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  1. #1
    Senior Member SaiKaiTai's Avatar
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    (N-1)+(N+1)=Net 0

    Farewell Gary Fisher, old friend
    Hello Jamis, new friend
    '13 Felt Z3 - '08 Jamis Aurora Elite - ('07 Giant OCR C2)

  2. #2
    Muscle bike design spec robtown's Avatar
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    or = 2N

    Must have pictures. Jamis road bike? I'm building a Jamis Eclipse and built a Jamis Comet this summer.
    Korval is Ships
    See my Hyperlite 411 it's the photo model on OutRiderUSA web page

  3. #3
    hello roadfix's Avatar
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    I have several 1/2N's in the garage. Some may eventually become full N's while others will remain 1/2N's indefinitely.
    .cinelli.olympic.surly.long.haul.trucker.kona.ku.surly.steamroller.
    .litespeed.classic.litespeed.firenze.bianchi.pista.dean.colonel.plus.more.

  4. #4
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
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    Cool. Let's see the pictures. That would be the Jamis tourer with CX-like geometry, right? Looks like a nice bike

    But bad math. Whatever number of bikes you have at any given moment = N
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

  5. #5
    Small Member maddmaxx's Avatar
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    Making you immediately ready for N+1.

  6. #6
    Senior Member SaiKaiTai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
    Cool. Let's see the pictures. That would be the Jamis tourer with CX-like geometry, right? Looks like a nice bike

    But bad math. Whatever number of bikes you have at any given moment = N
    Well, yeah, there is that, isn't there?

    Pictures?
    All in good time. I just swapped the pedals out and the saddle.
    You'll blanch, I know, but I'm trying my B-67 on the bike.
    This is my "built for comfort, not for speed" bike so I'm giving it a shot.
    And I don't even get to ride it yet.
    I actually have to make an appearance at work tomorrow and after we're having our group's xmas dinner.
    No night ride, either
    But, come Thursday

    And, yep, it's the '08 Jamis Aurora Elite. There's a guy online somewhere who discounts the role of bottom bracket drop in a bike's stability. He thinks the trail is much more important. I dunno but this bike was really solid carving down a pretty sharp drop. I can't wait...

    Now, anyone want a Reno? That's next (and on the block now)
    '13 Felt Z3 - '08 Jamis Aurora Elite - ('07 Giant OCR C2)

  7. #7
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
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    I shouldn't have even mentioned the geometry. There are a whole lot of factors affecting how a bike handles and feels and what matters is the net effect - how it all comes together and works for you. From what you have posted on here, you have ridden this bike a few times and it started talking to you from the beginning. I'm betting this bike is going to turn out to be a great addition to your stable and will lead to all sorts of new ways for you to enjoy cycling. Happy trails.
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

  8. #8
    Senior Member SaiKaiTai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesDawg View Post
    I shouldn't have even mentioned the geometry. There are a whole lot of factors affecting how a bike handles and feels and what matters is the net effect - how it all comes together and works for you. From what you have posted on here, you have ridden this bike a few times and it started talking to you from the beginning. I'm betting this bike is going to turn out to be a great addition to your stable and will lead to all sorts of new ways for you to enjoy cycling. Happy trails.
    Oh no, no worries there.
    You said nothing that got me second guessing, no offense was taken, etc...
    Once I took this baby down that hill, all doubts vanished. I am so excited about this bike's future.
    I really kind of see it as the child my Fisher and my LeMond would have had.
    The bike I was looking for when I bought my Kaitai but didn't know it.

    And believe me, I've done a LOT of reading about bike geometry and how it relates to "feel"
    Some of it makes perfect sense and some I might come to understand more later.
    I do think I understand why this bike feels the way it does but, then, I've only ridden it for about 10 miles. There's a lot more to learn. Comparing and contrasting with my Giant is going to be interesting.

    One thing I do remember now is how much I hate V-brake noodles.

    edit: ohhhhh... I see it now. No, when you said:
    "But bad math. Whatever number of bikes you have at any given moment = N"

    I said:
    "Well, yeah, there is that, isn't there?"

    As in:
    "Yep, you're absolutely right."

    My bad...
    '13 Felt Z3 - '08 Jamis Aurora Elite - ('07 Giant OCR C2)

  9. #9
    His Brain is Gone! Tom Bombadil's Avatar
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    Congrats. Glad to hear that you completed both transactions.
    "Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen." Louis L'Amour

    There are two types of road bikers: bikers who are faster than me, and me. Bruce Cameron - Denver Post

  10. #10
    Senior Member
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    What, we're gonna have algebra around here? No way, man. bk

  11. #11
    Time for a change. stapfam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bkaapcke View Post
    What, we're gonna have algebra around here? No way, man. bk
    This isn't Algebra- It is just a simple formulation of requirements where N= the number of bikes have-or need. N+1 just improves the situation. But To lose one bike to gain one that is better required is just common sense. No improvement yet.
    How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.


    Spike Milligan

  12. #12
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robtown View Post
    or = 2N

    Must have pictures. Jamis road bike? I'm building a Jamis Eclipse and built a Jamis Comet this summer.
    I noted the same thing. He ends up with twice the number of bikes with which he started. This is probably closer to the right answer over the long term.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  13. #13
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Parts that will be used sometime in the future, or to replace existing equipment, are considered "consumable supplies" right? So if the current inventory of "consumable supplies" could be assembled into another bike is that N+1?

  14. #14
    Senior Member SaiKaiTai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    I noted the same thing. He ends up with twice the number of bikes with which he started. This is probably closer to the right answer over the long term.
    How so? I started with a Kaitai, a Reno, and an OCRc2.
    Now I have a Reno, an OCRc2, and an Aurora Elite.
    Status quo, no?

    The Reno is on the block so ultimately (N-2)+(N+1)=2. Perfect.

    I'm not really looking to increase my numbers.
    What I really want is the right mix
    '13 Felt Z3 - '08 Jamis Aurora Elite - ('07 Giant OCR C2)

  15. #15
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaiKaiTai View Post
    How so? I started with a Kaitai, a Reno, and an OCRc2.
    Now I have a Reno, an OCRc2, and an Aurora Elite.
    Status quo, no?

    The Reno is on the block so ultimately (N-2)+(N+1)=2. Perfect.

    I'm not really looking to increase my numbers.
    What I really want is the right mix
    Absolutely, however your math seemed a bit fuzzy.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  16. #16
    Senior Member SaiKaiTai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Absolutely, however your math seemed a bit fuzzy.
    Ohhhh... I think I see what you mean. Net 0 would be having no bikes which just ain't true (or right, but that's another matter). Instead of Net 0, I should have said Net change 0. D'Oh!
    '13 Felt Z3 - '08 Jamis Aurora Elite - ('07 Giant OCR C2)

  17. #17
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet View Post
    Parts that will be used sometime in the future, or to replace existing equipment, are considered "consumable supplies" right? So if the current inventory of "consumable supplies" could be assembled into another bike is that N+1?
    As long as they "could be assembled", it would only be potential N+1. Once they are actually assembled and made into a bike, then you have N+1. At any rate, though, unless that pile of spare parts includes a spare frame, you're going to have a hard time making it into a bike.

    Hmm, come to think of it, my spare parts collection does include two MTB frames.
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

  18. #18
    Retrogrouch
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    To be algebraically correct it would be ((N -1) + 1) = N. However, as others have pointed out (N + 1) isn't really about algebra. After all, as soon as you get (N + 1) that becomes the new (N) which means that (N + 1) = N.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Old School's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaiKaiTai View Post
    Ohhhh... I think I see what you mean. Net 0 would be having no bikes which just ain't true (or right, but that's another matter). Instead of Net 0, I should have said Net change 0. D'Oh!

    Correct-a-mundo! Zero (0) bikes would be a sad state of affairs indeed!
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "WOW! WHAT A RIDE!"

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