Beverly

A friend just emailed this to me The picture is horrific.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-cyclists.html

10 Wheels

So is it safer to ride in a group?

Cone Wrench

That picture is getting a lot of play over in the Road forum. It's shocking.

It's also another reason why I don't like riding in groups and being hemmed in.

maddmaxx 

I still don't understand how this country can continue to allow more than 20,000 alcohol related deaths on the roads every year without some extreme outrage.

We just had another repeat offender kill his passenger here in CT while under suspension for a prior DUI.

Monoborracho

Madd...the incident was actually just over the border in Mexico, in Matamoros, though the driver was supposedly on drugs and from the Texas side of the border. The fatality was a U S citizen, I think. It was all the news on the South Texas stations over the last couple of days. They were on a group ride with a police escort when that happened.

I hope the guy does time in a Mexican jail.

WalterMitty

Until the penalties rise to the seriousness of the crime, no changes will occur. Examples of people driving on suspended or revolked licenses killing others are quite common.

Driving While Stupid (DWS) is a serious problem that cannot be resolved easily. The drunk, the doper, the half-wit, and the distracted are not responsible enough to function in a broad range of activities; but given the Human condition, I see no resolution to the problem in a reasonably free society.

maddmaxx 

A major shift in public attitude is required. If you treat drunk drivers who kill or mame like child molesters you will do the world a great favor.

Beverly

I don't think it makes much difference when it comes to drunk drivers.

We had a club member killed by a drunk driver in 1999. She was riding with another person who was seriously injured.

I had a co-worker whose 4 year old son was killed by a drunk driver while riding his trike on the family driveway. The drunk ran off the road and hit him

Artkansas 

We have to become enablers of drunk non-drivers. Create a culture that enthusiastically supports the notion that if you have been drinking that being driven is the best idea. Designated driver is a start, but it always puts the onus on one of the partiers. How about discount Taxi rates if you can prove a certain BA level?

Tom Bombadil

I, too, fear drunk drivers.

Approximately 3,000 people died in the 9/11 attack.

Since that attack, approximately 110,000 people have died on U.S. highways due to alcohol-related accidents. And total number injured is far higher.

It has always struck me that there should have been much more government attention focused upon our drinking & driving problems than on addressing the 9/11 situation.

It sure is a difficult situation to address. Throwing DUI's in prison for 10 years would hurt many families, drive our prison populations & cost sky high, and wouldn't rehabilitate many. OTOH, it is so aggravating to read about 5th, 7th, 10th or more DUI convictions of people who just will not quit driving. Even after their licenses are revoked.

IMHO a person driving while intoxicated is equivalent to someone walking through the mall with a loaded, drawn gun and should be treated just as seriously. But I don't have good answers for how to best address the situation.

The good news is that the number of alcohol-related deaths is dropping. It was around 25,000 per year in the early 80s, now it down in the 16,000-17,000 range. That is a significant drop.

maddmaxx 

When after his 9th or 10th DUI arrest they finally threw my brother in jail, he became cured. Just like that. He confided in me that the other prisoners in jail had almost as little consideration for DUI's as they did for rapiists that he thought he was not going to survive the 90 days. Its amazing what a little motivation will do for the soul. These sorts of cures do not have to be expensive forever...........after word gets out much of the problem goes away.

I wonder sometimes if we tolerate this sort of behavior as much as we do because its close to home.

zoste

Yes...I think that to be an effective deterrent the threat of jail has to be immediate, and real. Perhaps a diversionary program for a first offense, but 90 days for a second offense. The threat of getting caught has to be increased, too.

I agree - everyone can relate.

crackerdog

I would like to see laws changed too. Let's take away people's driving privileges for a while early in their drunk driving career. Like a year or two. If they drive while suspended, 5 years suspended license. If they are involved in an accident with a suspended license, 20 years suspended. If they caused the accident, charge them with knowingly causing the 'accident'. Start taking away their cars. We don't always have to put people in jail (though we seem to like that in the U.S.) there are many steps before that. For hit and run drivers, give them 1/2 hour to report it and then double the charges and triple them if they get caught without turning themselves in. Hit and run, first time -permanent loss of driving privileges. Drunk driver, third time, permanent loss. Let's get serious.

stapfam

We have a certain amount of Laxity to Drunk drivers over here too. It happens- and the majority of drivers take the 1 year ban and fine and abide by it. However- we still get the repeat offenders- drivers on the ban driving whilst drunk again- and even Killing others when they have an accident whilst under the ban.

Unfortunately- the punishment for the repeat offenders is not harsh enough. Last year in our county we had a driver -suspended already- that killed two people whilst drunk. He served a 3 month prison sentence and was then caught driving again whilst the original ban was still in force. All he got was a £100 fine as he was unemployed.

oilman_15106

There is a good discussion of this on Road Cycling along with a translation of the spanish article.

Drunk drivers are not my fear, it is bad drivers, period. As to the suspended drivers privlidges, it does not work. Some guy here in PA is finally going to prison for getting caught like 15 times dui with a suspended dirvers lisc. And also I really feel the books are cooked on the number of 20,000 deaths per year "related" to drinking? 54 per day every day of the year, mind you not promoting drinking and driving just truth in statistics.

Define related? I have never been able to get anyone from DOT or PENDOT or MADD to give me a definition.

maddmaxx 

I don't need related....................

1 in 5 fatal crashes has an unliscensed driver.
Auto crashes are the leading cause of deaths among the 2 to 34 year old age group.
10% (9% and change rounded up) of americans polled admitted to driving while intoxicated within the last month.

The above data from AAA

2003....43,220 deaths due to auto accidents within the US. The NHTSA estimated that 40% of those involved alcohol.

The numbers are so staggering that cutting them in half or doubling them would have no impact on the horror. Not the time or place to quibble over percentages. Like cigarette smoking, DUI kills people........often those just passing by.

John E

I have been a dues-paying member of MADD for over 20 years, and I am proud of what we have accomplished so far, but I am also painfully aware that this has not been enough. As a society, we need to find the political will needed to treat drunk drivers more harshly.

The California Assembly is considering a bill, but someone decided to delete the ignition sobriety interlock requirement from it -- go figure.

John E

That surprises me. I thought European governments were much tougher on drunk drivers than we are, or is that strictly a "continental" thing, in, say, Sweden or Germany?

The Weak Link

This is enough to give you The Fear.

stapfam

Laxity is relative to your opinion. Or Mine.

Getting drunk and driving and then getting caught is something that happens- if you drink and Don't use your common sense. The general rule over here is 12 months driving ban and a fine. In my opinion- If you then drive while serving the ban- You should be penalised heavily. Not a £100 fine and "Don't do it again". A second occurence of Drink Driving, at any time, can incur a Prison sentence of up to two years- but that is rarely imposed.
But in my opinion and some of the legal profession aswell, if you kill someone while DUI- it is murder- or attempted murder if you only injure them. Unfortunately- Our judges do not often look at it that way.

Kurt Erlenbach

Having been both a prosecutor and defense lawyer before entering the judicial world, I have conflicting opinions about DUIs. For a "simple" DUI - no accident, no injuries, just driving drunk - the mandatory penalties in Florida are very stiff. On the other hand, if one of my children were killed by a drunk driver (i.e., a simple DUI that goes just a little bit wrong), I would want the killer disemboweled with dull gardening tools. On the other (third, I guess) hand, driving while drunk is no more nor any less voluntary, or dangerous, than driving while sleepy, or driving while distracted by the cell phone, the coffee cup, or the screaming child in the back. A driver who kills while distracted is very unlikely to go to prison; one who kills while driving drunk will get a minimum sentence of about 12 years in Florida, unless a plea bargain gets something lower.

Part of the answer is greatly improved public transit. In my county there is usually about one fatal teen-aged drunk driving accident a year, in part because you can't get anywhere without a car.

Artkansas 

Sweden has very low levels 0.2. Germany is 0.5. Eastern European countries are even stiffer. Albania 0.1, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Kyrgyrstan, Slovak Republic and Romania 0

https://www.icap.org/portals/0/downlo...h/report11.pdf

Tom Bombadil

I'm hoping you meant to write 0.02, 0.05, or 0.01.

tandemedge

Check this article in the Hartford Courant ...

https://www.courant.com/community/new...,5033999.story

They failed to mention the time of the "accident" .... 7:30AM. The kid was 18 years old ... drunk and fled the scene of the accident. The most amazing thing in the article is the $15,000 bail. We accept this behavior and let people like this continue to have driving privileges. Until we take harsh actions on those that drink and drive we will continue to have "accidents" of this nature.

Spokes man

Horrific photo . . .

Drunk drivers, bad drivers, distracted drivers . . . all scare the @#*& out of me, whether riding or driving . . .

Drunk drivers are one reason I don't commute by bike, since I usually don't leave until after 11 p.m. -- prime time for drunks behind the wheel. It's hazardous enough avoiding them in the car, but at least I am wrapped in steel (and plastic)