was forced to spin faster and faster. At higher speeds, it is more difficult mentally to stay close to the scooter but if you fall off at high speed, you pick up turbulent air off the scooter. I was spinning at 100+ cadence as we went flying down the road and up the hills. The high cadence up the hills really taxed my cardio and a couple of times, I was gasping for air and I had the feeling of all the blood leaving my stomach and we had to slow down. We flew past other cyclists like they were standing still. We completed the first lap and he said, let’s pick up the pace. The second lap was faster and I was now getting more comfortable behind the scooter and staying close. On the final leg back we were doing 38 mph on the flat and I was spinning my 52/12 at 110+ cadence putting out as much power as I could. I tried to stay as relaxed and focused as possible.

At the end, my coach said he was very pleased with the first time out. This was the toughest workout I have ever done in my life but I was really pleased that I could keep the 100 + cadence the entire 22 miles even up the hills and top out at 38 mph on the flat. Tom Boonen is still very safe...for now.
Last Friday (May 30), Hermes and I went out for our second motor pacing session with our coach in preparation for yesterday's Dunlop time trial in Davis, CA. We motor paced on the Canada Road 10 mile time trial course on the SF peninsula. Rich went out at 9 AM in the morning and I went out at 6:30 PM after work. We both did 20 miles (2 out and back intervals). The fog rolled in for the evening so it was cool and damp. The attached pictures will give you a sense of the experience. Rich accompanied me by car and served as photographer at various points along the course. As Hermes described, it is pretty intense – the biggest challenge on Friday night was the strong cross winds. Our coach was pleased with both of our performances. Yesterday's Dunlop TT was great practice for Sattley (Northern California district individual time trial championship) on June 8. We plan on another motor pacing session this week - we need more power and this is a good way to get there . . . .




Last edited by Velodiva; 08-19-08 at 06:14 PM.
Velodiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-08, 06:10 PM   #19
SaiKaiTai
Senior Member
 
SaiKaiTai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 2,990
Now, for me, this falls under the category of "Nuts"
Wow... pretty amazing
SaiKaiTai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-08, 06:43 PM   #20
Feathers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 444
Nothing can recreate generating high-speed race wattage quite like motorpacing.
Feathers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-08, 10:52 PM   #21
Velodiva
Senior Member
 
Velodiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Peninsula, N. CA.
Bikes: Orbea Orca - 2007, Orbea Ordu - 2008, Cervelo P3 track, Santana Sovereign tandem
Posts: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaiKaiTai View Post
Now, for me, this falls under the category of "Nuts"
Wow... pretty amazing
I hear you - a year ago I used to watch these guys motor pacing and thought they were nuts too. I never thought that I'd be doing this, but Hermes and I are really into the training program.
Velodiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-08, 10:55 PM   #22
Feathers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 444
motorpacing gets the legs accustomed to spinning a very big gear @ high rpm. it's a fine way to get fast.
Feathers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-08, 10:58 PM   #23
Velodiva
Senior Member
 
Velodiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Peninsula, N. CA.
Bikes: Orbea Orca - 2007, Orbea Ordu - 2008, Cervelo P3 track, Santana Sovereign tandem
Posts: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feathers View Post
Nothing can recreate generating high-speed race wattage quite like motorpacing.
So our coach says - and I believe it. When he picks up the pace on the hills, it is a test of sheer power. The adrenalin numbs any pain - at least at the time.
Velodiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:02 PM.