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  1. #1
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    Ever seen this white bike?

    Do you think these would help with safety awareness?

    http://www.ghostbikes.org/press

  2. #2
    Small Member maddmaxx's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, with about 45,000 dead in vehicular accidents each year I hold very little hope that anything will get through the average motorist's skull.

    Tougher enforcement of existing regulations and the potential of loss of the right to drive forever might help, but this would be unlikely.

    Sorry to be a downer, but I think we have gone too far on the slippery slope to recover from this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmaxx View Post
    Unfortunately, with about 45,000 dead in vehicular accidents each year I hold very little hope that anything will get through the average motorist's skull.

    Tougher enforcement of existing regulations and the potential of loss of the right to drive forever might help, but this would be unlikely.

    Sorry to be a downer, but I think we have gone too far on the slippery slope to recover from this one.
    I sure hope your assessment is wrong. I'm probably in the minority with this (hell, I know I am), but I've often thought that fuel prices in the U.S. were too low. People taking driving for granted, and as long as this is the case, we'll continue to be a culture that has a hard time separating driving as utility, driving as recreation, and driving as a God given right. I really think that as fuel prices continue to go up, people are starting to become more mindful of driving as utility and more aware of other modes of transportation. While it might be a stretch to think that this will translate into more respect for others on the highways and side streets, I tend to be a hopeful person.

    BTW, to the OP, I'm saddened at the loss of those two riders, and think that such a memorial/reminder (even if only temporary) is a good thing.
    Oh I used to be disgusted and now I try to be amused. But since their wings have got rusted, you know, the angels wanna wear my red shoes. But when they told me 'bout their side of the bargain, that's when I knew that I could not refuse. And I won't get any older, now the angels wanna wear my red shoes.

  4. #4
    Senior Member big john's Avatar
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    I don't think higher fuel prices will do anything about the rude, aggressive idiots out there. If anything, it only makes them more angry. Our gas is now right at $4 for regular, and those mental midgets are still out there, bullying and threatening everyone else.
    It's a shame that human life is so unimportant to some drivers, and I don't know what can be done.

  5. #5
    Small Member maddmaxx's Avatar
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    It has always been my opinion that we are dealing with something similar to prohibition when it comes to the right to drive. It is almost impossible to put teeth into the existing laws when the average driver (me too.....and you.....and you.....and all of them) thinks of driving as a right.

    When dozens of people will show up at a trial for a drunk driving 21 year old to testify "he is/was such a nice person" instead of admitting that he is a murderer then we have an attitude problem to overcome.

    Not to let this get political but (this is for shock value only) the annual vehicular death total in this country would support approximately 45 YEARS of American deaths in Iraq. Where is the outrage? Where are the protests? There aren't going to be any..........because we all drive. I'm sure that there are those who will say "not me", but the non drivers in this country are an incredably small minority.

    Support for tough actions for offending drivers would help. For example....teenage drunk driving..loss of license untill age 21 minimum, or vehicular manslaughter with drunk driving involved..loss of license forever minimum. If society is not willing to pay these prices, then we will be unable to stop the carnage.

    Very few of us are really good drivers, there is little incentive for us to work at it. Yes I mean us!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmaxx View Post
    It has always been my opinion that we are dealing with something similar to prohibition when it comes to the right to drive. It is almost impossible to put teeth into the existing laws when the average driver (me too.....and you.....and you.....and all of them) thinks of driving as a right.

    When dozens of people will show up at a trial for a drunk driving 21 year old to testify "he is/was such a nice person" instead of admitting that he is a murderer then we have an attitude problem to overcome.

    Not to let this get political but (this is for shock value only) the annual vehicular death total in this country would support approximately 45 YEARS of American deaths in Iraq. Where is the outrage? Where are the protests? There aren't going to be any..........because we all drive. I'm sure that there are those who will say "not me", but the non drivers in this country are an incredably small minority.

    Support for tough actions for offending drivers would help. For example....teenage drunk driving..loss of license untill age 21 minimum, or vehicular manslaughter with drunk driving involved..loss of license forever minimum. If society is not willing to pay these prices, then we will be unable to stop the carnage.

    Very few of us are really good drivers, there is little incentive for us to work at it. Yes I mean us!
    I guess one of the problems I struggle with related to your approach is the assumption that the only, or perhaps best way to change behavior is through punishment or penalties. Your note that there are few incentives is spot on. While I think making tougher rules and consequences for breaking them, can have an impact, I believe that it will always be limited. As a nation, we've not been very good at finding ways to reward desired behavior. Let me give you three examples of what I mean. 1. I've been fascinated by the relatively recent insurance commericals that discuss rewarding drivers with lower cost when they've been accident free. I think there is something to this approach. 2. What would happen if every individual in this country had to take a competency based driver's exam once every "x" number of years that included incentives such as A) you pass with this score and you have an automatic reduction in insurance rates, no yearly vehicle registration fee, and you pay less gas tax; B) you pass demonstrating these skills and you receive a license plate allowing you to drive in high speed lanes; C) you pass with a score below this level, and you must attend a comprehensive driving school., etc. 3. In a heart beat I would choose to purchase a car that had a system built into it blocking cell phone signals if this would reduce my insurance costs, of if I were to receive a tax credit for doing so. In any event, these are just examples, some of which are more plausible than others.

    Finally, I think we make it too easy to get a driver's license. I think we need stronger educational programs that are competencey based before anyone can get a license. Obviously, these programs would stress the importance of driving as a solitary act and the importance of sharing the road. Perhaps we even need competency based educational programs mandated before any vehicle (including cycles) can use the roads.
    Oh I used to be disgusted and now I try to be amused. But since their wings have got rusted, you know, the angels wanna wear my red shoes. But when they told me 'bout their side of the bargain, that's when I knew that I could not refuse. And I won't get any older, now the angels wanna wear my red shoes.

  7. #7
    Small Member maddmaxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BSLeVan View Post
    I guess one of the problems I struggle with related to your approach is the assumption that the only, or perhaps best way to change behavior is through punishment or penalties. Your note that there are few incentives is spot on. While I think making tougher rules and consequences for breaking them, can have an impact, I believe that it will always be limited. As a nation, we've not been very good at finding ways to reward desired behavior. Let me give you three examples of what I mean. 1. I've been fascinated by the relatively recent insurance commericals that discuss rewarding drivers with lower cost when they've been accident free. I think there is something to this approach. 2. What would happen if every individual in this country had to take a competency based driver's exam once every "x" number of years that included incentives such as A) you pass with this score and you have an automatic reduction in insurance rates, no yearly vehicle registration fee, and you pay less gas tax; B) you pass demonstrating these skills and you receive a license plate allowing you to drive in high speed lanes; C) you pass with a score below this level, and you must attend a comprehensive driving school., etc. 3. In a heart beat I would choose to purchase a car that had a system built into it blocking cell phone signals if this would reduce my insurance costs, of if I were to receive a tax credit for doing so. In any event, these are just examples, some of which are more plausible than others.

    Finally, I think we make it too easy to get a driver's license. I think we need stronger educational programs that are competencey based before anyone can get a license. Obviously, these programs would stress the importance of driving as a solitary act and the importance of sharing the road. Perhaps we even need competency based educational programs mandated before any vehicle (including cycles) can use the roads.
    Good thinking.

    And your right about incentive instead of punishment for some.

  8. #8
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Why is it that we can think this way... but two of the political candidates for president are thinking in terms of a gas tax reprieve as a solution?

    Apparently either they have short memories, or think we are all fools or...

  9. #9
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    Yes I think it will help with safety awarness when the general public knows what it is all about. You see those crosses on the bank where someone was killed in an auto accident and I always wonder how in the heck did someone die on the road here? Drunk, asleeep?

  10. #10
    Pedaled too far. Artkansas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aqua4her View Post
    Do you think these would help with safety awareness?

    http://www.ghostbikes.org/press

    It can't hurt. If nothing else, like the Mexican accident shrines, it marks the locations that are most dangerous. I have one on order from the local bicycle coop.
    "He who serves all, best serves himself" Jack London

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjforrestal View Post
    I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by aqua4her View Post
    Do you think these would help with safety awareness?

    http://www.ghostbikes.org/press
    Yes. I saw one in Portland some months ago. Very striking. People had placed flowers around it as well.

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