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Old 09-14-08, 07:17 AM   #1
cyclinfool
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ReBuild advice

I will start a thread shortly with some pics of my bike rebuild. The Simoncini is stripped and cleaned and the rebuild is in progress. I am scratching my head on the Ultratorque crankset though. This is very different than a typical BB/crank installation. There is no BB per say. There are two bearing cups and the actual bearings are pressed into the crank arms (much like the rear axel bearings on a car). Campy found a way to take a lot of weight out of the BB.

Here is the question - there are two ways to install the BB cups, either torque them in or apply locktite 222 and and tighten them in. On a Italian BB the non-drive side may tend to work the BB cup out as it is normal thread (lefty loosey). I feel more comfortable with some locktite but 222 (the low grip kind) is hard to find (I have tried the automotive parts houses, hardware stores, etc.). Also Locktite prevents corrosion and will seal the threads. What would you do - forge ahead and just torque them in or make a special order for the locktite?

My inclination is to do it right and just order the stuff on line and pay the excess shipping for such a small item. I guess I can justify it with all the other places my might actually use it if I had it...
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Old 09-14-08, 09:05 AM   #2
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I have enough problems getting Old BB's out after just a few years that have not had Loctite. So if you plan to keep the bike- Just torque it up and hope it stays tight. If you are selling the bike- Weld the cups in place next time they come loose.
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Old 09-14-08, 09:14 AM   #3
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I've always used grease. Never had one loosen. If it's a titanium frame, it takes a special grease.

As mentioned, I think Locktite would be risky. Also, I believe torque specs are based on lubed/greased threads.

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Old 09-14-08, 09:44 AM   #4
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Don't ask me. I can barely wash my bike.
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Old 09-14-08, 10:11 AM   #5
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I'd keep looking for the purple Loctite.
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Old 09-14-08, 10:13 AM   #6
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I recently changed the bolt that holds my crank arm on my FSA crank. The nice folks at FSA sent me the new steel bolt to replace the aluminum one and they included a small tube of loctite 641. The instructions for the 641 say to clean all parts with a non residue leaving cleaner, apply the 641 to both surfaces and torque to spec. It also says to allow 24 hours to cure and if you need to disassemble, to follow normal disassembly instructions. I don't know if the 641 is hard to find or not.
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Old 09-14-08, 02:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoMad View Post
I recently changed the bolt that holds my crank arm on my FSA crank. The nice folks at FSA sent me the new steel bolt to replace the aluminum one and they included a small tube of loctite 641. The instructions for the 641 say to clean all parts with a non residue leaving cleaner, apply the 641 to both surfaces and torque to spec. It also says to allow 24 hours to cure and if you need to disassemble, to follow normal disassembly instructions. I don't know if the 641 is hard to find or not.
Campy recommends getting all the greese off the threads before torquing it or locktiting the threads.
The frame is my steel Simoncini. I certainly can tell you the Veloce BB was difficult to get out - required a pipe on the wrench to get it free.
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Old 09-16-08, 09:16 AM   #8
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Locktite on a BB = NO.
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Old 09-16-08, 09:37 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclinfool View Post
On a Italian BB the non-drive side may tend to work the BB cup out as it is normal thread (lefty loosey).
You have it backwards.

Italian bottom brackets have right hand threads on both sides. Since there is a bearing between the BB spindle and the BB shell, the direction of the force is reversed. That makes the drive side want to unscrew itself.

English threaded bottom brackets solve the problem by using a left hand thread on the drive side.
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Old 09-16-08, 09:51 AM   #10
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IF you can, I would first torque them in, if that fails there is annother loctite, I thinks its the blue thats more of an anti-vibration product (I think) maybe try it. LIcktite website is http://www.loctiteproducts.com/produ...id=48&plid=153
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Old 09-16-08, 10:12 AM   #11
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mscdirect has it. 10ml for $13. The last 10ml bottle of 222 I bought lasted me about 10 years and my other hobby is racing cars. Every fastener on the car goes on with loctite, either red, blue, green or purple, depending on what size it is what its function is

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT...MT4NO=49999699

no doubt mcmaster-carr has it too.

you might find a single use packet of it somewhere for like a buck, like a better auto parts store (not autozone or advance -- the performance and nashbar of auto parts)
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Old 09-16-08, 05:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilman_15106 View Post
Locktite on a BB = NO.
I would agree that a normal BB needs no locktite but this is no normal BB. The Ultratorque is a very different crank/BB design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
You have it backwards.

Italian bottom brackets have right hand threads on both sides. Since there is a bearing between the BB spindle and the BB shell, the direction of the force is reversed. That makes the drive side want to unscrew itself.

English threaded bottom brackets solve the problem by using a left hand thread on the drive side.
You may be correct as I have never taken apart an english BB - but I am glad you said this as I plan to remove the BB on my Tarmac when the season is over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
IF you can, I would first torque them in, if that fails there is annother loctite, I thinks its the blue thats more of an anti-vibration product (I think) maybe try it. LIcktite website is http://www.loctiteproducts.com/produ...id=48&plid=153
Locktite blue is different than 222 (purple) as it is medium grip where 222 is light grip, easier to remove the bolt. Blue is easy to find - Lowes and most automotive parts stores carry it.



Fastenal got the Locktite 222ms for me after I called them yesterday - picked it up today. About $14 for 10ml. I will use it on the cups and crank bolt. I will install it tonight - may even get the build finished as the crank and chain and drive train adjustments are the big things left - after that I just have to wrap the bars up.

Thanks for the help.
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