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  1. #1
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
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    Arthritic knee update, interesting observation

    You all have arthritis, right? Who doesn't? If you ever had a sport injury and you're over 30, you have it someplace. I have it in my right knee. Two operations, the big one an ACL reconstruction in 1989 @ age 31. Now I'm 51, and my knee is getting cranky. So last year my orthopod gave me a series of pricey but very effective Synvisc shots (think super-cortisone). That was February 08. My knee was great until September, then it started getting stiff, slightly swollen. He prescribes Meloxicam, a drug like Ibuprofen, but prescription. That turns out to be a miracle drug. My knee gets cranky, I pop a pill like once a week, and it's fine again. Then by January this year I'm taking that drug daily. My knee is responding, but it's crankier.

    But here's the interesting part. I've been lifting weights since November. I do squats with like 450 lbs. You would think this would stress my knee (little meniscus cartilage in the right knee). But no. My knee feels much BETTER after I do a heavy weight session. Go figure. I call my orthopod. He says the cycling is repetitive motion in the same spot, which can aggravate an arthritic knee. The weight lifting uses different motions and the exercise is good for it.

    That's good, because it's motivation to persist with the lifting into the bike racing season. I have an appointment for more Synvisc shots March 2, but I will probably cancel it and try to hit the gym three days a week. That will be harder once my mileage ramps up, but I do like the way my knee feels.

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    I've been toying with the idea of doing some weights at the gym, (in addition to the eliptical and rowing machine) but didn't want to overstress my 53 year old knees.

    Maybe I'll give it a try today.

    Do you do squats with free weights, or use a machine?

  3. #3
    Peloton Dog patentcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPlKE View Post
    I've been toying with the idea of doing some weights at the gym, (in addition to the eliptical and rowing machine) but didn't want to overstress my 53 year old knees.

    Maybe I'll give it a try today.

    Do you do squats with free weights, or use a machine?
    It's a machine you put the barbells on. I can do squats employing the limited range of motion I have in my knee. All machines, some that employ free weights, but not with a barbell/free squats. I prefer free weights, when I do any upper body work, that's what I use. I bag the free weights for my upper body by January, I stick to pushups, core work, legs. I'm trying to get leaner, not bulkier.

  4. #4
    Ride Daddy Ride Jet Travis's Avatar
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    Weights definitely help with my creaky joints--BUT (in my case, at least) really heavy weights lead to increasing aches and pains. Instead of 8-10 reps in a set, I now do 15 reps with a lighter weight than in the past. I may not be getting maximum benefit, but it keeps me out of the re-injury zone.

    By the way, there's some interesting talk about how weight training can improve creaky joints in the book Younger Next Year.
    "Light it up, Popo." --Levi Leipheimer

  5. #5
    Semper Fidelis
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    weight lifting should be in everyones health agenda rather young or old to help keep and build bone density.
    I did squats religiously for years but with increasing age you may want to consider dead-lifts, a full body movment that build complete overall strength, especially in quads and hamstrings, calfs, incoporating squats can be implemented in this movement and afterwards do leg presses on machines.

    Stay away from leg extensions as many will completely lock there leg completely out, if you do leg extensions only come to about a 45 degree angle as this will less likely promote injury
    "Advantages Must Be Pressed, Disadvantages Must Be Overcome"

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    Banned. DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAMMER MAN View Post
    Stay away from leg extensions as many will completely lock there leg completely out, if you do leg extensions only come to about a 45 degree angle as this will less likely promote injury

    I recently read in some bicycling literature (or perhaps somewhere else) that leg extensions really duplicate no actual movement that one does in life and to forget doing them. I have! I suppose that if you kick a ball like in soccer, they might be useful.

    The advantage of free weights over machines like the Smith machines is that the Smith machine (and others) do not allow for building the stabilizer muscles associated with the main muscle - the stabilizer muscles are those which help to keep things in proper position.

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    Banned. DnvrFox's Avatar
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    As far as osteoarthritis, we all start developing it in one form or another in our 20's - some more than others.

    My wife has osteo real bad - one doc told her she could never ride again, but she proved that doc wrong, and we sent him a picture of her completing the 25 mile ride from Frisco to Vail Pass and back - about 2,500 feet of gain, at about 68 years of age.

    At age 69, however, I have absolutely no visible signs nor symptoms of osteoarthritis.

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    Creaky knees

    I'm 52 and have creaky knees too. Old HS sports injury that was later agravated with a martial arts injury when I was in my late 20's. About 2 yrs ago I hurt it again while jogging, the right knee. I had surgery on it about 15 months ago, followed by the synvisc injections. That stuff is great but it took me about 6-8 months to feel the full benefit from them. Costly for sure but good stuff. I still slurp Glucosomine nearly every day like it was mother's milk but the knee mostly feels good unless a thunderstorm is coming, lol. This had enabled me to get back into cycling. I did mtn bikes for years, but this year is my first on a real road bike. It has been fun so far.

    Irish

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    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Travis View Post
    Weights definitely help with my creaky joints--BUT (in my case, at least) really heavy weights lead to increasing aches and pains. Instead of 8-10 reps in a set, I now do 15 reps with a lighter weight than in the past. I may not be getting maximum benefit, but it keeps me out of the re-injury zone.

    By the way, there's some interesting talk about how weight training can improve creaky joints in the book Younger Next Year.
    If your lifting set totals more pounds then your getting more benefit! For example if you do 10 reps @ 150lbs the total weight moved is 1,500lbs. Doing a set of 15 reps @ 125lbs the total weight moved is 1,875lbs or around 20% more work . The body doesn't count reps when it is forced to work, it recogonizes how much it was asked to do then will adapt when the stresses continue.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  10. #10
    Senior Member Terrierman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
    You all have arthritis, right? Who doesn't? If you ever had a sport injury and you're over 30, you have it someplace. I have it in my right knee. Two operations, the big one an ACL reconstruction in 1989 @ age 31. Now I'm 51, and my knee is getting cranky. So last year my orthopod gave me a series of pricey but very effective Synvisc shots (think super-cortisone). That was February 08. My knee was great until September, then it started getting stiff, slightly swollen. He prescribes Meloxicam, a drug like Ibuprofen, but prescription. That turns out to be a miracle drug. My knee gets cranky, I pop a pill like once a week, and it's fine again. Then by January this year I'm taking that drug daily. My knee is responding, but it's crankier.

    But here's the interesting part. I've been lifting weights since November. I do squats with like 450 lbs. You would think this would stress my knee (little meniscus cartilage in the right knee). But no. My knee feels much BETTER after I do a heavy weight session. Go figure. I call my orthopod. He says the cycling is repetitive motion in the same spot, which can aggravate an arthritic knee. The weight lifting uses different motions and the exercise is good for it.

    That's good, because it's motivation to persist with the lifting into the bike racing season. I have an appointment for more Synvisc shots March 2, but I will probably cancel it and try to hit the gym three days a week. That will be harder once my mileage ramps up, but I do like the way my knee feels.
    Your experience is exactly the opposite of mine. Both of my knees have been scoped, the right one twice now. The more I spin the better my knees feel. Weight bearing exercises (the sled, which is basically squats on a machine) result in days of pain afterwards. Synvisc (made from rooster comb) did nothing for me either, but plain old cortisone is miraculous. Thanks to weight loss and lots of riding and time in the gym, (I go four days a week, ride the life cycle 30 minutes to one hour at heart rate of 135 and approximately 100 to 110 RPM, then lift for about 30 minutes working on arms, back and abs) it has been over 12 months since my last injection. Whatever works is what we should do.
    It's all downhill from here. Except the parts that are uphill.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DnvrFox View Post
    I recently read in some bicycling literature (or perhaps somewhere else) that leg extensions really duplicate no actual movement that one does in life and to forget doing them. I have! I suppose that if you kick a ball like in soccer, they might be useful.

    The advantage of free weights over machines like the Smith machines is that the Smith machine (and others) do not allow for building the stabilizer muscles associated with the main muscle - the stabilizer muscles are those which help to keep things in proper position.
    I don't do leg extensions what so ever, but many still do for osme reason.

    dead-lifts,free weights going all the way down into a squat style position then performing the rest of the movement will implement more than just squats as it is a compound movement, it encompasses the full body.
    I have found them too be very beneficial and afterwards using a leg press with more weight.

    each to thier own though
    "Advantages Must Be Pressed, Disadvantages Must Be Overcome"

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    my 2 cents worth....
    I started doing leg presses, and or squats, and totally screwed up a knee. took a couple months to get better, now I do curls and extensions with medium weights, staying at the middle of the movement range, and have not had any more problems....(sound of knocking on wood)
    Bud

  13. #13
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet View Post
    If your lifting set totals more pounds then your getting more benefit! For example if you do 10 reps @ 150lbs the total weight moved is 1,500lbs. Doing a set of 15 reps @ 125lbs the total weight moved is 1,875lbs or around 20% more work . The body doesn't count reps when it is forced to work, it recogonizes how much it was asked to do then will adapt when the stresses continue.
    Age 60...During October to December last year, I was doing 10 sets of 10 on the inclined leg press machine as well as other other leg / core exercises twice per week. I would follow-up the weight workout immediately with intervals on the trainer. My seenk feel great.

    Since I did 100 repetitions at 150 pounds, does that mean I get credit for 15,000 pounds?
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

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    Recovering mentalist Randochap's Avatar
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    I've recently gotten more serious about weight training (had an appointment w/ trainer yesterday) and though it's too soon to say how much it might help with my various arthritic joints, as discussed on this thread, weight bearing excercise is a very important adjunct to our bone-density-sapping sport.

    As I mentioned there, Bike For Life, by Roy Wallack and Bill Katovsky -- is a good all round guide for those who plan on riding to 100.
    VeloWeb | VeloWebLog

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  15. #15
    Senior Member TromboneAl's Avatar
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    I do squats with like 450 lbs.
    That sounds like so much weight! I do dumbbell squats holding a 45 pound dumbbell in each hand (age 55)). I do 15 reps (from standing to a point where the tops of my thighs are parallel to the ground), and 90 pounds seems like a lot. I feel like if they were any heavier, I'd risk pulling a muscle in my back when getting them off the floor. How many reps do you do?

    So how is it that you are using over four times as much weight as I. Am I that much of a weenie?
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  16. #16
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Age 60...During October to December last year, I was doing 10 sets of 10 on the inclined leg press machine as well as other other leg / core exercises twice per week. I would follow-up the weight workout immediately with intervals on the trainer. My seenk feel great.

    Since I did 100 repetitions at 150 pounds, does that mean I get credit for 15,000 pounds?
    If you were doing 100 repetition sets, you were working on your aerobic system and that doesn't count for any credit. Put some more plates on the bar or risk being a "girly man". Lifting sets using big muscles shouldn't go over 25 reps and those using smaller muscle groups shouldn't go over 20 reps.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

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    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet View Post
    If you were doing 100 repetition sets, you were working on your aerobic system and that doesn't count for any credit. Put some more plates on the bar or risk being a "girly man". Lifting sets using big muscles shouldn't go over 25 reps and those using smaller muscle groups shouldn't go over 20 reps.
    As you know, we have a Governor who has been known to criticize "girly men". And he has been known to pump some serious iron.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  18. #18
    Third World Layabout crtreedude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAMMER MAN View Post
    I don't do leg extensions what so ever, but many still do for osme reason.

    dead-lifts,free weights going all the way down into a squat style position then performing the rest of the movement will implement more than just squats as it is a compound movement, it encompasses the full body.
    I have found them too be very beneficial and afterwards using a leg press with more weight.

    each to thier own though
    Mine is to help load a truck with seedlings - seems to be more than adequate. If that isn't enough, there is broken field walking, i.e. marking around the fields of trees and inspecting. I walked 6 kilometers in 6 hours doing this Monday, brutal.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    As you know, we have a Governor who has been known to criticize "girly men". And he has been known to pump some serious iron.
    It's my understanding that due to funding issues California is conducting accross the board cuts to all state programs. One interesting fact is that they may be are reducing the "Grizzly State" to the "Girly State", so don't change your workouts just yet.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet View Post
    It's my understanding that due to funding issues California is conducting accross the board cuts to all state programs. One interesting fact is that they may be are reducing the "Grizzly State" to the "Girly State", so don't change your workouts just yet.
    Pecs are usually the first to go in a bad economy.


    .

  21. #21
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    Just saw this today: http://tinyurl.com/c2zw57
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  22. #22
    Banned. DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dellphinus View Post
    Just saw this today: http://tinyurl.com/c2zw57
    Maybe vampires do have a scientific basis?

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    Senior Member Terrierman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dellphinus View Post
    Just saw this today: http://tinyurl.com/c2zw57
    Nice article, thanks for posting it.
    It's all downhill from here. Except the parts that are uphill.

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    Exercise correctly

    HI,
    Its very easy to do weight bearing exercise wrong, and that can really inflame joints.
    I was doing some heavy squats on a sled and a more experienced lifter came up and said keep your heels planted on the floor when you lift if you arch you will sprain your back.
    another problem is the arthritis make some joint ends rough like a file and if you grate the bones across the cartlidge or other bones it can actually do alot more damage.things like deep squats, and the quad lift with heavy weights can actually damage joints.
    So exercise can be double edge sword if done correctly its great and if your alittle off you may tear up some of your joints.
    Nautilis was designed to rehab injured players and can be done with less sets, but it does require training and good practice.

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