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Thread: Tires? #!@*!#!

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    Tires? #!@*!#!

    Ol' Fuj came equipped with a set of 700 x 25 ugly, no-name, quite generic Kenda tires. I didn't have any flats for 3,500 miles. I got spoiled. I tried in vain to get some of these tires as replacements. The replacement tires were the Kenda Kriterium (with "Iron Cloak") in 700 x 23. They roll really well, but they are too flat-prone for my liking. I hit something on the road a while back, and the Kriterium on the rear was sliced open. I went to the nearest LBS, and the proprietor installed a Vittoria Rubino Tech. It rolls OK, but it has been flat prone of late.

    Today, I went to the LBS to look at tires, and here's what's available in 700 x 23:

    Maxxis Re-Fuse
    Continental Grand-Prix Super Sonic
    Panaracer EV2
    Schwalbe Evolution Stelvio
    Continental Ultra Gator Skins
    Schwable Marathon Plus

    I would appreciate any guidance/experience you may have with regard to these tires. I'm looking for something that rolls reasonably well but is not so flat prone. The proprietor of the LBS said that he runs the Schwalbe Marathon Plus on his bike, that they are almost flat proof, and that they are HEAVY. I'm probably not looking for HEAVY.

    Help!

  2. #2
    Life is good RonH's Avatar
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    I've been riding on Continental Grand Prix 3000, then 4000, now 4000S. I average 1500-2000 miles between flats. And that's riding on the crappy, glass, debris, and trash strewn streets around Atlanta.
    My bikes: 2001 Litespeed Tuscany---2015 Cannondale Supersix EVO carbon 105

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    Senior Member late's Avatar
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    If your bike can take a 27c tire, I would suggest the Rivendell Ruffy Tuffy. It's big enough that you can lower the pressure and both get a sweet ride and make it last a little longer.

    The Continental 28c tires are only a teeny bit large than what you have now and the gatorskins don't flat much.
    Old Man Maine

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    Lincoln, CA Mojo Slim's Avatar
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    Can't go wrong with Continentals. I used Gatorskins for years, now use 4000s's.
    Truth is stranger than reality.
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    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    The OCR came with Kenda Kontendors and it was not till I rode them last week again- that I realised how poor a quality tyre they are for me. Mine are in 26 and I am now used to riding a 23.

    It does depend on what you are looking for but if it is flat resistance- then I can recommend the schwalbes. Had them on the Tandem and it took around 2,000 miles before the rear tyre wore out and not long after before the front got a flat. Changed over to continentals and they do roll better and still no flats but not enough milage on them to get any either.

    And I use Michelin PR 2's on the road bikes- just to throw another make into the ring. Grip is good- weight is light and puncture resistance seems pretty good aswell.
    How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


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    Small Member maddmaxx's Avatar
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    My experiences with Kenda are just the opposit of the OP. The OEM generic Kenda's were as Stapfam says just plain awful.

    The Kaliente Iron Cloak series has been just the opposite experience, fast, smooth and flat free. I will admit though that I have not hit anything that would "slice" a tire open and I'm not sure if any performance tire would survive that.

  7. #7
    nowheels
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    I have had a good past season with a few sets of the gatorskins in a 700/28 on some pretty rough roads... no flats with them this year.

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    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Tires and chain lubes. Reasonable people seem to have very strongly held, but contrary, opinions.

    The good news is both are something that you use up so you aren't married to one brand for the rest of your life. I pick a tire brand and continue to use them until they make me mad for some reason. Then I switch to something else. For the past couple of years I've been using Gatorback 28's on my tandem and retro grouch bike. I'm using Michelins on the go-fast bike because I don't care so much about flat protection on that bike.

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    Anybody use those strips that go inside, on fast tires???
    Bud

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    What causes your flats particularly? Why go to a 23?
    suum quique
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    Senior Member staehpj1's Avatar
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    Marathon Pluses are like anchors, way too heavy. Forget them if you are at all performance oriented. Maybe if you want a commuting tire for debris strew roads, but otherwise no. I have them on my touring bike and regret the choice.

    The Ultra Gatorskins are tough but not so bad in performance. It you want a rugged tire they may be a good choice.

    If you want more performance some of the others may be better.

    FWIW: My Kaliente Iron Cloak tires that came on my road bike ride great and are holding up very well so far, but they have less than 1000 miles on them so it is early to tell how they will hold up.

    I have to wonder if the difference might be at least partly that you went from 25mm to 23mm. Are you running them with enough pressure that you are not getting pinch flats?
    Last edited by staehpj1; 11-09-08 at 11:31 AM.

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    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldster View Post
    Anybody use those strips that go inside, on fast tires???
    Bud
    I've never felt that if a product was properly designed you should have to buy an accessory to make it work.

    I've heard from several sources that Mr Tuffie's can abrade the inner tube where the Mr Tuffy overlaps and can actually cause flats. I haven't heard the same storys about Spin Skins, for example, but I don't really know.

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    Yen
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldster View Post
    Anybody use those strips that go inside, on fast tires???
    Bud
    Do mean something like the kevlar liners? We have them in our tires... is there a reason to NOT have them?
    Specialized Roubaix Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikinfool View Post
    What causes your flats particularly? Why go to a 23?
    I have had three or four slow-leak flats lately. Have inspected rims for damage and have inspected tires each time and could not find foreign matter. I don't think I'm getting pinch flats as I run tire pressure at the maximum rating printed on sidewall.

    As for 23s, I don't race or compete, but I like to go as fast as my capabilities will allow every now and then. Also, we have lots of hills in the area, and I want to get up them (and get it over with) as rapidly as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
    I have to wonder if the difference might be at least partly that you went from 25mm to 23mm. Are you running them with enough pressure that you are not getting pinch flats?
    I run maximum pressure according to what is printed on the side wall.

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    Small Member maddmaxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctor j View Post
    I run maximum pressure according to what is printed on the side wall.
    You might get better results backing off to something less that the max on the sidewall. Something like 90% of max may provide a better ride and fewer flats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yen View Post
    Do mean something like the kevlar liners? We have them in our tires... is there a reason to NOT have them?
    Yea ,think they are mr. tuffy or something like that.
    Is there a downside to using them? if not that may make the tire decision easier. Perfomance wants $36 for 'em and Cambria is $12...

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    Senior Member staehpj1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmaxx View Post
    You might get better results backing off to something less that the max on the sidewall. Something like 90% of max may provide a better ride and fewer flats.
    Depends on what kind of flats he is getting. If pinch flats then more air would help.

  19. #19
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
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    Been using the Maxxis Re-Fuse tires on our tandem; lots of stuff here in the Southwest to flatten tires; while they are not 'flat proof', they are a big cut above other tires and less prone to flats. The have a Kevlar bead, are nowhere near heavy and take 120 lbs pressure and roll very easy.
    Just our experience.

  20. #20
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldster View Post
    Yea ,think they are mr. tuffy or something like that.
    Is there a downside to using them? if not that may make the tire decision easier. Perfomance wants $36 for 'em and Cambria is $12...
    I can't think of a downside...other than adding weight, making the tires run rougher, reducing road feel and possibly causing flats.
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

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    Most bike tires are like automobile race tires - they make a huge sacrifice in durability for performance. All the tires on your list other than the Marathon Plus fall into this category. The Marathon Plus is equivalent to a DOT approved street tire. If you demand the same reliability from your bike as from your car, it is the best performing of the tires that will satisfy this requirement. I've gone well over 12,000 miles without a flat. My experience is that they roll nearly as easily as the more sporting tires, but with an immense increase in practicality.

    On the other hand, I still remember how much fun my car was to drive when I swapped the street wheels and tires for Minilites and Formula Ford rubber. The temptation to bungee the street tires to the roll bar and drive home from the event on the race tires was often strong.

    Paul

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    Senior Member Terrierman's Avatar
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    I've had good luck with my Ultra Gatorskins.
    It's all downhill from here. Except the parts that are uphill.

  23. #23
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    The variety of bike tyres around and it makes you realise that there must be a Market for all the different types. I learnt a long time ago that I like a certain type of tyre. Offroad and on our terrain- and I like a certain type of tyre. Plenty of sharp edges to get grip- not too much space between the knobbles to give me plenty of rubber to make contact- and a rounded tread that does not drag on the short grass on the Downs. This has settled out to 3 or 4 different tyres that I could use out of the hundreds that are made. There may be more that are just as good but I have never tried them.

    It is the same on road tyres. They may all basically look the same but there will be a difference in constuction- difference in type of rubber and a difference in puncture resistance. I have only used four different tyres on the road. Kenda contendors and They had drag and not a great deal of grip. The original tyres Boreas and they were vrederstein Fortezza's. They wore out within 500 miles and did not have the grip I thought should be there. Michelin Lithions and in the wet they should be called Lethal Ions. I am using these as my winter tyres though as speed will be lower and I might as well damage a tyre I do not like. Then there is the one I like Mich PR2's. I got these on the recomendation of the LBS and was one of the two I was thinking of. I like them so I stay with them. .
    Then there is the Tandem- and I hate to say it but I do not look for a performance tyre on this bike. It has to be strong- hopefully have a long life and good puncture resistance.

    Decide what you want from a tyre and then look at the choices. Deciding is the problem- Tyre size. puncture resistance, long life, performance, and finally price. Somewhere there will be a tyre that suits all your criteria- but it might just take a bit of finding. And a bit of money to find the ones that you don't like
    How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


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    I concur with stapfam - I really like the the Michelin PR2's, especially the road feel they provide.

  25. #25
    Grumpy Old Bugga europa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
    I can't think of a downside...other than adding weight, making the tires run rougher, reducing road feel and possibly causing flats.
    A miniscule amount of weight.
    The tyres do NOT run any rougher, I'm unaware of them and have put them on three bikes now.
    They do not reduce road feel, don't affect the way the tyre behaves at all and one of the tyres they've gone in were Maxxis Detonators which are a really thin tyre to start with.
    Cause flats? How? I did get one really long piece of glass that pierced the tyre (a 'hard case') and the tyre liner - the tyre liner helped seal the hole so I got home without having to change the tyre ... I found out I had a flat the next morning dammit.

    Richard
    I had a good bike ... so I FIXED it

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