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  1. #1
    Fred E Fenders fthomas's Avatar
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    Dropping 8 oz off each wheel - Impact?

    Lite weight wheels are always a plus, but on a touring bike you can only go so lite.

    Dropping 8 0z off each rim would be like _____________ .

    Is it worth the expense?
    F Thomas

    "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving."
    Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

  2. #2
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    Correct- Light wheels are worth it but on a touring Bike?

    I have a set of Ultegras and they are light in comparison to my other wheels. 16 spokes up front and 20 rear and radial spoking. Don't think they would take touring though- but then the bikes are not set up for panniers either so it would never happen.

    The "Best set of wheels I have are Handbuilt. 36 spokes on a strong rim, 105 hubs and indestructable. They weigh about 800 grammes more than the Ultegras and have the same tyres fitted. Can't really feel any difference in the ride speed or acceleration but then I use them on different bikes aswell. What I do notice though is that the Cheap OM wheels That I have- are not good. The do not roll well and are flexible -which is not good on cornering at speed downhill (Not that they get up to speed as they Don't roll well)

    What I think is more important is component and Build quality. I am a believer in hand built and Even the Ultegras were tweaked by a good builder before I used them. The Mavic Aksiums I have are still in stock Condition and I have only done a couple of rides on them- They will be the winter/ foul weather wheels so won't put judgement on them yet.

    You don't say what wheels you have at present or what you are contemplating changing to but quality does pay. And Hand Built is certainly worth it.
    How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


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    Fred E Fenders fthomas's Avatar
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    I am having a set of Velocity Dyad rims built up with their hubs. The rims alone drop 8 oz off the factory wheel not to mention the Velocity hub probably will drop another 8 oz per wheel comparing 105 specs. Shimano does not even list the weight of the Tiagra.

    I love loosing weight!
    F Thomas

    "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving."
    Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

  4. #4
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
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    Whether or not you are losing weight (or even loosing it ), it sounds like a good wheelset.
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

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    Senior Member Bill Kapaun's Avatar
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    For steady, flat cruising, weight doesn't really matter. Accelerating or going up hill, it does.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fthomas View Post
    I am having a set of Velocity Dyad rims built up with their hubs. The rims alone drop 8 oz off the factory wheel not to mention the Velocity hub probably will drop another 8 oz per wheel comparing 105 specs. Shimano does not even list the weight of the Tiagra.
    Dyad rims will save 8oz over what you had before? I built up a set of Dyads for my tandem and I really like them a lot but, at 490 grams, I wouldn't call them light.

    I have no knowledge of Velocity hubs, but I love Shimano hubs. The weak link in a lot of specialty hubs is the freehub body mechanism. Shimano freehub bodnes are relatively reliable and, if one does happen to shoot craps, it's an easy part to find and replace.

  7. #7
    Fred E Fenders fthomas's Avatar
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    The Dyads are not lite in comparison to many road wheels, but much lighter than the A319's I have. The Velocity hubs have cartridge bearings and I hope that the free hub is good and strong. Shimano is hard to beat with the exception of a Phil Wood Hub. Way out of my price range!
    F Thomas

    "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving."
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    Velocity sources its hubs from Formula, as far as I am aware.

    Dyads are heavy rims by comparison wtih others I have had on my touring bike. Matched with Schwalbe Marathon XRs, the bike is a slug and it won't ever be used for randonnees again wth the set-up. Even for moderately loaded touring, I am having second thoughts.
    Dream. Dare. Do.

  9. #9
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    Velocity sources its hubs from Formula, as far as I am aware.

    Dyads are heavy rims by comparison wtih others I have had on my touring bike. Matched with Schwalbe Marathon XRs, the bike is a slug and it won't ever be used for randonnees again wth the set-up. Even for moderately loaded touring, I am having second thoughts.
    If it is a Formula hub- I would not touch it. The A 319 rim is heavy- 130 grammes heavier than the CXP33 rims I use. And they are not noted for lightness but they are strong. Mavic Open pros are lightish at 435grammed per rim and are a favourite for lightness with strength. And on the Hubs- I do have some exotic hubs on the Tandem but most of the other wheels on my bikes have Shimano Hubs. Good quality- Easy to replace bearings- Spares available everywhere and the Freehub is easily interchangable.(Although not repairable)
    How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


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  10. #10
    Small Member maddmaxx's Avatar
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    at 597 grams for the A319 and 480 grams for the Dyad, you are romoving just under 8 ounces from both rims combined, not each rim.

  11. #11
    Roadkill byte_speed's Avatar
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    BF logic (is that an oxymoron?): Rotating mass is more important than the mass of other parts.

    Therefore, you can gain 10 lbs. and still break even (have another slice of pie).

  12. #12
    Fred E Fenders fthomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    Velocity sources its hubs from Formula, as far as I am aware.

    Dyads are heavy rims by comparison wtih others I have had on my touring bike. Matched with Schwalbe Marathon XRs, the bike is a slug and it won't ever be used for randonnees again wth the set-up. Even for moderately loaded touring, I am having second thoughts.
    What rims would you recommend. I'm still open for suggestions.
    F Thomas

    "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving."
    Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

  13. #13
    Pat
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    I have heard that dropping weight from the wheels is a big deal because it is rotational weight. I ride heavy wheels because they are nearly bullet proof. So I wouldn't know.

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    You haven't set much in the way of criteria...However, I am about to lace up a set of Velocity Aeroheat (oc's on the rear), 36 hole, 3x onto Ultegra hubs.

  15. #15
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fthomas View Post
    What rims would you recommend. I'm still open for suggestions.
    Although I use Mavic CXP33 rims- these are a bit heavy for most riders- but Mavic Open Pros are still pretty strong and are lighter. Link to Mavic Website and look under products and Rims for weights.

    http://www.mavic.com/road/

    CXP33 rims are bombproof and I use 36 spokes to 105 hubs. Most would go higher spec on the hubs to Ultegra- but I am a cheap skate.



    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    I have heard that dropping weight from the wheels is a big deal because it is rotational weight. I ride heavy wheels because they are nearly bullet proof. So I wouldn't know.
    I ride bomb proof wheels and they are not heavy. Or at least I do not call 1750 grammes the pair heavy. And heavy Rotational weight is only a problem on acceleration and hillclimbing. Get up to speed and it does not matter how heavy your wheels are.

    And Bombproof- I ride the same wheels as a clydesdaledoes at the LBS. Admittedly he has to get them trued every year but he is a fit rider and strong. He is also big--How does 6'7" and 320lbs sound to you.
    How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


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  16. #16
    Small Member maddmaxx's Avatar
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    Conventional wisdom has for a long time said that rotational weight matters more than static weight. This follows from results proven in the automobile racing sciences. Bicycling however may not be quite the apples/apples comparison that most assume. For one thing, we have much less horsepower to deal with and for another we do not operate in anywhere the same relm of acceleration/deceleration that the auto racing folks do. Bicycles (even racing) tend to operate in much more of a steady state environment (you get to a speed for a certain condition and then you try to stay there for as long as your body will produce the necessary power.)

    One of the benchmarks for bicycle performance has been the 1 hour record (how far can one man go in on hour on a bicycle) Reciently there have been breakthrough's using very heavy wheels, presumably for their flywheel effect. DT Swiss ( I believe) has run some scientific tests with surprisingly mixed results. More close to home, one of the posters down in the Road Forum (Waterrockets) has performed some studies with power meters, and some difficult to go through math that indicate that some of what we have considered common knowledge about lighter wheels isn't quite so common.

    Lighter wheels will take weight off of your bike (whether or not its more important than non rotating weight remains to be seen). The bike will feel more lively and it will accelerate slightly more quickly. Much more performance than that is in the perception of the rider. Sometimes if the bike feels better, the rider will do better. It is probably more important for wheels to remain stiff and to stay round then to get light at the expense of those 2 things.

    Wheels that are very light are expensive, may not have the life expectancy that the average rider needs and may not give the performance that the average rider needs. There are practical limits as to how light a wheelset should be for those of us who are not professional racers with a healthy equipment budget.

    Edit: Stapfam has mentioned the 2 most commonly used high performance rims for the masses. The Mavic Open Pro has for some time been considered the gold standard for training or light race work. Its light and strong (possibly not quite as strong as one would want for a touring rim). The Mavic CXP33 is possible the best high performance rim that is readily available. The DT Swiss RR1.1 and 1.2 are close approximations of these rims as well.
    Last edited by maddmaxx; 08-02-08 at 01:24 PM.

  17. #17
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fthomas View Post
    What rims would you recommend. I'm still open for suggestions.
    What do you do with this bike? You said it is a touring bike, but do you use it for loaded touring? How much do you weigh? Will you be riding on rough pavement or dirt roads?
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

  18. #18
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    It does, as Blues and Smokester suggest, depend largely on the type of riding you want to do, and I am talking 700C, not 26" which is what the Aeroheat is.

    My touring bike started with Alex rims, but the broken spokes from the wheelset became a real pain.

    I then went to Aeroheads (700C and different from the Aeroheats), which are Velocity's equivalent to the Mavic Open Pro. They are OK for light touring and randonnees, but I would not recommend them for moderate to heavy touring. The Velocity Razor is an option midway between the Aerohead and Dyad.

    I suppose the thing about the Dyads is that they are wider than the other rims, so you really are committed to running wider than, say, 28mm tyres, which means heavier straight away (the Dyads are 24mm wide brake surface to brake surface, whereas the other models come in at 19-20mm).

    On my FG (my main ride these days for centuries and light to moderate touring), there are a pair of Velocity Aeros, which weigh in at the same claimed 480g as the Dyads, but are narrower and can take 23mm upward in tyre width. I suppose I should try shoehorning the Schwalbes on to them to determine the difference in feel between the Aero and Dyad.

    The CXP33s that stampfam discusses are a fine looking wheel and I seriously considered them for my CF project, but have opted for the Open Pros.

    Another thing to consider is the number of spokes and crossings in having a wheel built. I played around on the DTSwiss spoke calc when looking at options for the CF bike, and there are some small savings in going with double-butted two cross 32H with alloy nipples compared with straight gauge three cross 32H and brass nipples. Add a bit more for 36H.

    Ultimately, though, the savings are in 10s of grams, and really, you want reliability. Deeper V rims like the CXP33 offer that, at a slight weight penalty.

    The Formula hubs are OK, but I prefer their line of cartridge bearing ones. Sheldon Brown always said the Shimano hubs with cup and cone bearings and labyrinth seals were a cut above the rest, even the ones from their lowest model range.
    Dream. Dare. Do.

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