Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-17-08, 05:31 AM   #1
Tony (Michigan)
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Tony (Michigan)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Back Pain Question

How can you know, without going to the doctor, if your lower back pain is attributable to your back bones (vertebrates) or your muscles?

If the lower vertebrates as stressed and painful will exercises such as planks and push-ups eliminate the pain?

By the way, I started this morning doing push-ups and planks. Man, I can feel the lower back on the push-ups.
Tony (Michigan) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 07:38 AM   #2
Beverly
Senior Member ??
 
Beverly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Englewood,Ohio
Bikes: 2007 Trek Madone 5.0 WSD - 2007 Trek 4300 WSD - 2008 Trek 520 - 2014 Catrike Trail
Posts: 5,094
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony (Michigan) View Post
How can you know, without going to the doctor, if your lower back pain is attributable to your back bones (vertebrates) or your muscles?

If the lower vertebrates as stressed and painful will exercises such as planks and push-ups eliminate the pain?

By the way, I started this morning doing push-ups and planks. Man, I can feel the lower back on the push-ups.
I have a really screwed up back and when it's bothering me the last thing I would want to do is planks or push-ups. Come to think of it, I never want to do push-ups for planks

Do a search on lower back exercises and you'll see several suggestions for relieving the lower back pain and strengthening the muscles in that area. Stretching exercises often help alleviate my back pain.

If the lower back pain persists you might want to see a doctor. No sense in letting the situation become worse. I had an MRI done during my last bout of back pain. I now know what the problem is and I can exercise to help keep the condition under control. I'm hoping the exercises help prevent painful episodes in the future.
__________________
=============================================================

Enjoy the little things in life, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things.
-- Antonio Smith
Beverly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 10:37 AM   #3
JanMM
rebmeM roineS
 
JanMM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In Central IN
Bikes: RANS V3, RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer
Posts: 13,397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Seek advice from a healthcare practitioner if this doesn't resolve. Lower back stretching is very important in prevention, as mentioned above.
JanMM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 01:32 PM   #4
bw77
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Bikes: Bianchi road bike
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I had problems with back pain, especially after a long walk, and what worked for me is Swiss Ball exercise. When done properly, you exercise the front, back, and sides of your core. If you want to try it, be sure to get good instruction, I recommend the dvd's made by Adam Ford, the best ones are his Core and Basics dvd's.
bw77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 02:06 PM   #5
Pamestique 
Shredding Grandma!
 
Pamestique's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: So Cal
Bikes: I don't own any bikes
Posts: 4,798
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Since you just did planks etc and your back is sore - it's probably just muscle soreness. If you had something serious like stenosis or a severe herniation, you would know it - the pain is constant, all the time.

Do good stretches after your workout. Also apply ice right after and then later heat. Try taking Aleve and Tylenol and see is the pain goes away. Bottom line with the exercise, expect some soreness.

and No! exercise will not eliminate pain - it's always the cause!
__________________
______________________________________________________________

Private docent led mountain bike rides through Limestone Canyon. Go to letsgooutside.org and register today! Also available: hikes, equestrian rides and family events as well as trail maintenance and science study.
Pamestique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 02:50 PM   #6
PirateJim
Senior Member
 
PirateJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tampa Bay area.
Bikes: '07 Trek Pilot 5.0, ~'92 Trek Navigator 400
Posts: 99
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
+1 to stretching after exercise.

I'll also suggest doing so before exercise. Laying on you back and pulling your knees to your chest gives the lower back a nice stretch. Doing this on a bed or mat will make the whole thing more comfortable. It is addictive, I pretty much never get out of the sack in the morning without spending time with this stretch.
PirateJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 03:33 PM   #7
BRNRBR
Burn Rubber
 
BRNRBR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sufferin' California
Bikes:
Posts: 107
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Answering the original post question...
You will know it is muscle and not vert (or disc) because the painful spot will tend to change and move around. This is due to the muscle compenstating for a sore one, doing the support/work job thus tiring and getting sore. Then another muscle compensates, and the pain moves again. It's probably a disc or vertebrae if the pain stays in one place.
BRNRBR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 03:57 PM   #8
alcanoe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony (Michigan) View Post
How can you know, without going to the doctor, if your lower back pain is attributable to your back bones (vertebrates) or your muscles?

If the lower vertebrates as stressed and painful will exercises such as planks and push-ups eliminate the pain?

By the way, I started this morning doing push-ups and planks. Man, I can feel the lower back on the push-ups.
Push-ups are recommended in some bike books as a good exercise for cyclists. Whether you should do then in your present condition or not is open to question. When I suffer an injury, I experiment to see which of my regular exercises help and hurt, then adjust my weight training accordingly until healed.

For a while, I was doing pushups from my knees to reduce the stress during the healing process.

Experimentation has worked for me for over 40 years and has never failed to lead to a cure. On the other hand, I don't get injured that often as I do a lot of core strength training to avoid injuries.

By the way, there is no scientific basis for stretching. I don't bother with it as I prefer to use the time for something more useful. Is that politically incorrect or what?

Al
alcanoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-08, 10:19 PM   #9
OldLog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Indiana
Bikes: Felt Z85
Posts: 128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Back pain is rather common as we age I guess. Mine is a daily thing. I had back surgery in March of 07 and the problem has reoccured but not as severe. Cycling actually has helped ease the pain believe it or not.
OldLog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-08, 05:07 AM   #10
alcanoe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldLog View Post
Back pain is rather common as we age I guess. Mine is a daily thing. I had back surgery in March of 07 and the problem has reoccured but not as severe. Cycling actually has helped ease the pain believe it or not.
It makes sense since cycling must stresses the back sufficiently to strengthen it. I know mountain biking does. I Used to suffer lower back pain periodically until I started jogging at age 26. Got a lot of pain at first, but it gradually went away over time. I would get it much less often after that.

It went away completely when I started weight training in my 40's. Now I'll get a minor pain for a couple of hours when I switch my mountain biking between the mountains and N Florida about every 6 to 8 weeks at age 69. It takes a ride or two to adapt to the drastically different conditions I guess.

Prior to age 26 I was a couch potato due to chronic asthma. I believe that was the cause of the problem. The lack of core strength likely the cause of 95% of the back problems. The age factor applies only in that one loses muscle mass rather quickly after age 40.

It's now understood that we are genetically programmed to decay after 40. Weight training with relatively heavy weights is as necessary after 40 as is aerobics. It's just not any fun.

A major benefit is a much higher energy level. You also develop/maintain far better balance, coordination and reflexes which also tend to degrade rapidly after 40. That's because weight training is about the only way to really exercise the muscle's fast twitch fibers. Cycling/jogging don't.

Al
alcanoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-08, 05:34 AM   #11
Nightshade
Humvee of bikes =Worksman
 
Nightshade's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 5,363
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony (Michigan) View Post
How can you know, without going to the doctor, if your lower back pain is attributable to your back bones (vertebrates) or your muscles?

If the lower vertebrates as stressed and painful will exercises such as planks and push-ups eliminate the pain?

By the way, I started this morning doing push-ups and planks. Man, I can feel the lower back on the push-ups.
Bone doesn't feel muscles do. That said, If your posture ,as well as your muscle tone, are good then
you are doing something that stresses the mucsles in that area causing them to protest (pain)
the activity.
__________________
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.

Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
Nightshade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-08, 07:02 AM   #12
bobkat
bobkat
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bismarck, ND
Bikes: Modified Burley Koosah, Trek Navigater folding, downtube folding
Posts: 746
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
BW - is the Swiss Ball you talk about one of those heavy inflatable beach ball things? I have one of those and when I can't get out on the recumbent to make my back feel better, exercises on that big ball thing really helps! I just should do them more often!
I personally don't believe in stretches, etc. Not saying not to try them, just don't do anything for me and good solid well done research on their benefits is lacking, though admittedly tough to do. But try them - if it feels good, do it!
bobkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-08, 07:30 AM   #13
thomson
Senior Member
 
thomson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Bikes:
Posts: 3,332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The difference between muscular and neurological pain is sometimes quite close. The neurological pain tends to be more acute and the muscular more spread out. The neurological pain can go from nothing to severe with very little movement (such as a short trunk twist) and a muscular pain tends to increase or decrease more linearly with movement.

If it is a nerve, it is best to rest until it is settled. This can be a few days after the symptoms have waned.
Muscle issues tend to offer better feedback allowing you to know how much to push it.

I am not a doctor,just a patient. These experiences are mine and may or not match yours.
__________________
thomson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-08, 11:49 AM   #14
bw77
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Bikes: Bianchi road bike
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
[ BW - is the Swiss Ball you talk about one of those heavy inflatable beach ball things? ]


Yes it is, and there is a lot you can do with it, with proper instruction.

http://www.amazon.com/Swiss-Ball-Bas...pd_sbs_d_njs_1

http://www.amazon.com/Swiss-Ball-Abs...d_bxgy_d_img_b
bw77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-08, 05:59 PM   #15
hotwired
Specialized Sirrus LTD
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Bikes: Secialized Sirrus Ltd
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The honest answer is that even a doctor can not determine the cause of back pain without x rays and mris. An mri will help determine whether the cause of your pain is a herniated disc, and can reveal other soft tissue abnormalities which x rays will not disclose.
hotwired is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-08, 06:17 PM   #16
10 Wheels
Galveston County Texas
 
10 Wheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In The Wind
Bikes: 2010 Expedition, 03 GTO
Posts: 29,894
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 303 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotwired View Post
The honest answer is that even a doctor can not determine the cause of back pain without x rays and mris. An mri will help determine whether the cause of your pain is a herniated disc, and can reveal other soft tissue abnormalities which x rays will not disclose.
Get a MRI.
__________________
[SIZE=1][B]What I like about Texas[/B]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGukLuXzH1E

Set F1re To The Ra1n ( NY Night Rain Ride)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7jfcWEkSrI
10 Wheels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-08, 05:04 AM   #17
Tony (Michigan)
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Tony (Michigan)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
Get a MRI.
An MRI is just out of the question . . . too expensive.

I might try to find some sort of seat shock absorber for the seat stem. I don't know where to find one.

Until then, I guess I am off the bike till my back heals up. I don't want this turning into a crippling event.

I think the road bumps are impacting my spine too much.

Maybe if I put on the original trail/road tires and just let some air out of them?

This is such a bummer.
Tony (Michigan) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-08, 06:21 AM   #18
ThinLine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Bikes: Basso, Tommaso, Ibex, Schwinn, SWOBO, Trek
Posts: 1,942
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I ride approx. 100 miles a week at a good clip and got back into it from 2 spinal surgerical procedures on my lower back at L4-5. I am in chronic yet somewhat bearable pain (the oxycontin talking) on a daily basis.

Nerve pain is much more severe than muscle pain and can go from your butt area down to your toes. I have also tried neurontin for nerve pain with little relieve. The bent over riding position of road cycling actually takes the pressure off my lower back, yet I pay for it when I stand up off the bike after a 22 mile
ride at approx. 17 mph.
Seek a Dr's advice, especially a neurosurgeon. I went to University of Penn Neuro unit.

Not complaining. 90% of the people don't care, the other 10% are glad you have it.
ThinLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-08, 07:22 AM   #19
10 Wheels
Galveston County Texas
 
10 Wheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In The Wind
Bikes: 2010 Expedition, 03 GTO
Posts: 29,894
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 303 Post(s)
[QUOTE=ThinLine;7091529]I ride approx. 100 miles a week at a good clip and got back into it from 2 spinal surgerical procedures on my lower back at L4-5. I am in chronic yet somewhat bearable pain (the oxycontin talking) on a daily basis.

Nerve pain is much more severe than muscle pain and can go from your butt area down to your toes. I have also tried neurontin for nerve pain with little relieve. The bent over riding position of road cycling actually takes the pressure off my lower back, yet I pay for it when I stand up off the bike after a 22 mile
ride at approx. 17 mph.
Seek a Dr's advice, especially a neurosurgeon. I went to University of Penn Neuro unit.

I am 66 y/o Ride 250 miles a week on a road bike.
I have 2 bad disc's in my back.
The Bent over riding position has almost made all my pain go away.
It took an MRI to find the pain problem. Once you know what is The Direct Cause of the Pain you can work toward getting better.
__________________
[SIZE=1][B]What I like about Texas[/B]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGukLuXzH1E

Set F1re To The Ra1n ( NY Night Rain Ride)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7jfcWEkSrI
10 Wheels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-08, 08:02 AM   #20
Tom Stormcrowe
Out fishing with Annie on his lap, a cigar in one hand and a ginger ale in the other, watching the sunset.
 
Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida
Bikes: Techna Wheelchair and a Sun EZ 3 Recumbent Trike
Posts: 16,120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Brooks spring saddle.

http://www.wallbike.com/brooks/singl...ngsaddles.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony (Michigan) View Post
An MRI is just out of the question . . . too expensive.

I might try to find some sort of seat shock absorber for the seat stem. I don't know where to find one.

Until then, I guess I am off the bike till my back heals up. I don't want this turning into a crippling event.

I think the road bumps are impacting my spine too much.

Maybe if I put on the original trail/road tires and just let some air out of them?

This is such a bummer.
__________________
. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
Tom Stormcrowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-08, 09:45 AM   #21
Tony (Michigan)
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Tony (Michigan)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What about a thumpbuster rather than a brooks saddle?
Tony (Michigan) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-08, 06:44 PM   #22
jay1680
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
also a member of the L4-L5 club and I am dealing with the same issues. Brooks Champion Flyer (springs) certainly helps with the Road bumps on the rural roads still trying to figure out optimum position for my situation.
jay1680 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-08, 12:03 PM   #23
Tony (Michigan)
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Tony (Michigan)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just took off the shock absorber seat post from my Schwinn comfort bike and put it on my LeMond Poprad with my Sella SMP saddle.

I wonder if this will help my lower back any.

Maybe if I ever found my aero bars and put them on if this would help take the thumping off my rear transferring the shock up my spine.

Of course, I do not absolutely know if road bumps are the source of my irritation!
Tony (Michigan) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-08, 03:19 PM   #24
Kragg
Pain ?? What Pain !!
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SJ,USA
Bikes: 2010 Felt F75
Posts: 209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bw77 View Post
I had problems with back pain, especially after a long walk, and what worked for me is Swiss Ball exercise. When done properly, you exercise the front, back, and sides of your core. If you want to try it, be sure to get good instruction, I recommend the dvd's made by Adam Ford, the best ones are his Core and Basics dvd's.
Ditto on the Swiss Ball. Great for the lower back.
Kragg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-08, 11:13 AM   #25
Tony (Michigan)
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Tony (Michigan)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomson View Post
The difference between muscular and neurological pain is sometimes quite close. The neurological pain tends to be more acute and the muscular more spread out. The neurological pain can go from nothing to severe with very little movement (such as a short trunk twist) and a muscular pain tends to increase or decrease more linearly with movement.

If it is a nerve, it is best to rest until it is settled. This can be a few days after the symptoms have waned.
Muscle issues tend to offer better feedback allowing you to know how much to push it.

I am not a doctor,just a patient. These experiences are mine and may or not match yours.
Thanks thomson,
I have been off the bike about 5 days and last night was the first time since. There was hardly any noticeable pain bending backwards a little. AFTER riding about ten miles last night and bending backwards the pain was very slight. Kind of like someone pushing into my backbone with their thumb.

I guess I'll have to try more time off or seek a chiropracter's help.
Tony (Michigan) is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:17 PM.