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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skipper View Post


    And right after they ban cell phone use while driving, they should ban tuning the radio, adjusting the A/C or heater, setting the cruise control, talking to a passenger, etc., etc., etc. And, no, I don't talk on my cell phone while driving (or riding my bike) because I don't think it is appropriate behavior while driving.

    Peoples attitudes about engaging in distracting activities while driving need to change dramatically before any kind of legislation will have a snowball's chance in hlel of doing any good.

    Sorry for the hijack.
    Couldn't disagree with you more. I suspect the basis of your reasoning is that it would be difficult to pass legislation or enforce if it was passed. However, I find this to be an unacceptable reason for not at least making the attempt. When people do things that put others at risk (and there is more and more evidence the cell phones and driving do this it seems irresponsible to not at least make the effort.
    Last edited by BSLeVan; 05-16-08 at 05:29 PM.
    Oh I used to be disgusted and now I try to be amused. But since their wings have got rusted, you know, the angels wanna wear my red shoes. But when they told me 'bout their side of the bargain, that's when I knew that I could not refuse. And I won't get any older, now the angels wanna wear my red shoes.

  2. #27
    But on the road more MTBLover's Avatar
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    I agree, BSLV, but Skipper has a point, which is that drivers have generally become so accustomed to multitasking (and getting away with it), that it's not much of a leap to go from tuning in a radio to talking on a cell phone (or even worse, texting). There are decades of bad driving behaviors associated with attention diverting activities, and just focusing on cell phone use, while extremely urgent, isn't going to cut the mustard in the long run.

  3. #28
    Violin guitar mandolin
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    Easy solution: Remove Sig P232 from handlebar bag and fire warning shot through driver's window.

    I actually carry a Sig when I'm commuting. You might ask why. Simple. The Beretta is too heavy.

  4. #29
    Small Member maddmaxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BSLeVan View Post
    Couldn't disagree with you more. I suspect the basis of your reasoning is that it would be difficult to pass legislation or enforce if it was passed. However, I find this to be an unacceptable reason for not at least making the attempt. When people do things that put others at risk (and there is more and more evidence the cell phones and driving do this it seems irresponsible to not at least make the effort.
    CT has a cell phone ban. As near as I can tell it has no effect on cell phones in drivers hands. What it does is provide a placebo effect for the voters, convincing some that they are doing all that can be done. The only cell phone bans that work so far as I can tell are the jammers installed in some theaters and restaurants.
    To make a serious dent in cell phone use, a large number of citizens have to walk away from inappropriate cell phone users.........ie if a driver does it, don't ride with them again and explain polietly why you won't. When dealing with moral problems some must take the high ground, painful though it may be. Look at the campaigns waged for the wearing of seatbelts. Which do you think has more effect, the "click it or whoop whoop ticket" or the father standing in the driveway reading a newspaper untill both his daughters fasten their seatbelts. IMHO "I love you, do it so you will be safe wins hands down".

  5. #30
    Old Enough to Know Better WalterMitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBLover View Post
    I agree, BSLV, but Skipper has a point, which is that drivers have generally become so accustomed to multitasking (and getting away with it), that it's not much of a leap to go from tuning in a radio to talking on a cell phone (or even worse, texting). There are decades of bad driving behaviors associated with attention diverting activities, and just focusing on cell phone use, while extremely urgent, isn't going to cut the mustard in the long run.
    I think you and maddmaxx are right on point with the distracted drivers. Many activities don't take much concentration, but the cell phone makes you put your mind into the phone conversation, this is deadly.

    So just how illegal would it be to put a cell phone jammer in my wedge bag?
    Youth we got, what we need is a fountain of Smart!

    "Does it ever occur to you that I am sometimes thinking?"

  6. #31
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    I am not smart enough or experienced enough to give advise to situations such as this.
    Our Tour Leader Mike Munk is both.
    He advised us NOT to confront or antagonize people who do such things. We had a number of situations almost as bad as yours. I observed fellow bikers acting hostile toward the drivers. In no situation did I observe a desired outcome.

    I just assume that the roads are full of incompetent or distracted drivers and bike very defensively.

    The situation described by the OP sounds challenging however.

  7. #32
    Senior Member Skipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BSLeVan View Post
    Couldn't disagree with you more. I suspect the basis of your reasoning is that it would be difficult to pass legislation or enforce if it was passed. However, I find this to be an unacceptable reason for not at least making the attempt. When people do things that put others at risk (and there is more and more evidence the cell phones and driving do this it seems irresponsible to not at least make the effort.
    Disagree all you want and suspect whatever you like. I did not say we should not ban cell phone use while driving. I agree with your statement that it would be difficult to pass legislation or enforce if it was passed. I suspect that a lot of people will not obey a law for fear of being fined if caught breaking the law. They will simply go on breaking the law openly or possibly try to conceal their activity, which could be even more dangerous. They will be more likely to obey a law if they come to agree with the reason for enacting the law and believe that the law was enacted for their own good.

    I stand by my statement that peoples attitudes about engaging in distracting activities while driving need to change dramatically before any kind of legislation will have a snowball's chance in hlel of doing any good. Not making a concerted effort to change those attitudes would be as irresponsible, if not more so, than not trying the legislative approach.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skipper View Post
    Disagree all you want and suspect whatever you like. I did not say we should not ban cell phone use while driving. I agree with your statement that it would be difficult to pass legislation or enforce if it was passed. I suspect that a lot of people will not obey a law for fear of being fined if caught breaking the law. They will simply go on breaking the law openly or possibly try to conceal their activity, which could be even more dangerous. They will be more likely to obey a law if they come to agree with the reason for enacting the law and believe that the law was enacted for their own good.

    I stand by my statement that peoples attitudes about engaging in distracting activities while driving need to change dramatically before any kind of legislation will have a snowball's chance in hlel of doing any good. Not making a concerted effort to change those attitudes would be as irresponsible, if not more so, than not trying the legislative approach.
    I typically do.
    Oh I used to be disgusted and now I try to be amused. But since their wings have got rusted, you know, the angels wanna wear my red shoes. But when they told me 'bout their side of the bargain, that's when I knew that I could not refuse. And I won't get any older, now the angels wanna wear my red shoes.

  9. #34
    Senior Member BengeBoy's Avatar
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    My kids and I saw an episode of "Mythbusters" where they decided to test whether driving while talking on the phone was really distracting. They had the drivers run an obstacle course, then tested them (a) while engaged in a conversation on the phone and (b) after drinking several drinks.

    They actually did worse during the cell phone test than during the drinking test (can't remember how much they drank).

  10. #35
    Approaching Nirvana megaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by will dehne View Post
    I just assume that the roads are full of incompetent or distracted drivers and bike very defensively.
    I don't assume. I know they are.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
    -- Albert Einstein

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by lighthorse View Post

    “Listen old man, you don’t live around here and it is non of your business if I was on the phone.
    Many times during an exchange of words with a motorist following an incident, I've been called an "old man".
    Feeling cornered by my rapier like wit, I suppose the "old man" insult is a pathetic attempt to save face. .

  12. #37
    Senior Member Rober's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulH View Post
    I hope to hell he loses it if that's what it takes to gets him off the road.
    Paul
    It wouldn't matter to me if it was Queen Elizabeth on her way to a knighting. I would grab my cell, call 911, report having almost been hit by a driver who is probably drunk and was driving recklessly and is now aggressive and threatening, give the tag number and a good description of the vehicle - all before even saying a word to the "driver." If I said anything at all it would be, "You aren't going to leave the scene of an accident where bodily injury occurred, are you?" Period.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalterMitty View Post

    If someone wants to step out of their vehicle and have a word with me they give up a lot in weight and speed. I'm 200+ and you'd better leave a door open and the motor running.
    LOL. I have had the one-time occasion to look into the panicked eyes of a driver who got out of his car to see this 200 lber coming at him swinging a helmet. I had bigger balls than brains back then.

  14. #39
    Senior Member freeranger's Avatar
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    You might have been lucky to have been where people could come out of their houses to see what was going on. A friend of a prev co-worker was riding in a rural area, and was confronted at a stop by a couple of jerks, and got into a fight (they took the first swing, as the story goes). Of course, 2 vs 1, he lost. Didn't get the plate, and nothing ever happened after that. But I wouldn't want to be the one to confront him now, hear there is "protection" in the jersey pocket now!

  15. #40
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    Driving Cell Phone Zombies are, of course, a regular nuisance. Over the years I have designated certain activities in which I simply will not get angry no matter what the provocation. Bicycling, motorcycling and kayaking certainly come with frequent enough provocation. I am so glad I stopped letting the slobs disturb my happiness. As far as the very real danger that one of them will kill me with his out-of control vehicle, I see it as a kind of game. It is a real pleasure to anticipate some bonehead's foolishness or at least react quickly enough to be able to make a smooth evasion, like I am avoiding some dog waste.

  16. #41
    Senior Moment Litespeed's Avatar
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    My girlfriends and I are all 50+ except for one. Yesterday we were riding down by the Embarcadero. This is a place where all the tourist go. It's like a large parking lot and it does have arrows pointing in only one direction for the cars. Hundreds of cyclist use this area to ride around and police have no problem with it since everyone knows that there are people walking, bicycles, pedicabs etc.
    We were heading back and on the far right going in the opposite direction of cars. Cars will pull in from off the street to get a parking spot, but we are always very watchful and go slow. One guy in a black Corvette decided he didn't like the 5 of us ladies riding in the opposite direction and deliberately headed for us in his car. He almost hit one of the ladies and she was forced to stop. He was yelling at us that it was a one way street (it's NOT a street) and he was trying to park. There were no open spaces where he could have parked where we were. I suppose if he keeps coming back to the Embarcadero he will try and take out all the cyclist around there. This is the first time I have ever encountered such behavior from a car in all the years I have been going down there. Maybe he was just having a bad day (THE JERK!).
    Cats are people too.

  17. #42
    Senior Member lighthorse's Avatar
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    I guess I should have put this post in the Safety forum but here it is and I appreciate all of the comments. A couple of my thoughts after another day.
    1. The first time that I sounded off at the point of conflict actually worked because he heard me, looked up and reacted to get his vehicle back on his side of the road. I would do that again. This is the point where I would honk my horn if I were in my car or on my motorcycle. I don't have a horn on my bicycle so I do often say something to get a driver's attention.
    2. As we passed and I was in the grass i again said something to the driver about getting off of his phone. That was a reaction that I should have swallowed, I was only a couple of feet from his window at that time. It did not add anything positive to the situation.
    3. I should have just proceeded on my way and let it go. I am fortunate that I was alert to this guys actions, I had a place to bail out of the impact zone, and took it.
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  18. #43
    Neil_B
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilG View Post
    I had bigger balls than brains back then.
    It's a Neil thing.

  19. #44
    Senior Member Ranger63's Avatar
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    Be carefull out there

    Places and times to avoid.
    7-9 am near middle schools
    7-9 am near a tim hortons resturant
    3-5pm especially on fridays and especially on main arteries out of metropolitn areas.
    People to watch for: Folks over 60. For some bizarre reason (because we may run out of life before we get there? Because the second cup of coffee just hit the large intestines and jostled that bowl of chili you had last night??)and it's usually we guys, are always in a damn hurry.
    Women in their late 30s thru late 40s driving large SUVs or minivans. (refer back to places and times to avoid)
    Guys in their late 20s thru early 40s in pick up trucks on rural highways. Biker whacking has moved right up there with mailbox bashing.
    And folks over 80. These gentle creatures have a view of the road that extends approximately 30' in front of their vehicles and 0' to either side of said vehicle.

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